BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
  JWood Auction  
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Photo posting tutorial

Member Spotlight
Posts: 79
Joined: September 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
216 registered members (Adam M.), 1,819 guests, and 549 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Brian Ellery, Jon Andrews, Berni Ernst, johnguppy, michael morgan
9955 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
btour 190
koan58 100
Stuart 88
NickL 66
Popular Topics(Views)
437,160 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums33
Topics65,270
Posts632,147
Members9,955
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#714507 - 11/10/17 4:10 pm Kick Start Spring bonnie 750  
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 25
RGM Online content
BritBike Forum member
RGM  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 25
Surrey Hants borders UK
Hi, I have to reassemble the outer cover on my 750, I am a little unsure as to how to tension the kick start return spring correctly.
I know the casing/lever is offered up with the lever at about 9 o'clock position.
Can somebody help, the manual shows where the lever should be to engage the spring on the shaft but not much help where to then site the lever in relation to the outer casing before hooking it on the peg and winding some tension on to it so as to offer it up to the engine.
Simple I am sure if you have done it before!

Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!
Membership Type! Free
Member
Premium
Member
Premium Life
Member
Vendor
Member
Site
Sponsor
Recognition No Premium Member Premium Life member (5 years) Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
Post commercial threads No No No Yes Yes
Custom title No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Upload avatar & photos No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Link avatar & photos Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Private Message Storage: 10 100 100 100 100
Length of signatures 255 600 600 600 600
Removes this very advert island between post 1&2 No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Price Free $12.90/year $105.00 No End
$55.00/5 years
$210.00/year
($17.50/month)
Email
Click on button >>
  Premium Member Premium Life member Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
#714518 - 11/10/17 5:09 pm Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: RGM]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,217
JubeePrince Online content
Life member
JubeePrince  Online Content

Life member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,217
Back on the mainland!
It's been awhile since I've had mine off, but f you have the spring and KS quadrant located correctly on the KS spindle, I think it's less than one full turn. Lever is somewhere around the 3 - 6 o'clock position before you wind it counter-clockwise and offer the cover to the gearbox...

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
#714557 - 11/10/17 10:04 pm Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: RGM]  
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 208
TR7RVMan Offline
BritBike Forum member
TR7RVMan  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 208
Pleasant Hill, California USA
Hi RGM, Installing trans outer cover this AM.

Assuming you have the spring on correctly & kick lever cotter bolt with nut on front side....

The static position of lever is dependent on the tension of spring you have. In my case the lever is about 11:00 oclock ish with no tension. Maybe 10:00.

Do not move shift lever at all or pawls can jump out. May be better to remove shifter lever to prevent accidents??

Anyway, wind kicker about 1 full turn counter clock wise until about 10:00. Offer cover to trans & look down & see where kicker gear is. You can see if you need to move lever up/down to allow cover to mate with trans. You can see fat stop peg & if gear is hitting case. I like to use those battery powered head lights as you can see the parts well & leaves both hands free.

It should go without force, but you need to counter hold cover to counter act the spring tension of kicker. A little of a balancing act. Do a dry run without sealant (or gasket) to get the feel of it. When you're lined up good & dowels are entering cover, bump cover with right hand to finish getting over dowels. Again verify dowels are lined up, don't use undue force.

Regarding kicker lever cotter bolt factory faced nut forwards. You can face it to rear if you want. Rear facing bolt will bias lever downwards a little. If lever is hitting your leg at stop lights, you may like this better??

Looking at cotter bolt direction, I don't know it really makes any difference as far as the grip it has on shaft. I've seen them work good both ways.

In every case the bolt must be in good condition & not have a step worn in the taper. A step can prevent the bolt from sliding fully home to properly grab shaft. This can wear shaft & lever.

I personally like to put a little oil on bolt & taper so it slides in smoothly without galling or binding. That is a personal preference. Be sure to use flat washer under nut. Use a new lock nut or Loctite on nut. This has always worked well for me.
Don

Last edited by TR7RVMan; 11/10/17 10:05 pm. Reason: spelling

1973 Tiger 750
#714566 - 11/10/17 11:20 pm Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: TR7RVMan]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,217
JubeePrince Online content
Life member
JubeePrince  Online Content

Life member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,217
Back on the mainland!
Originally Posted by TR7RVMan

Looking at cotter bolt direction, I don't know it really makes any difference as far as the grip it has on shaft. I've seen them work good both ways.


Hi Don -

It does. the threads on the "cottah" should face toward the front of the bike. The flat face of the pin is tapered. Ideally, you want the meat of the pin (the finished end) to be on the leading edge of the machined slot on the KS spindle that experiences the most force.

Cheers,

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
#714570 - 11/10/17 11:51 pm Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: RGM]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,048
Tridentman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Tridentman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,048
New Jersey USA
Brit speak-- "cotter pin".
A bolt always has a head.
Sorry to be pedantic!

