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#714863 - 11/13/17 12:06 pm T160 compression  
Joined: Jul 2017
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wheller151 Online content
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wheller151  Online Content
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Palmerston North, New Zealand,
Any one know what the compression should be on a T160.
I tested my compression today and I only get 90, 85 and 87 but the bike still runs sweet as a nut but it seems a bit low.
My Bonney T140v hits around the 145 and 147 so thats about the correct mark so Im thinking the gauge must therfore be reading ok.

Cheers


T140v 1977 Export American Spec.
T160 Trident
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#714920 - 11/13/17 11:02 pm Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
Joined: Mar 2006
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htown Online content
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htown  Online Content
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Posts: 1,164
Magnolia, TX
Need some more info. Was engine hot or cold. Has the bike been sitting for a while and this is first fire up after the layup? I think I would take it for a good ride give it some stick and recheck. After that I would check the valve adjustment.

Last edited by htown; 11/13/17 11:04 pm.

1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
#714993 - 11/14/17 6:39 am Re: T160 compression [Re: htown]  
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wheller151 Online content
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wheller151  Online Content
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Palmerston North, New Zealand,
Thse fgures are after a run with engine nice and hot.
The cold engine figures are about 5psi less on each cylinder


T140v 1977 Export American Spec.
T160 Trident
#715021 - 11/14/17 1:46 pm Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
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Stuart Online content
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Scotland
Hi,

Originally Posted by wheller151
I only get 90, 85 and 87 but the bike still runs sweet as a nut

Had the same. Needed a rebore. frown

Hth.

Regards,

#715405 - 11/16/17 7:31 pm Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
Joined: Mar 2006
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htown Online content
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htown  Online Content
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Magnolia, TX
Since it is consistent across the cylinders I would say it's likely worn bores/rings instead of valves. Does it burn any oil or have any blue smoke? Squirt some oil into the cylinders through the plug holes and redo the compression test. If the readings go up significantly it is a pretty definite sign it is the bore/rings. Rebore and new pistons and rings would probably restore lost performance. On the other hand, you probably aren't hurting the bike by riding it as is as long as you aren't fouling the plugs with oil. I have a BSA that has compression around a 100 psi per hole. I could overhaul the top end but it doesn't smoke or use excessive oil so for now I just ride it and enjoy it. It doesn't see many miles in a year. So depends on how much you ride it and when you want to redo the top end. Might as well do the valves while you have it apart.

Last edited by htown; 11/16/17 7:45 pm.

1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
#715491 - 11/17/17 7:12 am Re: T160 compression [Re: Stuart]  
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wheller151 Online content
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wheller151  Online Content
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Palmerston North, New Zealand,
Odear cheers mate I sort of thought that migt be the case.
Was there a marked improvent in performance after you had yours done and what sort of compression figs do you get after the rebore.

Last edited by wheller151; 11/17/17 7:44 am.

T140v 1977 Export American Spec.
T160 Trident
#715494 - 11/17/17 7:40 am Re: T160 compression [Re: htown]  
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wheller151 Online content
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wheller151  Online Content
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Palmerston North, New Zealand,
cheers htown
I hear what your saying here and its another case of "if its not broke dont fix it."
I changed the plugs to the new varidian NGK BR8EIX and that fixed the fouling and oiling problem instantly. Amazingly the engine runs smoth and is better now than ever before so im a bit reluctant now to strip it down now.

However could you just advise me a bit more as i dont want to get left with a smoking heap up out on the ranges all on my own. I really hate pushing my bikes home, its degrading doing the last mile, lol.

As it gets worse over time (I only do about 2000k a year) and the compression i presume will continue to drop, then should I presume the compression will just contine to drop and drop and the oiling and plug fouling will get worse till I guess she wont start any more.
Im happy and can work with that even to a push , just dont want anything catastropic to happen.

Last edited by wheller151; 11/17/17 7:45 am.

