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Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #636100
01/20/16 6:24 pm
01/20/16 6:24 pm
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They are steel and looking at one on one of my engines I would say they were painted a dull silver, maybe the same color as the centermount oil tank?


Bill B...


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Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Boomer] #636119
01/20/16 9:35 pm
01/20/16 9:35 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,838
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Magnetoman Online content OP

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Originally Posted by Boomer
They are steel and looking at one on one of my engines I would say they were painted a dull silver, maybe the same color as the centermount oil tank?
Bill, this is great information. Thanks very much.

On my way home today I detoured ~20 miles out of my way to pick up a gently used Kendon "Stand-Up Middleweight" lift that should go a long way toward easing the current gridlock in my garage. Its horizontal extent is considerably less than my HF lift, which was essential for my purposes. Also, although it is designed to stand on end and take up very little space when not in use, I don't expect that will happen very often.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #636143
01/21/16 1:28 am
01/21/16 1:28 am
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 217
Victoria, B.C. Canada
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My 54' Golden Flash has an alloy cover plate but who knows the originality of it; I've had the bike for many years, in storage, waiting to be restored while collecting many of the missing parts.

[Linked Image]


Trackmaster T140
69' Lightning
69' Victor
66' Royal Star - Watsonian
58' Super Rocket
54' Golden Flash
Rickman Zundapp
Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #636207
01/21/16 1:20 pm
01/21/16 1:20 pm
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,802
Comox BC Canada
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Gordo in Comox Offline
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Comox BC Canada
So I see we have steel and alloy. I made an alloy cover for one of my GS covers but have no solid info of what the original covers were made from. This weekend I will be getting together with some of the BSA old timers and will find out what I can about the originals.

Gordo

[Linked Image]


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Gordo in Comox] #636209
01/21/16 1:32 pm
01/21/16 1:32 pm
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Posts: 104
united kingdom
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Hi. I still have one of these new old stock. Sorry but I dont want to part with it, however I can measure it for you.
Originally it was cadmium plated but they do look good in chrome. The outer dia. is 2.004", the thickness is 0.675" in steel of course. The 2 holes are about 7/32"
Hope that is enough info?. Pat A.
Oh, and the original bolts had hexagon heads drilled for wiring.

Last edited by mr.moto; 01/21/16 1:33 pm.
Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: mr.moto] #636211
01/21/16 1:41 pm
01/21/16 1:41 pm
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Magnetoman Online content OP

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Guys, I can't that everyone who responded enough. But, one guy (who I won't name unless he says it's OK) I'd like to thank even more than enough. He wrote to say he has a NOS one complete with screws and washer that he will be sending me. This Forum is great.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #636212
01/21/16 1:51 pm
01/21/16 1:51 pm
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,802
Comox BC Canada
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MM: Is it your birthday?

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #636332
01/22/16 12:26 am
01/22/16 12:26 am
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 569
Kansas City area
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Kansas City area
PS same as G.S. Catalina and Super Flash/Road Rocket
67-0714 plate
67-0715 gasket
67-0716 bolt (same as 27-4258 gear box inspection cover screw but has hole for safety wire)
65-9163 sealing plate bolt safety wire

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: BritTwit] #640166
02/14/16 8:52 pm
02/14/16 8:52 pm
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Magnetoman Online content OP

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Work on the Spitfire was interrupted because I was overcome with the urge to fly to Australia to ride a 350 c.c. Gold Star for a day. Thanks very much to the Forum member who set this up and for his hospitality as well as that of his neighbor, and to the several other Forum members as well who I met while I was on the other side of the known universe.

Despite that trip, some progress still was made recently. Thanks to the generosity of one of the Forum members who lives half a world closer a new old stock cover plate with the two screws drilled for lockwire arrived. This is shown below temporarily attached to a Gold Star timing cover for making the photograph.

