BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
  JWood Auction  
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Photo posting tutorial

Member Spotlight
Goostrey
Goostrey
San Antonio, TX
Posts: 21
Joined: July 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
203 registered members (57nortonmodel77), 1,622 guests, and 587 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Doug Baril, revans, Gilly, XTINCT, Bruce Roberts
9960 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
btour 184
koan58 99
Stuart 85
NickL 70
Popular Topics(Views)
439,657 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums33
Topics65,299
Posts632,336
Members9,960
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
#709774 - 09/26/17 8:37 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 931
Andy Higham Online content
BritBike Forum member
Andy Higham  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 931
Bolton Lancs UK
I bought some cork primary gaskets thinking they would be an improvement over the paper type, WRONG. The screws need forever tightening, the case still leaks and the gasket tries to squeeze out.
P.S. I bought a pack of 6mm x 10mm fibre washers, they fit snugly over the drain and level case screws to prevent a drip there. I use the generic form of "Yamabond/Suzukibond " etc it is called "Threebond"


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
BSA Gold Star eBay items

BSA Gold Star forum This board is dedicated to BSA Gold Star motorcycles.

#709850 - 09/27/17 5:47 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Andy Higham]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
Originally Posted by Andy Higham
I use the generic form of "Yamabond/Suzukibond " etc it is called "Threebond"
There are several varieties of each of these sealants (e.g. ThreeBond 1104, 1184, 1215, ...; Yamabond 4, 5, 6 ...) with different properties. While more than one of these might work fine for sealing cases, and while one of the ThreeBonds probably is identical to Yamabond 4, all I know for sure is Yamabond 4 works for me. Not a drop of fluid leaked out of the Catalina or BB after nearly a year of sitting and operation, and it held the gasket to the cover when I removed it allowing me to reuse the gasket.




#711757 - 10/17/17 12:41 am Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
The friend who sold me the 1928 Ariel and I put ~1200 miles each on the BB and Catalina Gold Stars. I had just done 250 break-in miles on the Catalina so I've included that in the mileages that follow in case anyone finds the information useful.

Catalina Gold Star:

A too-short lead to the NiMH battery pack broke at ~300 miles. That evening I soldered a longer lead on it to better resist vibration and it was fine after that. At roughly the same mileage the ferrule came off the end of the compression release cable but I was able to fix it with a clamp-on ferrule. I noticed one shock leaking oil so it will get a pair of new shocks.

At ~750 miles the Catalina shed 2/3 of the silencer when the weld between the entry pipe and the larger main silencer broke. I was following by ~4-6 car lengths so there was plenty of time to dodge it as it bounced down the road. At that point the Catalina sounded like the most powerful bike in the State. I had hoped the no-name muffler was strong enough to survive unsupported at the end of the long exhaust pipe, but obviously it wasn't. I'll have to come up with another solution, possibly involving an ugly support bracket, for whatever replacement muffler I put on it.

Bubba at the local car and tractor repair shop hadn't yet shown up at work that morning so I had to return later because obviously they wouldn't let me use their welding equipment. He was there when I returned and MIG welded the muffler for $35. However, his weld lasted only ~30 miles. Rather than risk having the engine run lean, and not wanting to mess around with the jetting because it takes so much time to gain access to the carburetor on this bike, a tie down strap, later aided by safety wire, got it the next ~150 miles where a hardware store had what I needed to make a splint. I got them to cut a large shelving angle bracket into two segments and I attached them with four large hose clamps.

I had changed the oil prior to starting the ride (i.e. at 250 miles) so having reached 500 miles on this ride (750 since the engine was rebuilt) I changed the oil again. The chain had stretched enough that it needed tightening but I found no other issues when I carefully checked it over.

At ~800 miles the taillight/licence plate assembly vibrated off when the two steel brackets I had fabricated for it cracked. I had not wanted to drill additional holes in the mudguard to bolt the assembly directly to it and had thought my brackets would be strong enough. I still don't want to drill holes so I'll have to make an even more robust set of brackets that make use of the existing holes.