T140v 1977 Export American Spec.
T160 Trident
#715527 - 11/17/17 4:35 pm Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
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Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Scotland
Hi,

Originally Posted by wheller151
Was there a marked improvent in performance after you had yours done

Twenty-odd years ago, hard to remember ... smile

Originally Posted by wheller151
what sort of compression figs do you get after the rebore.

Long time since I checked but iirc around what you're seeing on your Bonny

Originally Posted by wheller151
its another case of "if its not broke dont fix it."

confused But it is broke ...

Originally Posted by wheller151
I changed the plugs to the new varidian NGK BR8EIX

confused Anything NGK suffixed "IX" has an iridium centre electrode.

Originally Posted by wheller151
could you just advise me a bit more

As above, it's broke. Just because it 'runs' doesn't mean it isn't broke. Depending on the mileage, history and the reason the compression pressures are that low, could be (likely) other things are worn, that a strip-down will reveal. Compression pressure is a diagnostic for a cylinder, nothing else. There are other parts in a triple engine for which the diagnostic of excessive wear is ...

BANG! facepalm

Hth.

Regards,

#715573 - 11/17/17 10:39 pm Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
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kevin roberts Online content
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ohio, usa
Originally Posted by Stuart
There are other parts in a triple engine for which the diagnostic of excessive wear is ...

BANG! facepalm

Hth.

Regards,


this is very true. rod bearings, for instance.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#715584 - 11/18/17 12:05 am Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
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htown Online content
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Magnolia, TX
First thing I would do is put an oil pressure gauge on it and see what you have for pressure going down the highway with the engine warmed up. This will tell you a lot about the condition of the bearings/bottom end. I have one of these. Don't worry about the address he is a very reliable vendor. What I like about it is that it uses a banjo fitting on one of the front galley oil plugs.
https://www.eBay.com/itm/TRIUMPH-T150-T160-BSA-ROCKET-3-OIL-PRESSURE-GAUGE-KIT-BLACK-FACE-INSTRUMENT/222455970921?hash=item33cb68bc69:g:dcEAAOxyeR9TGzpY&vxp=mtr

Last edited by htown; 11/18/17 12:07 am.

1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
#715742 - 11/19/17 11:10 am Re: T160 compression [Re: htown]  
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wheller151 Online content
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wheller151  Online Content
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Palmerston North, New Zealand,
Hi htown
this is a great idea and the oil pressure before I start taking the engine apart.


T140v 1977 Export American Spec.
T160 Trident
#715744 - 11/19/17 11:26 am Re: T160 compression [Re: Stuart]  
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wheller151 Online content
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wheller151  Online Content
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Palmerston North, New Zealand,
Hi Stuart
many thanks and yes I agree it needs another look.

htown suggested I check the oil pressure first which I will do this week.
If its low then its going to be a very expensive full rebuild job for me.

The odd thing is the motor was sent way for a rebuild by the previous owner only two years ago, and I would have thought they would have done a rebore as well as doing the mains.
All very strange to me but hopfully the oil pressure result should be a good indicator as to what I need to do next.


T140v 1977 Export American Spec.
T160 Trident
#715745 - 11/19/17 11:33 am Re: T160 compression [Re: kevin roberts]  
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wheller151 Online content
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wheller151  Online Content
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Palmerston North, New Zealand,
OMG What a picture and hope it wasent terminal for the bike.
Enough to give a guy nightmares.........
Looks like a lot of road rash as well on the bike and trust you came out of it ok.

That would have been a big job but trust all is well now with the bike


T140v 1977 Export American Spec.
T160 Trident
#715747 - 11/19/17 11:46 am Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
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kevin roberts Online content
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ohio, usa
nope. clutch in, coasted to a stop. oil everywhere.

numbers matching original 74. still contemplating its future.

if it comes back it will have an oil pressure gauge.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#715819 - 11/19/17 7:39 pm Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
Joined: Feb 2008
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Tridentman Online content
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Tridentman  Online Content

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New Jersey USA
Kevin--as you know I have an orphanage for Tridents.
If you want to get rid of the bike as is then please PM me.
HTH

