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#717733 - 12/04/17 10:45 pm Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
VANDOLSON Offline
BritBike Forum member
VANDOLSON  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
Windsor, Virginia, USA
The only wheel I ever tried lacing was a new 21” front
wheel on my 1975 Harley Sportster (way before
computers and internet). After Four agonizing hours I gave
up and took it to an Ace wheel lady for lacing and
truing (she did the work for one on the HD dealerships
in Hawaii).

I’m older now (more patient) and want to lace a front
wheel that I have. Have a good used hub and new rim UK
made stock chrome rim and stainless spokes that are
for my hub and rim combo.

Watched YouTube videos and have my stock front
wheel to also go by. I think I can lace the wheel.
I am going to also try truing it. I saw a truing stand on
eBay (a Pit Posse PP2799) which to me looks
good (to me) for $69. Anyone use this? I am open to any
suggestions on a stand that will work for my stock
Conical front wheel (WM2x19). Also any tools I need.

Thanks!

Van

Last edited by VANDOLSON; 12/04/17 10:47 pm.
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#717740 - 12/05/17 12:22 am Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,385
kevin roberts Online content
fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content

fefsa

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,385
ohio, usa
i've swapped conical rims before just by taping the existing spokes together where they cross, and unscrewing all the spoke heads, pulling the whole thing out in one piece and just poking the spokes into the new rim holes.

if you take your hub and set it within the rim, then poke the spokes into place and tape them together where they cross to keep them together, you might get it right enough to put all the spoke heads on and screw it up tight.

i just set the wheel on its axles between two cinderblocks and spin it to true it up.


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#717750 - 12/05/17 1:19 am Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,539
DMadigan Offline
BritBike Forum member
DMadigan  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,539
ca, us
Use the forks as a truing stand. You will have to centre the wheel in the forks anyway. Prop the front of the frame on blocks so the wheel rim is off the ground and go for it.
The OIF front is easy to lace with cross one on the brake side and cross two on the other. The rim might be marked for the brake side (Bucannan's does). If not take a close look at the nipple holes, the set facing one side will be closer to the rim dish than the other. That is the brake side (steeper spokes). Put all the brake side spokes in first because once the left side are in you will have trouble getting the right inside spokes past them.
Look at the right side nipple holes, one set will point further outboard, those are for the spokes that lay on the outside of the flange. Put in all of one then the other brake side spokes then do the same for the left side. A little truing and you are done.
If you are using stainless spokes and nipples be sure to use the anti-seize that should have come with the spokes.

#717870 - 12/06/17 12:02 am Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
VANDOLSON Offline
BritBike Forum member
VANDOLSON  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
Windsor, Virginia, USA
Thanks. I have the Buchanans stainless spokes. The rim is not from them. Came with nipple grease. Using my front fork makes sense. That way I get the correct offset.

#717930 - 12/06/17 4:13 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,001
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,001
Boston, Massachusetts
Check the kit nipple size against the hole in the rim. The stock rims had .250" holes while Buchanan often put .281" (oriental standard) nipples in their kits.

Check the spoke holes in the hub. Buchanan spokes for this kit are a larger gauge lacing 37-3818[/url]wheel than stock. This means the hub on the off brake side will have to be drilled out to allow the spokes to be offered to the hub.

Lacing 71-73 BSA/Triumph Wheels


#717939 - 12/06/17 5:35 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: John Healy]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
VANDOLSON Offline
BritBike Forum member
VANDOLSON  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
Windsor, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by John Healy
Check the kit nipple size against the hole in the rim. The stock rims had .250" holes while Buchanan often put .281" (oriental standard) nipples in their kits.

Check the spoke holes in the hub. Buchanan spokes for this kit are a larger gauge lacing 37-3818[/url]wheel than stock. This means the hub on the off brake side will have to be drilled out to allow the spokes to be offered to the hub.

