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#715951 - 11/20/17 9:16 pm No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA?  
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VANDOLSON Offline
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VANDOLSON  Offline
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Windsor, Virginia, USA
Had a nice ARD or was it a Morris mag? It wasn’t a Joe Hunt. It replaced the whole timing cover installed on my 1965 TR6 back in the day. Much better than the stock two points setup. Could kick it over in 2-3 kicks cold even in the winter at 6000 ft and higher. A low battery was never an issue (much) with a mag setup (my 1959 T120 had a mag and generator and quickly learned why “we” use to call Lucas “The Prince of Darkness”).

I don’t see anyone making a mag for my 1971 Tbolt. I read an article about adapting the 1970 and earlier Joe Hunt timing cover/mag to use on the 71-72 OIF BSA but surely someone has found a better way to use a Joe Hunt or another mag set up? The article was a number of years ago and mentioned Joe Hunt was working on one for my year bike and then can’t find any more on it and there isn’t one listed either at Joe Hunt.

Not really interested in converting to electronic ignition. Pondering going to the earlier timing cover and clutch set up but thought I would ask about other mag options.

Thanks!

“Van”

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#716026 - 11/21/17 9:08 am Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: VANDOLSON]  
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BSA_WM20 Online content
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For a while it was very fashionable to fit a Joe Hunt which bolted directly to where the points cover used to go.
These of course broke off very regularly.
Britich Cycle Supply used to market an extended inner cover with a projection foreward to take a 3 bolt Triumph magneto.
Again costs a lot more than it was worth but being in front of the cylinder less prone to damage.
Our 2nd President ran one for decades but oddly enough I don't have a photo of it.

OTOH the std A 65 points system works very well and provided you do 1 hour of electrical maintenance a year they are very reliable.

I gather you are trying to make some sort of custom bike.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#716140 - 11/22/17 12:20 am Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: BSA_WM20]  
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VANDOLSON Offline
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VANDOLSON  Offline
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Windsor, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
For a while it was very fashionable to fit a Joe Hunt which bolted directly to where the points cover used to go.
These of course broke off very regularly.
Britich Cycle Supply used to market an extended inner cover with a projection foreward to take a 3 bolt Triumph magneto.
Again costs a lot more than it was worth but being in front of the cylinder less prone to damage.
Our 2nd President ran one for decades but oddly enough I don't have a photo of it.

OTOH the std A 65 points system works very well and provided you do 1 hour of electrical maintenance a year they are very reliable.

I gather you are trying to make some sort of custom bike.


Thanks! Interesting. No restoring bike to completely stock. Going to run the stock ignition (rectifier and zenor diode, capacitors, coils and points) but would run a mag if one was available just for simplicity.

Best Regards,

Van

#716436 - 11/24/17 1:08 pm Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: VANDOLSON]  
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Andy Higham Online content
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Andy Higham  Online Content
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How is another piece of equipment requiring a belt or chain drive and bearings, needing periodic adjustment simpler than the stock points system?
The magneto would probably not have an automatic advance retard meaning faffing about with a manual lever.
Points are simple. Electronic ignition is even simpler


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc grasstrack
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#716577 - 11/25/17 4:31 pm Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: Andy Higham]  
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VANDOLSON Offline
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VANDOLSON  Offline
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Windsor, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by Andy Higham
How is another piece of equipment requiring a belt or chain drive and bearings, needing periodic adjustment simpler than the stock points system?
The magneto would probably not have an automatic advance retard meaning faffing about with a manual lever.
Points are simple. Electronic ignition is even simpler


Not to be contrary but there are advantages to a magneto ignition. My 1965 TR6 was my only
transportation for my Ex and I back in the day (no car). It was very important that bike could
kick over and get us home (when out riding in the mountains and up/down California, Nevada,
Oregon, and even Washington State. Plus I had to be able to get to work and grocery
shopping, &c. Since a mag needs no battery the bike is going to start (unless I didn’t keep
up maintenance on the points and plugs. Which I did). The battery was only for lighting. But
I eliminated it by using a battery eliminator set up. Sure only had lights when the bike was runnng but
Never cared/needed the lights to work with the bike off.

Chrome won’t get you home but a mag will.

Complication? Nope. No worries about a low or dead battery. IE needs a battery and has to have
A certain voltage to work. So even a low battery can keep you from starting your bike.

Granted some mags had no advance retard. To make up for it you adjusted the timing. I had
Friends with Joe Hunts on their Harleys (I ran one on my 1975 Harley Sportster) and starting was
Never an issue. Bikes ran well.