#715898 - 11/20/17 1:47 pm Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
Kevin, blowups with aluminum auto engines can generally be repaired by the usual welding techniques..Then machining the parts back to spec and perhaps cosmetic work on the repair to make it less visible...But the extent of the damage sometimes prevents repairs....From what I see the Trident crankcase might be able to be welded nicely...But if main bores are knocked out of alignment it's not a matter of line boring like an auto engine...if you're lucky, maybe it looks worse than it is......I see a few Trident crankcase sections on eBay for reasonable money...But mixing up parts on these engines might not be the best...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#715902 - 11/20/17 2:44 pm Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
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kevin roberts Online content
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dunno. we're talking crank, rods, maybe cams, maybe head . . . if the bearing bores are damaged then i imagine the motor is history, economically.

i don't want to take it apart until i have a reasonable expectation of a repair or engine swap. too many of these ended up parted out as basket cases because someone went in and couldn't follow through with the plan.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#715903 - 11/20/17 2:44 pm Re: T160 compression [Re: Hillbilly bike]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,799
kurt fischer Online content
#irideslow
kurt fischer  Online Content
#irideslow

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,799
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Kevin, blowups with aluminum auto engines can generally be repaired by the usual welding techniques..Then machining the parts back to spec and perhaps cosmetic work on the repair to make it less visible...But the extent of the damage sometimes prevents repairs....From what I see the Trident crankcase might be able to be welded nicely...But if main bores are knocked out of alignment it's not a matter of line boring like an auto engine...if you're lucky, maybe it looks worse than it is......I see a few Trident crankcase sections on Ebay for reasonable money...But mixing up parts on these engines might not be the best...



Jaye Strait (Britech New England) recently posted on FB re. welding up the cases on a TR6CV
https://www.facebook.com/JayeSStrait/

"The rod broke right underneath the RH piston it continued to run on the LH side crank spinning broken rod poking holes all way around. Literally sawed the engine in half"

Scroll down to Nov. 4 post for full description and 40 pics.

Looks like a "blank check" kind of repair and rebuild.

Last edited by kurt fischer; 11/20/17 3:02 pm.

Kurt
1968-70-71 Triumph TR6R Bitsa - 1969 Triumph TR6R - 1971 BSA A65L - 1973 Triumph TR5T
2005 Ducati MTS 1000S DS - 2012 Ducati Hyper 796 - 2014 Kawasaki ZX1000
#715905 - 11/20/17 2:57 pm Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
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Tridentman Online content
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Tridentman  Online Content

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New Jersey USA
WOW!---Kurt--thanks for posting.
That is what you call a blow up!
First time I stripped an engine I was 17 years old and had just bought a 1960 BSA A7 Shooting Star from my uncle.
After a couple of days the youthful temptation to see "what it will do" overcame me and I headed for the local bypass which was on a slope.
I came down--well tucked in---the speedo was up to about 80 and---BANG!----the drive side con rod came neatly through the crankcase.
A hole about 2" square.
Stripped the engine, had the case half welded in one of the local engineering works at a cost of a packet of 10 cigarettes and away it went.
Rode that bike for 9 years afterwards and for most of that time it was my only form of transport.
So--everything is possible I guess!

#716184 - 1 hour ago Re: T160 compression [Re: wheller151]  
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wheller151 Online content
BritBike Forum member
wheller151  Online Content
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Palmerston North, New Zealand,
Hi htown
so ive got an oil pressure gauge now but were to connect it to to give engine oil pressure is another matter.
I tried taking a line of the pressure switch port but that just about blew the gauge to bits as I think thats straight of the pump.
My manual says there is a blanking plug you can use in the crank case but that wont work as an on going connection only as a test point.
So my question now is where is the most logical place to take the feed from that would give an engine oil pressure.
I thought about putting a branch off the oil cooler line but thats on the return and im not certain this would be the best place.

Any ideas or pointers would be great


T140v 1977 Export American Spec.
T160 Trident


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