At ~900 miles my friend inadvertently put the choke full on at a gas stop that was 1/2 mi. from our final stop that day and when later trying to figure out why it suddenly was running badly, and before I noticed the choke lever, I changed the plug and found the gap was 0.024", whereas I always adjust them for 0.018". This means that in ~900 miles the remagnetized magneto had eroded the center electrode by 0.006". I count that as a good thing since I'd much rather have a Gold Star that starts first kick at the cost of having to regap the plug every 1000 or so miles than have a weak magneto that allows the plug to last forever despite needing dozens of kicks.

The head steady bracket lost one of the top bolts and fractured at the other one at ~950 miles. I had my friend continue that way for the next 75 miles where the hardware store had the necessary 5/16" bolts with nyloc nuts and large washers. Using those along with a large nut and a washer to simulate the lost spacer I clamped the head steady back into place.

Somewhere around 950 miles the primary oil filler plug disappeared so I used a strip of duct tape to seal the hole.

At ~1050 miles the Catalina developed a loud rattle when the engine was reved. I couldn't identify where it was coming from (primary chain?) so to avoid possible expensive destruction we loaded it in the trailer. Already several days earlier my friend had decided to ride in the truck the final 300 mile slog back to base so this only cut his ride short by ~50 miles.

General comments: The low gearing of the Catalina means it's happiest below ~50 mph, becoming fairly buzzy at higher speeds. If I planned to use the Catalina again for covering significant distances on the open road it would need larger engine and/or gearbox sprockets. Also, the short footpegs aren't very comfortable for long distances and they are mounted a few inches forward of the ones on other BSAs so there isn't room for a boot to easily operate the gearshift lever. I'll weld a ~2" extension on a spare gearshift lever to give the same gap as on the other machines (exact length TBD). The Catalina draws lots of attention (truly an "old man magnet," as my daughter termed it), especially with the aggressive-looking Heidenau semi-knobbies. However, the tires have plenty of traction for what was pretty sporty riding at times.


BB Gold Star:

It has a problem with a false neutral between 2nd and 4th at speed that I hadn't noticed at the lower speeds it had been ridden before. One hard push of the lever from 2nd finds neutral and a second hard push finds 4th, after which lifting the lever gets 3rd. A too-soft push also finds neutral, but one that's just right gets it into 3rd. As lower speeds the problem isn't present. I'll have to figure out what is causing this problem and deal with it in order to make this bike about as perfect as any bike one could hope to have.

Somewhere around ~450 miles signs of oil from the BB's rocker box started appearing and at that point I found none of the rocker box bolts were very tight. I tightened all of them by ~1/8 to 1/4 turns ea. as well as the 4 bolts on the drain plate plus the hose clamps on the oil lines. I wiped oil off everything to make it easier to spot if there are any other leaks. This cured the top end oil leak.

The speedometer is fine up to ~55 mph but then starts getting wonky, with the needle swinging ever more widely as the speed increases. The odometer and tripmeter are accurate to 0.5% but the tripmeter got progressively harder to reset starting at ~500 miles until at ~650 miles I quit trying to reset it. The tach served as an excellent speedometer (3000 rpm = 50 mph according to my GPS).

The only time I needed the lights was on the last day when I made an early start. The LED headlight bulb makes the bike quite visible to oncoming traffic but the beam it throws is far from ideal for riding at anything over ~45 mph.

General Comments: The BB is a real trooper. It has plenty of h.p. and, with rare exception, starts on the first kick hot or cold. Its high gearing is great everywhere (redline at 110 mph) and it feels like it could cruise at 50-55 mph forever (it did so without any sign of distress for 300 miles on the final day). Routine maintenance of both bikes consisted of checking the level in the oil tanks, looking for loose bolts and signs of oil leaks, and lubing the chains ever 200 or so miles, The range of both Gold Stars is ~120 miles at 50 mph; less when riding fast on twisty roads in the hills or in a strong headwind. If the trip meter hits 100 miles and there isn't a town in sight it's time to start getting nervous.