#714583 - 11/11/17 1:29 am Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: Tridentman]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,515
JBMorris Online content
BritBike Forum member
JBMorris  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,515
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
T3,
'have a great collection of 'cotter pins' - all sizes known to man- haven't used one in years!!!
Brien


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#714600 - 11/11/17 8:44 am Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: RGM]  
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 208
TR7RVMan Offline
BritBike Forum member
TR7RVMan  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 208
Pleasant Hill, California USA
Hi Steve, I agree 100% about with threads facing front gives more support. However, I see many bikes on the club rides with cotter in backwards. The '69 Bonnie I'm going through now had it backwards for several years without problems. I think many don't like the look of the nut facing forwards??

You see this all the time. I used to wonder why so many levers are set back farther than mine.

One of the things I noticed on the '69 the kicker lever didn't hit the back of my right leg feet on the ground. Backwards cotter places lever about 3/4-1" back which just clears my leg.

On my bike I ground the pedal stop so it folds in further. Rode a friend's T140 recently & remembered how annoying it is to have kicker digging into my leg. Depends on how tall you are I suppose.
Don


1973 Tiger 750
#714620 - 11/11/17 2:55 pm Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: RGM]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,048
Tridentman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Tridentman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,048
New Jersey USA
When I was learning my motorcycle mechanics from an old timer in UK in the 60s I was taught to always put the cotter pin in with the nut at the bottom.
The rationale was that if the nut came undone and fell off then the pin would not work its way out and fall out.
So that is the way I have always done it--and never had a problem.
The secret is to make sure the pin fits the aperture well--filing it if necessary to fit.
The pin is not hardened so if you have the slightest bit of slop then it will quickly get worse.
Also--I am told that Triumph pins and BSA pins are different.
I have never investigated that but if correct then it further emphasizes the need for a good initial fit.
Just my two centsworth of course.

#714670 - 11/11/17 9:45 pm Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: TR7RVMan]  
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 25
RGM Online content
BritBike Forum member
RGM  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 25
Surrey Hants borders UK
Originally Posted by TR7RVMan
Hi RGM, Installing trans outer cover this AM.

Assuming you have the spring on correctly & kick lever cotter bolt with nut on front side....

The static position of lever is dependent on the tension of spring you have. In my case the lever is about 11:00 oclock ish with no tension. Maybe 10:00.

Do not move shift lever at all or pawls can jump out. May be better to remove shifter lever to prevent accidents??

Anyway, wind kicker about 1 full turn counter clock wise until about 10:00. Offer cover to trans & look down & see where kicker gear is. You can see if you need to move lever up/down to allow cover to mate with trans. You can see fat stop peg & if gear is hitting case. I like to use those battery powered head lights as you can see the parts well & leaves both hands free.

It should go without force, but you need to counter hold cover to counter act the spring tension of kicker. A little of a balancing act. Do a dry run without sealant (or gasket) to get the feel of it. When you're lined up good & dowels are entering cover, bump cover with right hand to finish getting over dowels. Again verify dowels are lined up, don't use undue force.

Regarding kicker lever cotter bolt factory faced nut forwards. You can face it to rear if you want. Rear facing bolt will bias lever downwards a little. If lever is hitting your leg at stop lights, you may like this better??

Looking at cotter bolt direction, I don't know it really makes any difference as far as the grip it has on shaft. I've seen them work good both ways.

In every case the bolt must be in good condition & not have a step worn in the taper. A step can prevent the bolt from sliding fully home to properly grab shaft. This can wear shaft & lever.

I personally like to put a little oil on bolt & taper so it slides in smoothly without galling or binding. That is a personal preference. Be sure to use flat washer under nut. Use a new lock nut or Loctite on nut. This has always worked well for me.
Don


Thanks for this excellent guidance, I have not refitted it but I have sorted the clutch end nut which had loosend fully and jammed it all up due to previous owner not bending the tabs onto the nut it seems...both fully folded back!

Whilst at it I think I have sorted my neutral light swithc by cleaning,, soldering wires onto it and adjusting it so it worked in neutral, it was not adjusted in far enough to make contact and earth it irrespective of the fact the wires were mank too.

The only thing you do not mention is ensuring the gear lever locates and this means I think it either needs sticking in place to line up or a helper waggling it to locate it...or 6 foot long arms to reach round the bike!!

Next things to fix....find why the centre stand is wrong...the foot lever part digs into the grond making the bike lean to the right.
The side stand too is wrong, the bike leans far too much!

#714702 - 11/12/17 1:00 am Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: RGM]  
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 208
TR7RVMan Offline
BritBike Forum member
TR7RVMan  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 208
Pleasant Hill, California USA
Hi RGM, Sorry I didn't think about your bike being left foot shift. Mine is right foot shift so I had that stuck in my mind.

The end of shifter crossover shaft looks like a screwdriver. It engages the shift pawl unit which has a slot to accept it. Try to line them up best as possible. You may need tape to hold shift lever in place if it won't stay on it's own. You're most correct, an assistant would be helpful here.