Lacing 71-73 BSA/Triumph Wheels


Thanks for the heads up. I grabbed the different spokes
In the kit I got and tested them out. Luckily they all fit
correctly in the hub. Something to be aware of that I
didn’t know! I am using a CWC rim from one of the
Vendors here. I think I am okay. Won’t know until I
lace the wheel. Luckily I have the stock front Dunlop
wheel that was on the bike to use as a guide when I
go to lace the new wheel. Thank you so much. Appreciated!

Best Regards,

Van

#717946 - 12/06/17 7:04 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,001
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,001
Boston, Massachusetts
Did you click on the link on how to lace that rim??


#717949 - 12/06/17 7:25 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,452
gavin eisler Online content
BritBike Forum member
gavin eisler  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,452
argyll. scotland, uk
i rebuilt mine last year, used the forks as the truing gauge, if you get the pattern right and only snug the nipples a turn or so at a time it just about builds itself, mine took very little tweaking to come true.


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#717951 - 12/06/17 7:41 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,001
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,001
Boston, Massachusetts
Yes, the key to efficient wheel building is to do the truing while all of the spokes are finger tight!

Lubricate BOTH the threads and the underside of the nipple where it will bear on the rim!!!!

Bring nipples up so end of nipple leaves a couple of spoke threads showing.

Take a couple of turns on each nipple until some of the nipples come up against the rim and stabilize the rim. You don't want rim to be able to shake around.

At this point pre-true both offset, wobble and hop with only the nipples that are supporting the rim.

When the rim is true, go around to all of the remaining loose nipples and bring them up against the rim. Be careful not to apply pressure to cause the rim to move. You just want them just touching the rim.

Then take a turn around the rim loosening any nipples that have gone tight. The idea is to get an even tension on all of the nipples while they are still able to be turned with your fingers.

Take an other look at teh offset, hop and wobble and make an small adjustments remembering to loosen first. You want to end up with all of the nipples finger tight, all tensions equal and the rim true.

Then go around the rim taking a couple of turns on each nipple until they are proper tension. Remember when doing this you may have to loosen the odd nipple to keep the rim true.

Last edited by John Healy; 12/06/17 7:43 pm.

#717970 - 12/06/17 10:43 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 366
Red Lapierre Online content
BritBike Forum member
Red Lapierre  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 366
Upstate NY
Before you take apart to several pics so you can look back at what you started with.


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#718081 - 12/07/17 9:02 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: John Healy]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
VANDOLSON Offline
BritBike Forum member
VANDOLSON  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
Windsor, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by John Healy
Did you click on the link on how to lace that rim??


Yes. Thanks. Great link. I did insert the spokes as noted in the link.
My Buchanan spokes were not oversized for some reason and fit with no
need to drill out the hub holes?! Very nice of you to include the link. Really
needed it!

Best regards,

Van

#718085 - 12/07/17 9:15 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: John Healy]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
VANDOLSON Offline
BritBike Forum member
VANDOLSON  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
Windsor, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by John Healy
Yes, the key to efficient wheel building is to do the truing while all of the spokes are finger tight!

Lubricate BOTH the threads and the underside of the nipple where it will bear on the rim!!!!

Bring nipples up so end of nipple leaves a couple of spoke threads showing.

Take a couple of turns on each nipple until some of the nipples come up against the rim and stabilize the rim. You don't want rim to be able to shake around.

At this point pre-true both offset, wobble and hop with only the nipples that are supporting the rim.

When the rim is true, go around to all of the remaining loose nipples and bring them up against the rim. Be careful not to apply pressure to cause the rim to move. You just want them just touching the rim.

Then take a turn around the rim loosening any nipples that have gone tight. The idea is to get an even tension on all of the nipples while they are still able to be turned with your fingers.

Take an other look at teh offset, hop and wobble and make an small adjustments remembering to loosen first. You want to end up with all of the nipples finger tight, all tensions equal and the rim true.

Then go around the rim taking a couple of turns on each nipple until they are proper tension. Remember when doing this you may have to loosen the odd nipple to keep the rim true.


Excellent! Great post! VERY informative! Question on correct tension. I use to hit the spokes
Listening for the same “ping” sound. But that was on my spoked wheels on my bikes. This
Was to check for any loose spokes. With doing a new wheel assembly is there a certain
Tension and how do I check they are tensioned correctly? Thanks again.