#711784 - 10/17/17 8:53 am Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,210
Kerry W Online content
BritBike Forum member
Kerry W  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,210
Middle East,
Hmmm...youre making me want to get another BB and set-it up soft and tall-geared..


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
#711829 - 10/17/17 6:36 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Kerry W]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
Originally Posted by Kerry W
Hmmm...youre making me want to get another BB and set-it up soft and tall-geared..
For me, my 1954 BB in 'Road Model' configuration hits a sweet spot of performance/handling/comfort/reliability, and so has become my favorite classic bike for actual riding. It does everything I'd like a bike to do, and does it quite well. It has the same frame and handling as a DBD, and even if it had twice the h.p. it wouldn't make it up a mountain road more than a few sec. faster. It just did the equivalent distance of John O'Groats to Lands End and back to London with a trivial amount of maintenance and it's hard to ask more than that from a bike that's over 60 years old.

I have the Catalina on a hoist so will open the primary to see if something in there is the cause of the rattle that caused me to put it on the truck. But, other than that, my attention will turn back to rebuilding the Ariel for the Cannonball. When I do get back to the Catalina I'll consider gearing it up a bit (I don't have my notes in front of me, but I do know it has an 18T engine sprocket vs. 21T on the BB) but I'm inclined to leave it as is.

#711931 - 10/18/17 9:42 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
At ~1050 miles the Catalina developed a loud rattle when the engine was reved. I couldn't identify where it was coming from (primary chain?)
Before abandoning the Gold Stars in favor of the Ariel I wanted to locate the problem. There are three bolts that hold the inner primary cover to the engine and, since they were safety wired when I got the bike, I didn't check them. However, as I've subsequently learned, the previous owner was very delicate when tightening bolts and all three were only tight-ish. That, coupled with the single fastener that bolts the rear of the assembly to the frame having become quite loose, the covers were able to rattle against the lug on the frame. For what it's worth, although the primary cover nicely held the oil for ~1200 miles it was surprisingly dirty looking given that it doesn't have to do much other than splash around on the chain. From now on I'll change the primary oil every 750 miles.

I went through my box of spares and found engine sprockets in all sizes from 16 through 21 so I'll swap the current 18 for a 21. That alone will move the point where vibrations get objectionable from ~50 mph up to 58 mph. When I swap the current SCT gearbox for the correct ASCT I have on the shelf (same ratios) I'll put a larger sprocket there as well to move that point up to ~65 mph (I don't know what sprocket is on the gearbox now)(*). That should still leave a reasonably low first gear for fire trails in the mountains while making the Catalina much more friendly for highway use.

(*) After removing the inner primary cover I found the gearbox sprocket is 19T which already is the higher of the two possibilities (the lower is 16T). I also found the engine mounting stud that is hidden between the inner primary on one side and the oil lines on the other was missing a nut so it wasn't doing anything to help minimize vibration.

Last edited by Magnetoman; 10/22/17 5:11 pm. Reason: added (*)
#712468 - 10/23/17 11:41 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 99
flowboy Offline
BritBike Forum member
flowboy  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 99
UK
Nice to hear tales of bikes in actual use.
I'm not surprised the unsupported silencer broke from vibration. Had a similar issue with an ES2 on a long run, that shed most of it's silencer which was better supported (supposedly!) I've seen various bikes with silencers supported with a length of stainless steel rope strung from the top suspension bracket or similar spot. Looks kind of OK as it's thin & not very visible from a distance, if you're trying to avoid something too bulky looking. Fittings can be quite discreet.
Used to have problems on a rigid ZB32 that broke the silencer mounting bracket a few times. I went thicker & heavier & it kept breaking them! * Ended with a lighter stainless plate & that remained on the bike many years.* Seemed to flex a bit rather than be too strong & stiff.. Have seen similar brackets made "doubled up" with 2 pieces of thinner material - just bolted up to fitting, not welded or brazed together.

