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Bearing material #715107
11/14/17 8:44 pm
11/14/17 8:44 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,662
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Online content OP
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I have to make new layshaft and sleeve gear bushings for a BSA A10 transmission and am not sure of what material to use. When I made the timing side bush I used a C93200 alloy as its pressure lubricated. I'm wondering if perhaps the transmission bushes might be better made from oil impregnated alloy instead due to plash lubrication? I've never worked with it before so I'm not too sure about its workability or durability in a transmission. Any and all pointers greatly appreciated.


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

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Re: Bearing material [Re: MikeG] #715109
11/14/17 9:00 pm
11/14/17 9:00 pm
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Wolverhampton, U.K
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Simon Ratcliff Offline
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The sleeve gear and other bushes on the Norton AMC 'boxes use the sintered/porous bronze so should be OK.


Norton Mk3 Commando.
Re: Bearing material [Re: MikeG] #715115
11/14/17 10:08 pm
11/14/17 10:08 pm
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kommando Online content
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You need the pores of the sintered material to stay open to allow the oil to enter, so use sharp single point tooling that cuts rather than rubs.

Re: Bearing material [Re: kommando] #715153
11/15/17 2:15 am
11/15/17 2:15 am
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New Hampshier USA
MikeG Online content OP
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Originally Posted by kommando
You need the pores of the sintered material to stay open to allow the oil to enter, so use sharp single point tooling that cuts rather than rubs.


I read about this aspect of oilite bronze. How well does it take to a reamer rather than single point tooling?


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Bearing material [Re: MikeG] #715170
11/15/17 6:26 am
11/15/17 6:26 am
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Wolverhampton, U.K
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Simon Ratcliff Offline
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I think reaming may close the pores in the material. Are good quality gearbox parts no longer available for A10's?


Norton Mk3 Commando.
Re: Bearing material [Re: Simon Ratcliff] #715225
11/15/17 4:51 pm
11/15/17 4:51 pm
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New Hampshier USA
MikeG Online content OP
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Originally Posted by Simon Ratcliff
I think reaming may close the pores in the material. Are good quality gearbox parts no longer available for A10's?


I saw no bushings offered on SRM's web site, and even if they did the shafts will be dressed up to a smaller diameter and reaming required after installation so I might as well make my own. It will give me something to do on those long snowy winter nights grin


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Bearing material [Re: MikeG] #715233
11/15/17 5:44 pm
11/15/17 5:44 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,329
Scotland
kommando Online content
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A plain lead/copper bronze would be your best bet.

Some light reading for you.

http://pc-media.de/books/Technik/Handbooks%20For%20Designers%20And%20Engineers/Tribology%20Handbook%20(2nd%20Edition)/11987_02a.pdf

Re: Bearing material [Re: MikeG] #715262
11/15/17 8:29 pm
11/15/17 8:29 pm
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New Hampshier USA
MikeG Online content OP
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this stuff then. What I figured on using to start with before I confused myself with thoughts of oilite



Bearing Bronze (C932), a/k/a SAE 660
Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 35,000
Yield Strength, psi 20,000
Elongation in 2" 10%
Brinell Hardness 65
Chemistry Copper (Cu) 81.0 - 85.0%
Tin (Sn) 6.3 - 7.5%
Lead 6.0 - 8.0%
Zinc 2.0 - 4.0%

Last edited by MikeG; 11/15/17 8:30 pm.

1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Bearing material [Re: MikeG] #715320
11/16/17 7:27 am
11/16/17 7:27 am
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Wolverhampton, U.K
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Simon Ratcliff Offline
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Just about any alloy containing permutations of a copper, zinc, tin, iron, carbon etc mix is going to be suitable for plain bearings - especially if it's called bearing bronze. Advantage of the 'oilite' plain bearings is where lubrication maybe marginal e.g sleeve gear.

Last edited by Simon Ratcliff; 11/16/17 7:30 am.

Norton Mk3 Commando.
Re: Bearing material [Re: MikeG] #715340
11/16/17 12:17 pm
11/16/17 12:17 pm
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Scotland
kommando Online content
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If you go to page 4 of the PDF I posted to you will see

Fatigue strength and relative compatibility of some bearing alloys and you can see the relative properties of 10%/22% and 30% lead bearing materials, the higher the lead the better the properties for fatigue strength and resistance to seizure. A 23% leaded bronze with an overlay plate was used by Vandervell in their shell bearings and called VP2, for a bush materials in gearboxes/swingarms and small ends they used VP10 with a 10% lead content as did Glacier under SY. So I would try to get a material with a higher lead content of 10% if possible but if not then 6 to 8% will work.

Re: Bearing material [Re: Simon Ratcliff] #715398
11/16/17 7:15 pm
11/16/17 7:15 pm
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Originally Posted by Simon Ratcliff
I think reaming may close the pores in the material.


Possible, but camshaft bushes are regularly line reamed and broached with a steel ball. Doesn't seem to hurt porosity of the sintered bronze?


Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: Bearing material [Re: MikeG] #715439
11/16/17 10:03 pm
11/16/17 10:03 pm
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Wolverhampton, U.K
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Simon Ratcliff Offline
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Wolverhampton, U.K
Info on machining 'oilite' bushes at www.oilite.com>bmp


Norton Mk3 Commando.

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