Basically you line up the 2 shaft ends & push on cover. Again be mindful to just line up shafts & not rotate the shifter in the cover. If a pawl pops out you won't be able to shift one way or the shifter will get stuck on pawl & won't move right. I think you'll find it's not going to be much of a problem.

If primary cover is off, pull the crossover out a little to the left. Then notch it in after trans cover is installed. That way you don't have to worry about alignment.

I find I need both hands to hold cover as kicker spring wants to spin it. I know the 2 long studs helps you, but still I find I need 2 hands to fit cover.

Clutch end nut?? Do you mean main shaft right end nut?

Make sure the inside tab of lock washer is indeed well fit into the kicker ratchet. Sometimes it barely grabs & allows nut to spin off event though outer tabs are bent.

I most strongly recommend using Loctite 243 on this nut. Lots of it. 243 can be hard to find locally. If nothing else use 242. It's easy to come by. Again lots of it. Then wipe off excess after torqueing. Pay attention to correct torque for your year bike. Or should I say shaft that your bike has if it's been changed.

The clutch center nut should be loctited also. Again use torque wrench to specs. Same with alternator rotor nut. Loctite type as above. You may have star washer on rotor nut. If it has lock tab washer again look at inside tab as it can miss keyway & not hold nut.

Don


1973 Tiger 750
#714782 - 11/12/17 5:04 pm Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: TR7RVMan]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,217
JubeePrince Online content
Life member
JubeePrince  Online Content

Life member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,217
Back on the mainland!
Originally Posted by TR7RVMan

I most strongly recommend using Loctite 243 on this nut. Lots of it.


Just to gob on to what Don has said....do NOT over tighten this nut on the gearbox side. There are few threads and a thin wall on the shaft. Can strip easily.


Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
#714895 - 11/13/17 8:00 pm Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: JubeePrince]  
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 25
RGM Online content
BritBike Forum member
RGM  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 25
Surrey Hants borders UK
I have listened and removed my already installed nut and Tab washer, cleaned, degreased and will refit when fully dry with loctight!
Yes I did mean end shaft nut on right side...I called it clutch nut wrongly because it is what the clutch actuator bit operates against I think looking at it with the three ball bearings.
I will hold the gear lever in place to install the cover by gaffer tape of a small young daughters hand ;0)
Just awaiting arrival of EP90 gear oil.
Would I be correct...standard 20/50 mineral engine oil? it will need topping off having lost some taking pipes off to remove the neutral switch to repair/set up. I have some left over standard 20/50 from classic car engines.

Last edited by RGM; 11/13/17 8:02 pm.
#714962 - 11/14/17 1:34 am Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: RGM]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,217
JubeePrince Online content
Life member
JubeePrince  Online Content

Life member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,217
Back on the mainland!
Originally Posted by RGM

Would I be correct...standard 20/50 mineral engine oil? I have some left over standard 20/50 from classic car engines.


Yes. Do you have an external oil filter fitted? This is a very worthwhile mod.

Use some 20W/50 oil designed for 4-stroke motorcycles with wet clutches. It should meet or exceed JASO MA/MA-2 AP SF/SG/SJ.

Cheers,

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
#714969 - 11/14/17 2:30 am Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: RGM]  
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 208
TR7RVMan Offline
BritBike Forum member
TR7RVMan  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 208
Pleasant Hill, California USA
Hi RGM, Classic car oil could be anything that doesn't mean it's good for wet clutch.

Look at container & follow Steve's advice on the designation. If you accidently put in a car oil with friction modifiers it will make wet clutch slip. No a huge deal as going to correct oil & riding gently for 50 miles or so will usually cure slip.

If you go to web sites & see ingredients, I look for highest zinc content. That is with oils rated for wet clutch. Specific wet clutch motor cycle oils tend to be a good bet. But for a top off the oil types Steve suggested are ok.

Don


1973 Tiger 750
#715060 - 11/14/17 4:26 pm Re: Kick Start Spring bonnie 750 [Re: TR7RVMan]  
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 25
RGM Online content
BritBike Forum member
RGM  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 25
Surrey Hants borders UK
I will look at my 20/50 can, I am aware of the wet clutch issues and used it in other old bikes but will look properly. In the cars i use good old mineral 20/50 no fancy additives, it is designed to be like the older oils were. In particular it has been found, certainly in the uk, a modern seemingly same designation oil can sometimes cause oil pressure to run alarmingly lower in some cars!
The Bonnie manual states Castrol GTX. Duckhams etc for oils of the day, these were not motorcycle oils, just standard car oils without the modern slippery additives!
GTX can still be bought but I suspect it is not the same...........!


Moderated by  John Healy 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 1.072s Queries: 15 (0.038s) Memory: 0.9112 MB (Peak: 1.1608 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-11-21 09:58:55 UTC