* It may be that I was lucky to use a grade of stainless that was just right for the job in terms of ductility & hardness. It came out of some scrap so unfortunately I don't know what grade it was.

Of course the simple solution is ditch the silencer! Can't beat the sound of a straight thru' pipe (if your ears - & the neighbours / police - can stand it...)

Last edited by flowboy; 10/24/17 9:15 am. Reason: a little more info

na
#712482 - 10/24/17 4:30 am Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
Originally Posted by flowboy
Nice to hear tales of bikes in actual use.
I'm doing my best to add road dust to them whenever I can, as a complement to the garage storage dust. Although the two Gold Stars were "modern," this recent 1200-mile ride was a sort of mini-Cannonball learning experience in keeping two bikes and me on the road day after day.

Originally Posted by flowboy
I'm not surprised the unsupported silencer broke from vibration...
Two potential solutions were delivered today, both with Emgo labels. One is a perforated pipe/baffle that fits in the exhaust pipe leaving it looking like a straight through pipe. Whether or not it reduces the exhaust noise significantly remains to be seen. The other is a shorty silencer with a nut welded to the side making it easy to connect a support to the nearest part of the frame. Whether or not it can be done in a way that doesn't look crude remains to be seen. Also in today's mail was a new set of shocks to replace the leaky ones on the bike.

I'm using this opportunity to swap the current SCT gearbox, incorrect for a '62 Catalina, for a correct ASCT that I've had on the shelf for years. I have the ASCT apart, cleaned, and am about to reassemble it with whatever new bearings and bushings it needs. Once it's installed, that will leave just the forks to rebuild with new seals and the bike will be good as new and ready for more road dust.

#713158 - 10/30/17 2:51 am Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
Although the following may be common knowledge, a search found only a few posts that touched on it.

Earlier this week I stopped at Home Depot and bought a 5 gal. plastic bucket. There were a few types of lids for it and I picked the expensive one with a ring that "permanently" snaps on the bucket but has a large center section that unscrews. Gunk suggests a few chemicals to dilute it with, like kerosene, but after 10 min. with google and the telephone I was unable to find any other than pure (expensive) stuff in small quantities for camping stoves. Since diesel is essentially kerosene, that's what I used instead. I poured 1/2 gal. of Gunk degreaser(*) in the bucket and then added 3 gal. of diesel for a 6:1 dilution.

Gunk calls for 5:1 to 10:1 dilution and I intended to add 4 gal. of diesel but it foamed so much in the bucket I didn't realize I had so little until after I turned the pump off. No matter, 3 gal. was just fine for now. When I got home I dropped the ASCT gearbox case in it that was coated with hardened grease and dirt. I already had the Gunk so the total price including diesel was ~$15.

Two days later I opened the container and the case looked great. The solution was warm because I had left it in the sun and I don't live in Canada. Although there were a few nooks and crannies with grease where it had been especially thick, it took less than 5 min. with a stiff brush to deal with them. I'm sure had I left it in longer the brush wouldn't have been necessary. I put the case back in the bucket because I couldn't work with it for another day and then I got a set of empty B31 engine cases down from the shelf and determined that almost certainly both of them would fit together in the bucket, and certainly separately the halves would fit.

I removed the gearbox after three days, hosed it off, and it looked essentially new. I've now tried leaving parts in the solution for only half a day and get similar results. In addition to the "macroscopic" globs of hardened grease apparently there is a "microscopic" film of grease everywhere that dulls the surface and the solution dissolves that film to leave the Al bright enough to look great if not quite up to concours standards.

I like to avoid chemicals on my hands if possible but the first time I pulled the cases from the container I used an old set of gloves that turned out to leak so my hands were covered with diesel. Unlike the situation with gasoline, I washed once with soap and the smell was essentially gone.

Diesel/Gunk in a 5 gal. bucket is now my preferred degreasing method.


(*) I used "Gunk S-C Super-Concentrate Degreaser" because I had it on hand. Other versions of Gunk might work better, worse, or the same.