I ran an ARD on my TR6 vice a Joe Hunt as it had electronic advance. It cost more than the
Joe Hunt but the electronic advance sold me on it. Ran it 4-years with no problems and never
had the mag “recharged”.

Now my 1959 T120 mag and generator was another issue.

Another popular ignition set up back then was to run a Honda CB 750 coil. You could run
A single set of points vice two. Sure it fired on the exhaust stroke but no problems. This
Was the exact set up I had prior to going with the mag with the battery elminator.

The whole point is less components less chance of problems less maintenance. Prior
To all that I use to carry spare points, zenior diode, regulator, capacitors, spark plugs,
along with clutch and throttle cables, master link, bulbs, hose clamps, hoses, tube patch
kit, electrical and duct tape, differnt carb jets and tools to almost rebuild my whole
Triumphs on the side of the road. Believe me, I used them all at one time or another
when stuck somewhere. When riding from Fresno California up the Sierra Nevada mountains
(10000 ft or so) you had to change jets out.

Sorry for the long post but being able to kick my bike over and start anywhere at any time
Without relying on a battery (and Lucas electrics) was worth it to me back then. Even though I have
No problems with maintaining stock electrics on English bikes (years of experience although
this is my first BSA and not my last) I was askng about why no mag option for my 1971. If it
Was available I would run it and then again I might not. Restoring the BSA is my hobby. I will
Be buying more English bikes to restore in my retirement. I do everything myself with the
Exception of lacing and truing wheels which I am thinking of learning. I paint, have soda blaster,
Blasting cabinet, British tools for everything, engine mounts, lift, well everyhing to restore
Motorcycles. Moving on from restoring Harleys. That was getting old and sold my last
Harley (been riding 48 years with 32 of those Harleys).

Again sorry about the long post. Mags are great and cool in my opinion.

Best Regards to you!

Van

#716582 - 11/25/17 4:48 pm Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: VANDOLSON]  
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VANDOLSON Offline
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VANDOLSON  Offline
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Posts: 28
Windsor, Virginia, USA
Should add to the above. A single Honda 750 coil
had 2 leads off of it (for 2 spark plugs). The battery
eliminator used a Big Capacitor and some circuit....
don’t remember off the alternator and the lights
were wired off of that. Don’t quote me as it was a
long time ago... I was 19-years old when I had the
1965 TR6 and it is very hard to recall for me now. I
think I have it correct in my memory, but....lots of
Other bikes since then.). Could be confused.

Oh, still had to carry all the other stuff, but eliminated
The stock electrical stuff. Just had spark plugs and points.

Van

#716819 - 11/27/17 12:36 am Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: VANDOLSON]  
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BSA_WM20 Online content
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Van,
The reason for no magnetos is as previously stated, the stock system with the 6 CA points plate works exceeding well thus there was no demand for something to replace it.
When the RITA was first introduced the sales were not particularly good to the point that RITA went out backwards.
While the Rita was better & gave a much better spark at 8000 rpm, only Nick & his mates were interested in running their A65's above 7000 rpm.
Boyer made a cheaper version which suited the pockets of lazy owners being a set & forget system.
However the demand was still not particularly great till now days when BSA's have gone from daily transport to weekend toys, so the batteries are always flat ( promoting demand for batery tenders ).

IF there was a demand for magnetos, then the 3 magneto conversions would have survivied & prospered, but they did not & I have not seen one for sale since the 80's.
One can argue the relative merits of either the kettering ignition vs the magneto ignition till one goes blue in the face but the fact remains there is just about zero demand for magnetos thus not enough sales to make it profitable for anyone to make a conversion kit.

Last edited by BSA_WM20; 11/27/17 12:38 am.

Bike Beesa
Trevor
#716828 - 11/27/17 1:57 am Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: VANDOLSON]  
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Magnetoman Online content
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Originally Posted by VANDOLSON
Mags are great and cool in my opinion.
+1
Originally Posted by VANDOLSON
there is just about zero demand for magnetos thus not enough sales to make it profitable for anyone to make a conversion kit.
Also +1

#716841 - 11/27/17 5:13 am Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: BSA_WM20]  
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Shane in Oz Online content
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Shane in Oz  Online Content
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Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
IF there was a demand for magnetos, then the 3 magneto conversions would have survivied & prospered, but they did not & I have not seen one for sale since the 80's.
One can argue the relative merits of either the kettering ignition vs the magneto ignition till one goes blue in the face but the fact remains there is just about zero demand for magnetos thus not enough sales to make it profitable for anyone to make a conversion kit.