[Linked Image]

Acquiring this plate may not seem like much, but it definitely helps move things forward. It's remarkable how much time has to be spent on little things, and in the end they are just as critical to the overall success of a restoration like this one as are the big things. Again, thanks to the benefactor who also is a Forum member.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #677051
12/09/16 3:08 pm
12/09/16 3:08 pm
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Orygone
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This thread should be sticky noted to the top of these postings.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Boomer] #677163
12/10/16 12:31 pm
12/10/16 12:31 pm
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Magnetoman Online content OP

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Originally Posted by Boomer
This thread should be sticky noted to the top of these postings.
Admit it, you wrote that to shame me into getting back to work on the Spitfire, didn't you? It's amazing how fast a year goes by... I hadn't realized until today that the Spitfire thread has the 2nd highest number of views in the Projects forum, less than 20% behind TR6Ray's Triumph restoration that has been here twice as many years. Given the interest, I better get busy again.

In my defense, my acquisitions of BB and Catalina Gold Stars diverted much of my attention this past year (as if I needed the aggravation, earlier this week UPS lost the Catalina's front brake being returned from Vintage Brake...). Anyway, when the time comes I'm going to count the thread on rebuilding a 6-spring clutch towards the Spitfire, as well as rebuilding its K2F magneto even though I'll post that as another Appendix to the magneto thread.

I plan to waste as much of the Christmas break as possible riding motorcycles rather than working on them, but I should be back to work on the Spitfire's gearbox by the end of December.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #682965
01/29/17 12:28 am
01/29/17 12:28 am
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I've been doing a bit to get the Spitfire restoration moving again. There are five bearings in the gearbox and I have NOS bearings to use. However, the following should be of interest to others who aren't so lucky and who need to source modern replacements that have the correct specifications.

There isn't much useful information on this topic on line, and a good fraction of what I could find is incomplete or wrong, so I spent a fair amount of time to track down contemporary catalogs of Hoffmann, Norma-Hoffmann, R&M, Skefko (SKF) and Torrington, as well as I've used relevant information from catalogs issued within the past 20 years by FAG, INA, MRC, NTN, SKF and Torrington-Fafnir. I'll soon post a more extensive version of this that also includes Gold Star engine and clutch bearings as well as additional technical information.

The bearings used by BSA are listed in Service Sheet 703 and the part numbers are in Spares catalogs:

_________________________BSA___Hoffmann__ R&M______Skefco____ Fischer__ Torrington
Gearbox:

Sleeve gear mainshaft _______ 24-4065 ___ 135 _____ LJ35 ______ 6207 ______ 6207 _____ -----
Outer mainshaft ___________ 24-4217 ___ LS8V2 ___ LJ3/4 ______ RLS6______ LS8 _______ -----
Inner housing layshaft ______ 42-3074 ____ --- _______ --- _______ --- ________ --- ____ M-11121-OH
Outer layshaft _____________ 42-3075 ____ --- _______ --- _______ --- _______ --- ____ B-1212-OH
RRT2/SCT2 sleeve gear _____ 42-3135_____ ---_______ --- _______ --- ________ --- ____ B-1314-OH

R&M formerly Ransome & Marles
R&M, Hoffmann, and Pollard merged to form RHP, later purchased by NSK. The RHP brand is still used by NSK.
SKF formerly Skefko (the name of the UK's SKF subsidiary)
FAG formerly Fischer (stamped F.B.C. on the original bearings)

While bearings with the same or similar brands as were originally used are manufactured today the trademarks no longer can be relied on to indicate the country of manufacture.

Needle Bearings

Although full complement needle bearings were originally used it is common for aftermarket motorcycle parts suppliers to stock caged bearings having roughly half the number of rollers. According to engineering formulas in a c1970 Torrington catalog, under identical conditions such caged needle bearings will have only 21% the lifetime of full complement bearings of the same size and quality.

A Torrington B-1112-OH can be used on the layshaft instead of an M-11121-OH, but the former is an open-ended bearing so it would need a plug on the outside.

The Oil Hole (OH) is a modification to the basic Torrington needle bearing and is marked on the packaging but not on the bearing itself.