Last edited by Magnetoman; 11/01/17 2:43 pm. Reason: added the specific type of Gunk
#713245 - 10/30/17 9:03 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
The assembled ASCT gearbox is on the bench having 4 speeds and with the Yamabond setting. A few notes on correctly assembling a gearbox that others might find useful:

1. Assemble the collection of parts in the way you know they should be assembled, not following instructions because that's how we do things, and it's the fastest way to have it back together.

2. Discover a few leftover parts in the tray.

3. Disassemble gearbox to start over.

Or, just jump straight to step 4.

4. Read and carefully follow instructions, step-by-step. As for instructions, I can recommend those by John Gleed in the June/July 1987 issue of Classic Mechanics magazine (which I realize not everyone will have access to, but I'm recommending anyway).

Prior to assembly I found it easiest to count the teeth and write the number on each gear. Then, referring to a BSA chart, it was very fast to assemble them in the right order on the correct shaft.

Not apparent from the parts list or the above instructions are the thickness and correct locations of three thrust washers:

--The 0.108" washer goes between the 'B' gear and the back of the case.
--The 0.093" washer goes between 'F' and 'H'.
-- The 0.113" washer goes between 'H' and the bearing.
--The 0.068" (or 0.075") washer goes against the bearing, behind the kickstarter ratchet.

Instructions for a standard shifter cam plate (i.e. not a reversed one for an RRT2) say to align the red dot on the shifter quadrant with the red dot on the inner case and then, when the gearbox is in neutral, push the inner case into place to mesh the quadrant teeth with those on the cam plate. Almost certainly the red paint is long gone, but there are distinct indentations in both locations where it used to be. However, make sure the indentations are aligned when looking at the gearbox straight-on, not when it is below eye level sitting on the workbench. If you do the latter you'll find the gearbox has less than four speeds until you take it apart and do it over...



Last edited by Magnetoman; 10/31/17 2:14 pm. Reason: added 4th washer I'd forgotten to include
#713288 - 10/31/17 1:07 am Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,956
Rich B Online happy
Rich B  Online Happy



Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,956
Stone Creek OH USA
Years ago on this site, Dave Kath and maybe GS Ron (RIP) had shared a fair amount of info about pre-unit gearboxes on this site. I saved the text somewhere. shocked I will see if I can find it and post it.

Though some I may have just printed and put in my book. Amazing the old posts I find that way......

Last edited by Rich B; 10/31/17 1:08 am.

Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#713335 - 10/31/17 12:11 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,956
Rich B Online happy
Rich B  Online Happy



Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,956
Stone Creek OH USA
I found the saved post from a number of years ago. By reading it, I believe it was Dave Kath who made the post though for some reason GS Ron may have been involved as well. I may have combined posts from both into one document for my use.

I have posted it as a sticky for future reference


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#713350 - 10/31/17 2:20 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Rich B]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
Originally Posted by Rich B
I have posted it as a sticky for future reference
That information deserves to be a sticky because it is very useful, if not essential. Although a lot smaller than the engine, with 129 parts the gearbox is more complicated (the engine has ~25% fewer at 103).

#713393 - 10/31/17 7:06 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,852
dave - NV Offline
BritBike Forum member
dave - NV  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,852
Elko, Nevada USA
I'll add a bit to MM's good tranny assembly info ... It's easy to select the different gears in a partially assembled tranny to insure the proper selector 'timing'. First clamp the tranny in your shop vise for assembly. If you haven't replaced the serrated jaws in your vice with alu, protect the tranny lug with a rag.
Back off the spring loaded detent adjustment for ease of movement of the selector cam. Then using a large straight slot screw driver through the opening in the center case you can pry on the cam gear shifting the gears manually peering in the hole noting which notch the detent is in.

