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Stainless or zinc cover screws #715288
11/15/17 11:07 pm
11/15/17 11:07 pm
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NJ USA
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Mori55 Offline OP
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What do you guys use for the side cover screws stainless or zinc plated. Reason I’m asking is years ago I rebuilt a flathead ford engine and used stainless. I had a hell of a time removing since they galled in the cast iron engine block.
Am I better going with Allen head or using posi drive screws ?

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Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715301
11/16/17 12:54 am
11/16/17 12:54 am
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Posts: 5,913
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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I use stainless but always apply a little anti seize to the threads.
I stay away from allen head types as they don't look right and are too easy to over tighten. Case screws don't have to be as tight as most folks think.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715305
11/16/17 2:32 am
11/16/17 2:32 am
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 247
USA, WA state
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russrudolph Offline
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Anti seize everything! Exhaust manifolds on my 8v71 diesel, stainless bolts without anti seize galled had to have bolts drilled out, salt water and air helped galling I am sure.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715306
11/16/17 2:32 am
11/16/17 2:32 am
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Posts: 247
USA, WA state
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russrudolph Offline
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Anti seize everything! Exhaust manifolds on my 8v71 diesel, stainless bolts without anti seize galled had to have bolts drilled out, salt water and air helped galling I am sure.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715325
11/16/17 8:58 am
11/16/17 8:58 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,965
Scotland
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Stuart Offline
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Hi,

Originally Posted by Mori55
What do you guys use for the side cover screws stainless or zinc plated.

I've been using stainless Allen heads since the early 1980's; case screws into aluminium alloy, never used any sort of anti-seize, never a problem whether on Brit or Japanese bikes, daily riders or projects. Digressing slightly, I first used stainless bolts on my first T160's header clamps; again, never a problem despite not using anti-seize (never even heard of it then) although I now assemble 'em with a little Copaslip.

For case screws, I'm pretty-certain stainless UNC or BSF Pozidrives with the correct "Filister" (sometimes spelled with a double "l") heads - to fit in case counterbores - have simply never been available. Years ago, there used to be a fastener shop in north-west London, the boss could turn up some very weird fasteners in all sort of materials; if he couldn't find 'em, as I say, n/a.

Otoh, standard Allen head is the same o.d. as Filister so fits in the counterbores. Digressing slightly again, many, many years ago, the boss of the aformentioned fastener shop found me some stainless UNC Pozidrive panhead screws, which I laboriously turned down to make Filister-lookalike heads for a 'conkers' restoration; if anyone knows of a source of more, please say.

Allen keys come with a short end and a long end; if you use the short end for leverage when tightening, you have to be both very strong and pretty clumsy to overtighten a case screw?

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Stuart] #715332
11/16/17 9:34 am
11/16/17 9:34 am
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Posts: 727
angeles city, rp
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jaycee Offline
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i also highly recommend antiseize any time a stainless fastener is used. it will certainly help prevent seizing due to galvanic corrosion. to be fair tho i antiseize ANY fastener that is installed in a dis similar metal. its cheap insurance and can save untold misery, Permatex sells different types for different metals a zinc compound for aluminum a general purpose copper compound and a stainless steel variant. ive used the general purpose copper on everything with NO problems. all conform to mil-a-907. best sourced through an industrial supply like w.w.grainger or mcmaster carr for the specialized variants. just remember if you use it on anything that is TORQUED to reduce the torque 10% if anti seize is not specified but. DONT use it on tapered shafts that rely on a "wedge mate" locking system!

Last edited by jaycee; 11/16/17 9:36 am.
Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: jaycee] #715335
11/16/17 10:18 am
11/16/17 10:18 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,965
Scotland
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Stuart Offline
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Hi,

Originally Posted by jaycee
antiseize
will certainly help prevent seizing due to galvanic corrosion.

Mmmm ... but Mori The O.P. is asking about screws to use to mount engine side covers on his Triumph(s), where we're talking about aluminium alloy. If he has or gets "galvanic corrosion" apparently between stainless or plated screws and the ally, he has another problem.