Ball and Roller Bearings

Since there was no industry standard for labeling at the time it is essential that the manufacturer as well as the part number be specified when looking for a replacement. For example, Hoffmann used RMS11 for a roller bearing (drive side Gold Star engine) but SKF used that same code for a ball bearing.

There are a large number of codes to designate various features of modern ball bearings, but the following suffixes are relevant and fairly common:

Radial Internal Clearance (also called Diametrical Clearance)

This is the most important specification since the wrong clearance will mean the difference between excess noise (too loose) and rapid bearing wear (too tight). The current system uses ABEC grades of fit (sometimes listed as AFMBA) that somewhat confusingly are 1, 2, 0, 3, 4, and 5 in order of increasing looseness. Verbal descriptions of some of these fits in a modern Torrington-Fafnir catalog are 'Snug' (2), 'Medium' (0), 'Loose' (3) and 'Extra Loose' (4), with 0 also commonly termed 'Normal'.

As a modern SKF catalog says, "As a general rule, ball bearings should have an operating clearance that is virtually zero." Since installation involves a press fit of ~0.002" into Al this causes the diameter of the outer track to decrease by approximately 50% of the interference fit (e.g. by ~0.001" if the housing were exactly 0.002" smaller than the bearing). This has to be compensated for by using a bearing having the correct internal clearance prior to installation. If you feel any resistance when turning the inner race after installation the initial clearance was too small and the bearing will fail prematurely in service.

On the original ball and roller bearings used by BSA the diametrical clearance was denoted by circles lightly polished or stamped on the face of either the inner or outer race. According to a 1968 Skefko (SKF) catalog there is a one-to-one correspondence between the "circle" clearance grades and the "C" grades now used on modern bearings:

C1 ___ ---- ___________ Less than C2
C2 __ one circle _____ Less than normal clearance (such a bearing almost certainly would be too tight once installed)
CN __ two circles ___ Normal clearance (typically not indicated on a modern bearing; All five original gearbox sleeve gear ball bearings I examined had two circles)
C3 __ three circles ___ Greater clearance than normal (three circles; this almost certainly would be too loose, especially if the bore is worn)
C4 __ four circles ___ Greater than C3 (almost certainly would be too loose)
C5 __ ----- _________ Greater than C4

As can be seen from the next photograph the circles are lightly polished or stamped on the stamped face of the outer ring of Hoffmann bearings and on the inner ring of R&M. These circles are very light and can be difficult to see unless inspected closely with a magnifying glass.

[Linked Image]
The two images in the above composite are at the same magnification showing the full width of the Hoffmann outer race (top) and R&M inner race (bottom) of Gold Star timing side roller bearings.

Tolerance

This is not the same as clearance. Tolerance classes refer to allowed variations from nominal of the diameter, width, eccentricity, etc. Three systems for denoting tolerance of ball bearings have been commonly used in recent decades (another, RBEC, for roller bearings):

DIN _____ ANSI ___ ISO
P0 ______ ABEC 1 ___ 0 _____ Normal tolerance (typically not indicated on the bearing)
P6 ______ ABEC 3 ___ 6 _____ Higher tolerance than P0
P5 ______ ABEC 5 ___ 5 _____ Higher tolerance than P6
P4 ______ ABEC 7 ___ 4 _____ Higher tolerance than P5

Evidence I've collected suggests the gearbox bearings were of no higher tolerance than ABEC 1.

Seal Type (none of the original Gold Star bearings had seals):

Codes for seals are not universally used by all manufacturers, but the following illustrate some of the common types available.

RS Rubber seal on one side
2RS Rubber seals on both sides
Z Metal seal on one side
ZZ Metal seals on both sides

Cage Type

These codes are not universally used by all manufacturers, but illustrate some of the common types available.