The alignment of the 'red dot' on the selector can be deceptive I've learned. (the hard way!) Always insure the tranny shifts properly while it's in the vise.
I'll add .. When a reverse cam plate is fitted the dot is of no use. Merely select 4th gear rotating the cam, insuring the selector arm just clears the top of the slot in the center case, then fit the outer cover. Make sense?

Another tranny hint .. Always double check the grub screw in the case on the shift fork rod is tightened. (I've learned the hard way on a CA mountain road with a tranny that wouldn't shift properly!) A dab of gasket sealer on the head works well. No LockTite! And speaking of that grub screw .. One of you GSrs suggested replacing the awkward to get to OEM grub screw with a hex socket set screw and use a long ball ended allen wrench. Works great.

Someday I'll tell about my adventure fitting a Nova 5 speed gear set. aarrgh


dave - NV
#713397 - 10/31/17 7:25 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 931
Andy Higham Online content
BritBike Forum member
Andy Higham  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 931
Bolton Lancs UK
"Someday I'll tell about my adventure fitting a Nova 5 speed gear set. aarrgh"
I fitted a Nova 5 speed, No dramas
I downloaded and followed the instructions. Relieving the case to clear the camplate and footprint was the most difficult bit.
I'm lucky I have a lathe and milling machine so things like boring bearing housings are a doddle


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#713399 - 10/31/17 7:29 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 931
Andy Higham Online content
BritBike Forum member
Andy Higham  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 931
Bolton Lancs UK
I also fitted a Nova 5 speed into a plunger twin shell. That was a challenge, It involved welding bits to the shell and fitting a later sandwich plate.
This gearbox is bolted to the back of a Greeves 360 challenger engine with a Newby clutch and belt drive


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#713426 - 10/31/17 11:26 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: dave - NV]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,956
Rich B Online happy
Rich B  Online Happy



Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,956
Stone Creek OH USA
Dave, if you don't mind, I will add your latest info to the sticky thread on the pre-unit trans.

I have some other stuff I have saved over the years, I will start stickies as time permits. May as well make the info easy to find.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#713510 - 11/01/17 10:16 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,852
dave - NV Offline
BritBike Forum member
dave - NV  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,852
Elko, Nevada USA
R: My comment on my difficulties fitting a Nova 5 speed ... I had spent a bit admiring the Nova gearset. A work of art at the 'jewelry' level seemed to me! BTW, Nova's instruction sheet was very precise and informative.
Anyhow, I had problems shifting with the assembled box in the vise that ran me around for awhile. After a bit of head scratching (two days later) I found I had screwed up. I had fitted the 'B' gear on the layshaft the wrong way around, as there was a subtle difference side to side I hadn't previously noticed. aarrgh


dave - NV
#714254 - 11/08/17 4:30 am Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
Although my plan was to have the Catalina finished eight days ago so I could turn back to working on the Ariel, I'm now very close so I'll count it as being on schedule.

The ASCT gearbox has been sitting on the work bench since I finished rebuilding it some days ago. In the meantime I did put new Hagons on the back and took care of a few small things, but today I finally pulled the SCT from the Catalina and replaced it with the ASCT. Following dave - NV's procedure the primary cover, gasket, and Yamabond are bolted to the engine to set overnight, leaving only the clutch and larger engine sprocket to be installed in order to finish the Catalina. Somehow the clutch rod managed to go missing so I might have to make another one if it doesn't turn up (shortened, for the SRM pushrod bearing), but I have spares to sacrifice.

As I mentioned in an earlier post a Catalina's footpegs are 2-1/4" further forward than on a "standard" Gold Star (8-1/2" from the swinging arm pivot to the footpegs vs. 6-1/4" on my BB). Since the gearbox is in the same position on both this means there is only a small space between the footpeg and the shifter on the Catalina. In light of my friend's 1200 miles of experience on the bike I've welded a longer shifter to open up that space. The shortest distance between footpeg and shifter centers I measured is 5-1/4" on my Triumph 500 and the longest is 7" on my BB Gold Star, with several others between 5-3/4" and 6" so I made the new one for the Catalina to be 6-1/8", resulting in a 6" distance in front of the footpeg. This will increase the amount it has to move to shift gears so it remains to be seen how it feels in operation.