To be clear, galvanic corrosion (aka "electrolytic corrosion" and "bimetallic corrosion") can only occur between reactive metals in an electrolyte. Both the aluminium castings and certainly stainless steel are alloys; specific to both aluminium and the chrome component of stainless, their oxides are inert and do not react even in the presence of an electrolyte. Those specific oxides also form airtight seals, that prevents further oxidisation if undisturbed,

However, also to be clear, I'm not recommending against anti-seize if using it floats your boat. Stainless is something I've used a great deal for approaching forty years, not only on motorcycles but also cars, lorries, boats, houses; I haven't used a non-stainless fastener in years. Ime, the most common thing to seize with other metals (not just stainless) is the shonky ally mixed with other things that messes up the aluminium's inherent anti-corrosion properties. Then even anti-seize doesn't.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715338
11/16/17 11:31 am
11/16/17 11:31 am
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Posts: 405
NJ USA
M
Mori55 Offline OP
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One more question if I use posi drive screws , were can I get the correct screwdriver ? I’ve looked but can’t seem to find one. Also I have a impact driver I’ve used to remove them but can’t find a posi drive bit for that either.
I’ve been looking at posi drive screws on th British fasten website.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715341
11/16/17 12:28 pm
11/16/17 12:28 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,734
Running from demons in WNY
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I bought a Posi drive at the local Lowe's .....Their Kobalt brand tools are decent quality...I bought it to replace a lost Snap On posi drive bought 35 years ago for use on other than Brit bikes..I just found the Snap On ,they call it Pozidriv, a registered trademark, I believe first used in Europe...
I often buy Allen head screws at a local hardware store,usually with a black oxide finish..None of my bikes are original and the fast disassembly is nice on the race bike engines. ...Screws are installed dry or with a bit of oil on them if previously used...A cordless impact used for removal and a T handle used for installation. I consider the timing side cover part of the engine rigidity and tighten the screws firmly..
What Stuart says; I have drilled out many original type screws but never a SS screw. threaded into aluminum...


I ride junk
Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715380
11/16/17 6:33 pm
11/16/17 6:33 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,913
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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Many years ago, I never heard of something called Pozi-drive, I only knew that your normal #2 Phillips would ruin the case screws in a Triumph in no time at all. So, I took a #3 Phillips and ground off the tip.
That sucker is still in my toolbox after 45 years and still works just as good as the hardened Pozi-drive bits I have.
[Linked Image]002 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152305986@N08/][/url], on Flickr
These days, a lot of tool kits come with a bit driver and a bunch of bits. Look on the side of the bit. If says PZ2 or similar, then it's a Pozi-drive bit. Phillips will have P1, P2 etc on them usually.
Cheers,
Bill

Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 11/16/17 6:37 pm.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715403
11/16/17 7:28 pm
11/16/17 7:28 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,252
arkansas
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leon bee Offline
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I always look for and use the most original looking screws. Just a little bias I have, even on a custom. Many pozidrive driver tips will be marked PD, you want PD3. I've gotten them at True Value hardware stores. Just bought a real good handle driver off eBay- I just searched pozidrive 3. When you get these they work great and never slip in a good screw.

Old ones are always a mess because back in those days we all thought they were #3 Phillips.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715420
11/16/17 8:09 pm
11/16/17 8:09 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 811
Skudeneshavn Norway
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Stein Roger Offline

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Skudeneshavn Norway
Received a box of Pozidrive fasteners today, looks really good. Also a set of engine to frame bolts in stainless, perfect.

https://britishfasteners.com/index....ozidrive-phillister-head-screw-sets.html

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715421
11/16/17 8:18 pm
11/16/17 8:18 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,958
South cone
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reverb Online content
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South cone
...as Stuart is mentioning, you do not really need anti seize lube to use SS screws in the Aluminum cases. The problem is between SS stuff; like spokes and terminals.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Stein Roger] #715457
11/17/17 12:04 am
11/17/17 12:04 am
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Posts: 405
NJ USA
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Mori55 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Stein Roger
Received a box of Pozidrive fasteners today, looks really good. Also a set of engine to frame bolts in stainless, perfect.

https://britishfasteners.com/index....ozidrive-phillister-head-screw-sets.html

Originally Posted by Stein Roger
Received a box of Pozidrive fasteners today, looks really good. Also a set of engine to frame bolts in stainless, perfect.

https://britishfasteners.com/index....ozidrive-phillister-head-screw-sets.html

They have two sets one 30.00 and the other is 60.00 can’t find what the difference is.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715495
11/17/17 7:56 am
11/17/17 7:56 am
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Posts: 811
Skudeneshavn Norway
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Stein Roger Offline

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They sell zinc plated and stainless versions of some kits. The expensive ones seems to be zinc plated. Odd...