F Steel cage
M Brass cage ball guided (all five original gearbox bearings I examined have ball-guided brass cages)
MB Brass cage, inner ring centered
MA Brass cage, outer ring centered

The specifications and descriptions below are from contemporary R&M, Skefko (SKF) and Torrington catalogs. These specifications are for the bearings that were originally supplied to BSA so will be of use to anyone searching for modern replacement bearings that are equal or better:

ID _______ OD ___ width _____________ Static Capacity ___ Dynamic Capacity ____ Max. rpm
Gearbox Sleeve Gear Ball (single row rigid ball journals, ball-guided brass cage, light type)
35 mm __ 72 mm __ 17 mm _______________ 3050 lbs. _________ 4400 lbs. ___________ 10,000

Gearbox Outer Mainshaft Ball (single row rigid ball journals, ball-guided brass cage, light type)
3/4" ____ 1-7/8" ___ 9/16" ________________ 1430 lbs. _________ 2200 lbs. ___________ 16,000

Inner Housing Layshaft Needle (full complement, closed cup with oil hole)
7/8" _____1-1/16" __ 0.85" (0.66" depth) ______ 2530 lbs. ________ 3530 lbs. ____________ 4200

Outer Housing Layshaft Needle (full complement, open end with oil hole)
3/4" ______ 1" _____ 0.75" _________________ 3180 lbs. ________ 3790 lbs. ____________ 5500

RRT2/SCT2 Sleeve Gear Needle (full complement, open end with oil hole)
1-1/16" _ 1-3/16" __ 0.875" __________________ 3880 lbs. _______ 4960 lbs. ____________ 5200

Note: A rear wheel makes ~750 turns/mile. With a 46T rear sprocket and 16T gearbox sprocket the sleeve gear ball bearing will turn 46/16 x 750 = ~2150 turns/mile. So, even with this relatively low gearing, at 120 mph (2 miles/min.) the bearing will be turning at ~4300 rpm, which is well below its rated maximum.

Last edited by Magnetoman; 01/29/17 7:07 pm. Reason: added photo and text showing clearance circles
Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #697446
06/05/17 6:58 am
06/05/17 6:58 am
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 623
Oregon
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Oregon
Great info.... thanks! The bearing nomenclature is a minefield and terms seem to differ greatly between manufacturers.. Doesn't help that companies like Locate Bearings show only a box (not the bearing) and calling them for details/info is useless as well. Lots of times it's just rolling the dice and hoping what they send is what's needed. Any idea what the RHP designation 'V3' refers to? I was told that 'c3' and 'v3' specs are interchangeable but you never know with this. Online sellers are claiming equivalent to the old specs and charging tons without knowing the product is wrong /inferior. Not all but some.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Dana_twin] #697630
06/06/17 6:36 pm
06/06/17 6:36 pm
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Magnetoman Online content OP

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Originally Posted by Dana_twin
Any idea what the RHP designation 'V3' refers to? I was told that 'c3' and 'v3' specs are interchangeable but you never know with this.
V and C are completely different specs. C gives the amount of radial clearance deliberately built into a ball bearing to ensure that once installed in a housing and at operating temperature the working clearance will be as close as possible to zero. Because press fits of bearings of the sizes we care about might be ~0.002", the 'C' clearances are of order ~0.001". That is, sitting on the table the inner race could be moved radially back and forth by this amount with respect to the outer race

A bearing in a given tolerance class, e.g. P6, has different allowable manufacturing tolerances for each of the relevant dimensions other than the difference in diameters of the race tracks themselves (outside diameter, bore diameter, inner ring width, etc). For these dimensions, the V tolerances could be as large as ~10 micrometers (0.0004") for our bearings. Because most buyers probably don't want to spend the time to individually specify the acceptable V tolerances on each dimension they're lumped together in the P tolerance classes. If you pay for a higher P class the individual V tolerances are better than you would get in a lower P class.

What this means is you could order a bearing that has a very small radial clearance (C1) when it is on the table but with sloppy tolerances on the other dimensions (V6). Or vice versa. But, even if the clearance was fine on the table, if the dimensional tolerance of the bearing's OD was in the direction of being large, the installed clearance could end up less than you wanted.