#714448 - 11/10/17 3:06 am Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
As mentioned in an earlier post I decided to replace the Catalina's 18T engine sprocket with 21T to drop the engine revs in high gear by 14% at any given speed. The bigger sprocket required a new primary chain that is 2 links longer. After assembling the sprocket and spring mechanism I then found the missing clutch rod hiding in the mainshaft of the SCT. Following the procedure detailed elsewhere I assembled the clutch and tweaked the nuts to result in a final ~0.003" runout of the outer plate and with 14 ft.lbs. torque on the operating arm as described elsewhere. So, other than the fork rebuild I'm postponing until later, the Catalina is done.

If nothing bad is revealed when I take it for a test ride this weekend I'll put it aside for now and start work again on the Ariel.

#714565 - 11/10/17 11:19 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
I meant to write earlier that one thing I can't remember having come across in any Gold Star literature is a discussion of the alignment of the primary chain. If you open your DBD parts manual to Plate 2 'Engine' you will see reference no. 83 corresponds to two part numbers, for "washers" (shims) of thickness 0.032" and 0.064". These would be used if necessary to get the correct alignment of the engine and clutch sprockets.

I made two alignment tools from 3/4" x 3/4" bar. One is 11" long and thanks to a combination of welding, drilling, and tapping it holds a dial indicator. The other is 15" long and near one end I've cut an arc of 7" dia. out of half of it. With the chain wrapped around both sprockets, but not necessarily connected with a master link, pressing the latter bar against the protruding rivets on the chain that's on the clutch sprocket lets me see how far out of alignment the engine sprocket is and with a feeler gauge I can measure the amount of misalignment. With the former tool the dial indicator measures the misalignment directly without fiddling with feeler gauges. Either way I can determine how much the engine sprocket has to be moved to line up with the clutch sprocket.

In my case the misalignment was 0.044". Since I don't have (or, if I do, couldn't find) any official BSA shims I cut my own from brass. The shims are trapped between two pieces that rotate together so brass is fine for this application and is easier to cut than steel. Still, the 0.024" piece of brass I started with was difficult enough to cut that instead of cutting a second one from the same brass (to give a misalignment of -0.004") I cut a second one from 0.010" brass. At that point I was sick of cutting shims so, since alignment with the two already would be better than I could have done with a BSA shim, I bolted it back together. The measured misalignment when done was 0.008". Sometimes you have to decide that close enough is good enough and move on to something else.

#714671 - 11/11/17 9:46 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,984
U.S.
With the exception of rebuilding the forks that I'm leaving to sometime in the future, all the maintenance, fixes, and upgrades to the Catalina were done so today I rolled it out of the garage and started it.

If anything, it seemed to me the Emgo baffle made the sound worse than the open pipe. It was as if all the soothing low frequencies were gone and only the loud, harsh cracks were left. So back into the garage to add the Emgo shorty muffler to the baffle to see if it helped. It definitely did, making a significant difference in the "tone" of the exhaust as well as the loudness. It by no means meets 2017 noise standards, but it's quiet by aftermarket Harley standards. At the moment the muffler is held in place by a clamp and safety wire so now that I know it solves this problem it needs a permanent mount. I then headed out for a ~5-mile ride. The jetting was off in the midrange (more on that later) so I assumed the restriction of the baffle + muffler required the needle to be dropped to compensate.

The higher overall gearing plus the ASCT with its lower 1st seem excellent for how I will use the bike. Accelerating in 1st isn't an issue, of course, but holding a steady speed at anything over 20 mph was a bit buzzy. Shifting to 2nd with this gearbox drops the rpm significantly but not so much so that it causes the engine to lug. In 2nd it's within its "power band" down to ~17-18 mph, overlapping with 1st. Given the ratios, starting to be buzzy at 20 mph in 1st means the same will happen at speeds above 58 mph in 4th (which I didn't reach today, at least for more than a few seconds) so the ASCT plus the larger engine sprocket gives me gearing good for mountain dirt roads as well as for highways.