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715505
11/17/17 11:48 am
11/17/17 11:48 am
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Posts: 405
NJ USA
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Mori55 Offline OP
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None of the descriptions say stainless on the Pozi drive kits for the Triumph. I’m calling them today to find out.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715508
11/17/17 1:17 pm
11/17/17 1:17 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 811
Skudeneshavn Norway
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Stein Roger Offline

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You are right my friend, it doesn't say. The engine to frame kit I ordered was specifically stainless. I somehow made up my mind that the casing kits were too. Oh the joys of getting old.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715509
11/17/17 1:17 pm
11/17/17 1:17 pm
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Posts: 196
home of grits and gnats...Sout...
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slofut Offline
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Stainless on stainless can gall easily without lube. I had a large suspension bolt on a golf cart, ran it up with an air ratchet to check spacing etc... didn't make it home. It actually galled before it got tension on it in the middle of the bolt, wouldn't turn on or off and had to hacksaw the bolt! I was pissed, never had that happen. But I've always used stainless fasteners, cut my teeth working at a marine center when I was fourteen 'til I was out of high school. Learned a lot about drilling stainless out of aluminum. Just me but I always use never seize.


'68 Bonnie
'74 CL360
trail 70's and minitrails
Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715520
11/17/17 3:45 pm
11/17/17 3:45 pm
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Naarfuk, UK
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Tigernuts Online content
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I've had very serious galling with zinc plated bolts in stainless nuts. Lower fork yoke pinch bolts, so 3/8" diameter. I had assembed them so my own fault. I had read stuff on forums warning about stainless in stainless and thought this combination would be OK. I didn't have any problems undoing the stainless/stainless fasteners but the pinch bolts literally welded themselves solid within half a turn and I had to put fork tubes on the spanners for enough leverage to shear them off. I've used copperslip ever since, on just about everything.


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715535
11/17/17 6:29 pm
11/17/17 6:29 pm
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Posts: 5,913
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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Unless someone is making Pozi-drive stainless fillister head screws for our bikes, the ones I've seen are actually Phillips heads, and the ones I've made I've used panhead phillips screws and shaved the sides down. No matter. I have all the tools.....

In case you were wondering, Pozi-drive screws have identification marks on them in the form of little dash marks between the cross head depressions.

I use anti seize on everything because the mechanic who taught me the right way to do things said never assemble anything dry.

In the first days of lacing and truing stainless steel spokes and nipples, there was a lot of grief going around with them. They would invariably gall before full torque was achieved even with the crap lube they sent along with the kits. That evolved to where now there isn't much of a problem. Better lubes and perhaps better metals.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715538
11/17/17 6:38 pm
11/17/17 6:38 pm
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 405
NJ USA
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Mori55 Offline OP
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I found the difference in the Pozi fasteners from British fasteners. One kit was 30.00 and one was 60.the the cheaper kit is fully threaded and the othe has the shank on it. I don’t think it would matter either way if they’re all the correct length. Any opinions on this ?

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715542
11/17/17 7:23 pm
11/17/17 7:23 pm
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Isle of Wight, UK
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koan58 Offline
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Assuming the shanks are the correct depth for the case, shanks are best, as original and intended to put a case in its proper place.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715543
11/17/17 7:24 pm
11/17/17 7:24 pm
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kommando Offline
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I prefer the shank as it gives better location accuracy for the cover, but some suppliers have been known to make the shank too long so the head never tightens the cover but British Fasteners will not make that mistake.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: kommando] #715546
11/17/17 7:47 pm
11/17/17 7:47 pm
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Mori55 Offline OP
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I ordered a shank set from the Bonneville shop. Just a couple dollars more.

Re: Stainless or zinc cover screws [Re: Mori55] #715547
11/17/17 7:48 pm
11/17/17 7:48 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,734
Running from demons in WNY
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I believe the timing cover on a unit 650-750 is located by the two hollow oil feed dowels....


I ride junk
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