Stated differently, the clearance (C) of a bearing is a precisely manufactured amount of radial difference to allow for the installed, working environment, while tolerance (V) is the amount of allowable manufacturing deviation of various dimensions from the nominal specification. Because C is a clearance it is always a positive amount. Because V is a tolerance (i.e. +/-) a given dimension could be greater or less than the nominal value it is supposed to have.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Dana_twin] #697662
06/06/17 11:29 pm
06/06/17 11:29 pm
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Posts: 659
San Rafael, Ca.
BikeVice Offline
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Originally Posted by Dana_twin
Any idea what the RHP designation 'V3' refers to?


The V rating is a vibration rating, the P ratings are precision ratings and as explained above the C ratings are clearance ratings. There's really no relation between the 3. I believe the vibration is measured as noise and a bearing with a high V number might have rounder balls and/or a better surface finish than a bearing with a lower V number.

Eric


1971 T120RV (R.I.P.)
1973 T140V/TR7
1993 Ducati 900 SS
Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: BikeVice] #697672
06/07/17 12:48 am
06/07/17 12:48 am
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Originally Posted by BikeVice
The V rating is a vibration rating,
I have 13 bearing catalogs (I just counted them). When I went though them all a few months ago I didn't find any that deviated from the radial clearance definition I quoted in an earlier post for C0, C1, etc. However, V doesn't seem to be as universal. Although most catalogs are pretty bad at making it easy to find definitions an INA catalog has a 2-page list of "symbols and units of measurements. It defines V1, V2 as "Load factors for periodically varying bearing load."

The important thing is, 'C' is the very-important radial clearance that will determine if your engine will have a knock, the bearing will wear out too fast, or all will be well. Any symbol other than C is not the radial clearance no matter what a retailer might say.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #697683
06/07/17 2:16 am
06/07/17 2:16 am
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San Rafael, Ca.
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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by BikeVice
The V rating is a vibration rating,
I have 13 bearing catalogs (I just counted them). When I went though them all a few months ago I didn't find any that deviated from the radial clearance definition I quoted in an earlier post for C0, C1, etc. However, V doesn't seem to be as universal. Although most catalogs are pretty bad at making it easy to find definitions an INA catalog has a 2-page list of "symbols and units of measurements. It defines V1, V2 as "Load factors for periodically varying bearing load."


Well I don't have 13 bearing catalogs, nor would I want them, but a 5 minute Google search confirmed that the V rating is a common vibration classification. Testing is done on a BVT-1, whatever that is, and the classes are V, V1-V4, with V4 being the smoothest.

One of many confirmations:

http://www.microbearing.com/list.asp?catid=392&typeid=0

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
The important thing is, 'C' is the very-important radial clearance that will determine if your engine will have a knock, the bearing will wear out too fast, or all will be well. Any symbol other than C is not the radial clearance no matter what a retailer might say.


Agreed

Eric


1971 T120RV (R.I.P.)
1973 T140V/TR7
1993 Ducati 900 SS
Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #697700
06/07/17 6:02 am
06/07/17 6:02 am
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I have always taken the V as vibration class, but as the old bearings in our engines are pre ISO bearing stds the markings have to be read based on the manufacturer and what they were doing at the time. So as these are mainly RHP we need an RHP catalogue from the 50/60's and its section on markings.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: kommando] #697750
06/07/17 5:22 pm
06/07/17 5:22 pm
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Originally Posted by kommando
as these are mainly RHP we need an RHP catalogue from the 50/60's and its section on markings.
As I wrote in an earlier post in this thread "I spent a fair amount of time to track down contemporary catalogs of Hoffmann, Norma-Hoffmann, R&M, Skefko (SKF) and Torrington,..." Fischer (FAG) is now on that list, so I have catalogs from the 50/60s for all bearings used by BSA at the time, and the information I was able to extract from those is in that earlier post.