On the subject of shifting, the extended gear change lever I fabricated feels great. The fact it requires ~50% further movement than a standard lever to change gears wasn't an issue. Also, it makes the short footpegs much less of an annoyance since I no longer have to move my foot to get my boot under the lever each time I downshift.

The slightly lower clutch spring pressure I used this time (14 ft.lbs. vs. 15 previously, as measured the way described elsewhere) didn't cause the clutch to slip so this is my new standard value.

The speedometer read 14% low when I first installed it 1000+ miles ago but today it was spot on at 40 mph on the local radar speed sign. It's tempting to assume this is just due to an old speedometer having become used to working again, but given that I swapped gearboxes there's also the possibility the speedometer gears are different (i.e. 10T in one but 11T in the other, resulting in a 6% difference). I know the SCT and ASCT are supposed to have the same gears but I can't rule out that one of them was built with, say, an STDT layshaft. Not that this matters...

The bike didn't want to idle when I got back home, at which point I discovered the slide stop screw was MIA. Since air can leak through that opening I'll have to check the jetting again after I put a new one in before changing anything.

If all goes well on the next short test ride tomorrow after ~30 min. to mount the muffler the Catalina will re-enter the fleet.

#714679 - 11/11/17 10:43 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 931
Andy Higham Online content
BritBike Forum member
Andy Higham  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 931
Bolton Lancs UK
Silencers can do strange things to the sound of a bike. There are scientists who can design a silencer that will attenuate the "unpleasant" frequencies whilst leaving the more "pleasant" frequencies. These guys and girls are paid a lot of money by top car companies to make high end sports cars sound "right"
BSA got it wrong with the Goldie "twitter" silencer, it sounds loud and harsh. a similar era Burgess silencer has a much more pleasing mellow sound.
I guess what I am trying to say is that it's easier to [censored] up the sound of a bike than silence it


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#714684 - 11/11/17 11:19 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,852
dave - NV Offline
BritBike Forum member
dave - NV  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,852
Elko, Nevada USA
speaking of mufflers ..
I'm happy with my modified Twitter with the front perforated tube removed and a 'reverse cone' fitted on the front half and with the back section packed with SS HD 'pot scrubbers around the perforated tube. It now has a much less harsh sound but with a heathy growl when pulling hard without that annoying 'crackle'. Natch it doesn't "twitter".I've often wondered what the car drivers must think of us when we do a full throttle pass on the road. aargh.
But of course the sound of a Goldie on the gas with a mega is glorious!

We've not yet resolved the stringent sound requirements with our GS dirt tracker to race on the Perris, CA short track. The Jemco silenced racing mega works so well and the current mufflers available sure choke the engine down. hmmm. Any good ideas for us?

BTW, I''ll have a fairly nice extra Twitter for sale I've accumulated. Lucky me the owner of the '58 Clubman project bike also sold me a new OEM BSA Twitter still in the wrapping he had purchased 30+ years ago but never fitted. And speaking of such things he also sold me new OEM GS headlight assembly in the BSA box! They are 'thin on the ground'! I hope to fit it with a LED conversion to eliminate following that little yellow spot down the road.

Last edited by dave - NV; 11/14/17 7:18 pm.

dave - NV
#714686 - 11/11/17 11:34 pm Re: 1962 Catalina [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,852
dave - NV Offline
BritBike Forum member
dave - NV  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,852
Elko, Nevada USA
MM .. a much easier way to align the primary sprockets is clamp a long straight edge, I use a piece of flat strap irion, on the side of the engine sprocket extending over the clutch sprocket. Works nice. This is important when a 4 spring clutch and adapter are fitted. Added shims behind the cush drive may be required.


dave - NV
Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Rich B 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.411s Queries: 16 (0.033s) Memory: 1.0301 MB (Peak: 1.4395 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-11-24 10:56:28 UTC