You could argue that the Electrex ignition setups are external coil magnetos, as per the flywheel magnetos on 1970s trail bikes.

The external magneto kits like ARD and Joe Hunt seem to be a bit thin on the ground, but Joe Hunt conversions are still available - but not for the 1970-on BSA unit twins.

#716855 - 11/27/17 9:55 am Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: BSA_WM20]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Trevor,

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
When the RITA was first introduced the sales were not particularly good to the point that RITA went out backwards.

confused

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Boyer made a cheaper version which suited the pockets of lazy owners being a set & forget system.
However the demand was still not particularly great till now days

confused

Regards,

#716863 - 11/27/17 11:42 am Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: BSA_WM20]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
VANDOLSON Offline
BritBike Forum member
VANDOLSON  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
Windsor, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Van,
The reason for no magnetos is as previously stated, the stock system with the 6 CA points plate works exceeding well thus there was no demand for something to replace it.
When the RITA was first introduced the sales were not particularly good to the point that RITA went out backwards.
While the Rita was better & gave a much better spark at 8000 rpm, only Nick & his mates were interested in running their A65's above 7000 rpm.
Boyer made a cheaper version which suited the pockets of lazy owners being a set & forget system.
However the demand was still not particularly great till now days when BSA's have gone from daily transport to weekend toys, so the batteries are always flat ( promoting demand for batery tenders ).

IF there was a demand for magnetos, then the 3 magneto conversions would have survivied & prospered, but they did not & I have not seen one for sale since the 80's.
One can argue the relative merits of either the kettering ignition vs the magneto ignition till one goes blue in the face but the fact remains there is just about zero demand for magnetos thus not enough sales to make it profitable for anyone to make a conversion kit.


Thank you so much for that insight! Understand. Great
Response to my question. Great forum here!

Best regards,

Van

#716883 - 11/27/17 3:07 pm Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: VANDOLSON]  
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DMadigan Offline
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DMadigan  Offline
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ca, us
Why not fit an ET ignition? It is essentially the same as a magneto except the point, high tension coil and magnet generator are separate instead of in a single unit. No housing sticking off the side of the motor and readily available parts.

#717032 - 11/28/17 10:18 pm Re: No magneto for 71-72 OIF BSA? [Re: DMadigan]  
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VANDOLSON Offline
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VANDOLSON  Offline
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Posts: 28
Windsor, Virginia, USA

Originally Posted by DMadigan
Why not fit an ET ignition? It is essentially the same as a magneto except the point, high tension coil and magnet generator are separate instead of in a single unit. No housing sticking off the side of the motor and readily available parts.


Fair enough question. Almost all my Harleys
were Electronic Ignition. Love it. No problems with
it. I was riding long distance so liked the maintenance
free part and reliability. Never had one go bad.

However due to two back surgeries and arthritis I just
Can’t ride longer than an hour. Reason I sold my last
Harley. Since I was 10 years old I have loved motorcycles.
Could hardly wait for Cycle Magazine came out each
month. Motorcycles have really been my life and
Passion. I always chose having a bike first over a car
If I could not afford both.

Since I can’t really ride anymore, doesn’t mean I won’t
own and work on motorcycles.

So decided to drop working on Harleys and start restoring
Vintage British bikes. This BSA has been a learning
Experience for me. I figured $2000-$3000 to restore.
LOL....EVERYTHING ON THIS BIKE HAS HAD TO
BE REPLACED. Every nut, bolt, and screw too. Easier
to list what has not been replaced. Those would be the
Frame, swingarm (well replaced the bushings), fork lower
legs, rear brake rod, both hubs, chain guard, side covers,
Gas tank (though painting), shift lever, rear brake pedal,
Engine steady, tool box, battery tray, coil mounts, carb
(though rebuilding and add back the choke and lever),
Engine lower end (rebuilding top end with new pistons,
rings, valve stems, &c), that’t it. Everything else is new.

I am now at or will be at $5000 not including the cost of
the bike.

Who would have thought? Obviously not me. Wasn’t
until I tore down the bike that I found out how really
bad it was.

Soooooo, my plan was/is to sell the bike and buy
another to restore. Selling will be a few thousand
dollars lost. IF I keep it will remain stock ignition,
(but would run a mag if there was one as I really
like mags. But there isn’t and since it will be ridden
short distances not going to spend more on an
Electronic ignition then). Points are fine with me.
Selling it and adding Electronic ignition would just
add to my loss. I bought the stock coils, rectifier,
zenor diode, points, and new AAU, wiring harnesses,
first thing before tearing down the bike and knowing
how bad it was.

Best Regards,

Van


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