I won't take the time to go through them again at this point to check, but I don't remember vibration being a specification discussed in any of them so apparently it wasn't a factor they were too concerned with 50 years ago. At least, not for general bearings. Formulas in the catalogs for calculating expected lifetimes do not contain terms to incorporate the vibration due to tiny deviations from perfection.

More generally, none of those catalogs contains enough information to identify all the markings on the bearings I have. Some of the markings are still a mystery to me. At least one catalog instructs the reader to contact the company for additional technical information not contained in the catalog.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #697758
06/07/17 7:04 pm
06/07/17 7:04 pm
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At Glacier Bearings we also fed only what the application engineers wanted to customer to know and told them to contact the application engineers for anything more. The thinking was if you told them too much then they either would no longer need a bearing maker, or make a complete balls up plus the danger of telling all your secrets to the competition. As it was with the little information they were given they still, if left to their own devices, balls it up, Ford wanted a corrosion coating for storage which we gave them in the form of a zinc flash which was sacrificial and gone in the first few hours of running, a few years later they started to fail the bearings after engine tests saying the zinc layer had gone DOH!!! They were told the reason and it was accepted, and then 5 years later the cycle would start all over again with more failures.

As V3 is a marking I see a lot on BSA and Triumph mains is a high V rating and added to the cost, the bearing supplied must have been specified to have that rating, we will never know why now but its seen too often to be a coincidence.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #716646
11/26/17 12:30 am
11/26/17 12:30 am
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 126
MA
Here is what looks like a very interesting thread that has been ruined by Photobucket. It would be great if people could go back and edit their posts and fix their pictures. Add ~original after the last .jpeg or .png and the [/img]

example: [img]http:\\photo$&£€#!?#.jpeg~original[/img]

Tedious, but I fixed a few of mine.


1966 BSA Lightning
1967 Triumph "Choppa"
Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Nick H] #716654
11/26/17 3:21 am
11/26/17 3:21 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,838
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,838
U.S.
Originally Posted by Nick H
It would be great if people could go back and edit their posts and fix their pictures...Tedious, but I fixed a few of mine.
There are two problems with your suggestion. I just tried it and it didn't work, and even if it did it would have been too tedious and time consuming to go through all my posts to do this even if there were some assurance Photobucket wouldn't block the fix in a few days or weeks. I need a reliable, permanent fix before I spend time to get images to work again.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #716675
11/26/17 10:09 am
11/26/17 10:09 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,667
Scotland
kommando Offline
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kommando  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,667
Scotland
This would be best achieved using a script to do it automatically, I will raise it with Morgan.

Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #756516
11/18/18 10:05 pm
11/18/18 10:05 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,838
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

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Magnetoman  Online Content OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,838
U.S.
I had thought that I stopped work on the Spitfire when my Ariel arrived 18 months ago, which was a good excuse for not having worked on it since then, but looking back through this thread I see that I've done essentially nothing since November of 2015. So, while waiting for an Ariel valve blank to arrive, and since nothing can possibly go wrong working on several projects in parallel, I decided to ramp my effort on the Spitfire back up. Besides, no longer facing a hard deadline to have the Ariel fully functional means there's no longer any urgency with it.

When I last worked on the Spitfire I needed to finish refurbishing the gearbox and reassemble it. The open issue was how to make the case look as good as new, but not overpolished and better than new. I have HF to etch the surface but, since then, discovered that a Gunk+diesel degreasing mixture can do a remarkably good job. So, today the three pieces that make up the gearbox housing went into that solution to soak for a week.

OK, OK, this is a pretty passive development to claim as "work," but haste makes waste.

Attached Files SCT2_degreaser.jpg
Re: 1957 BSA Spitfire Scrambler [Re: Magnetoman] #756558
11/19/18 2:32 pm
11/19/18 2:32 pm
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 261
NYC & Upstate NY
A
AML Offline
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AML  Offline
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A

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 261
NYC & Upstate NY
I've been looking forward to the revival of this thread!

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