Best regards,

Van

#718095 - 12/07/17 11:13 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,001
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,001
Boston, Massachusetts
There is no one answer to the actual torque required. It varies with brand, model, hub and the rim being used. There are Harley's where the hub is so fragile you can only tighten the spokes to 25 inch pounds in fear of it breaking while most of the big Harley's require 80 inch pounds plus.

I have a Buchanan spoke torque wrench that I use for reference. With a CWC rim I am comfortable tightening until the spoke ring is even around the whole wheel. The CWC rim for the 1971-73 conical Triumph rim comes in around 35 to 40 inch pounds. The key is you want all the spokes to have an even tension. This makes for a stronger wheel and is much easier to true than one where the tension varies around the rim.

How do I know where to stop tightening? When I tighten a nipple and the tension doesn't increase, I know it is time to stop. In fact it is probably a little bit past that point. Use your ear if you haven't got the feel. If you tighten a nipple, and the tone doesn't change frequency higher when you 'ding", the spoke is you can get it without getting into trouble. If the cross spokes touch be sure to push the offending spoke away from the one you are checking by tone.

The more even you get the tension the tighter you can get the nipples without getting into trouble! If you are tightening a nipple and the rim doesn't move it is time to stop!!!


#718137 - 12/08/17 4:58 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: John Healy]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
VANDOLSON Offline
BritBike Forum member
VANDOLSON  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
Windsor, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by John Healy
There is no one answer to the actual torque required. It varies with brand, model, hub and the rim being used. There are Harley's where the hub is so fragile you can only tighten the spokes to 25 inch pounds in fear of it breaking while most of the big Harley's require 80 inch pounds plus.

I have a Buchanan spoke torque wrench that I use for reference. With a CWC rim I am comfortable tightening until the spoke ring is even around the whole wheel. The CWC rim for the 1971-73 conical Triumph rim comes in around 35 to 40 inch pounds. The key is you want all the spokes to have an even tension. This makes for a stronger wheel and is much easier to true than one where the tension varies around the rim.

How do I know where to stop tightening? When I tighten a nipple and the tension doesn't increase, I know it is time to stop. In fact it is probably a little bit past that point. Use your ear if you haven't got the feel. If you tighten a nipple, and the tone doesn't change frequency higher when you 'ding", the spoke is you can get it without getting into trouble. If the cross spokes touch be sure to push the offending spoke away from the one you are checking by tone.

The more even you get the tension the tighter you can get the nipples without getting into trouble! If you are tightening a nipple and the rim doesn't move it is time to stop!!!


Great! Got the idea! Going to take the plunge. When done I think I will take it to a local Motorcycle
shop that laces and trues wheels to check. Just for peace of mind and see how I did and if not
correct what I should have done. VERY MUCH APPRECIATED YOUR ADVICE AND TIME TO
ANSWER ME!

Again, Best regards,

An

#718266 - 12/09/17 8:42 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 66
Mito Offline
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Mito  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 66
Rangiora, New Zealand
Hi, Im restoring a 71 Firebird. Both wheels have been dismantled for refurbishment. I have photos and offset specs of the wheels before disassembly if required. A truing stand does make the job easier. Cheers, Stu


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#718280 - 12/09/17 10:45 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: VANDOLSON]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,001
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,001
Boston, Massachusetts
Buchanan uses nothing more than what can be described as an axle in a vice.


#718454 - 12/11/17 9:01 pm Re: Lace and True 1971 OIF front Conical Wheel [Re: Mito]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
VANDOLSON Offline
BritBike Forum member
VANDOLSON  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
Windsor, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by Mito
Hi, Im restoring a 71 Firebird. Both wheels have been dismantled for refurbishment. I have photos and offset specs of the wheels before disassembly if required. A truing stand does make the job easier. Cheers, Stu


Thanks Stu! I have my complete stock wheels (original Dunlops) still assembled. Using
another front hub and rim to lace up. So have a wheel to go by. Thanks for the offer.

Best regards,

Van


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