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#713907 - 11/05/17 10:53 am What could possibly go wrong?  
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Simon Ratcliff Online content
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Regarding recent UK legislation exempting bikes of a certain age (40 years?) from what was a compulsory annual safety check I'm expecting the number of crashes and collisions involving classic bikes to increase.

Checks to brakes, suspension, steering, tyres etc are now left to the owners judgement. Take extra special care next time your at the Manx or any event where there's numbers of classics on the road. The popular (for some ) club ride outs are going to get interesting.

Last edited by Simon Ratcliff; 11/05/17 10:54 am.

Norton Mk3 Commando.
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#713910 - 11/05/17 11:39 am Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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There won't be any statistically noticeable increase in accidents.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#713911 - 11/05/17 12:09 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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I agree with TT
A few idiots will take it to mean that no checks are needed but generally old bikes are better looked after than many bikes with an MOT that are 7 years old

#713912 - 11/05/17 12:28 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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The stats are further confounded by the old bike owners who managed to get their bikes into dangerous condition between the annual inspections.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#713925 - 11/05/17 3:10 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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What stat's?

December issue of The Classic Motorcycle is relevant. An article on a shiney Norton Dominator mentions the previous owner failed to notice the loose fork dampers resulting in oil loss.

A shiney A7 and triumph Thunderbird were involved in a collision with each other whilst travelling in the same direction. Neither rider could explain what happened. The reporter stated both frames would have to be accurately checked...'which shouldn't be beyond most owners....' He doesn't state how most owners should go about accurately checking the frame however.

There's also an original Enfield model G which the owner has recently spent £1600 on engine work. The tester mentions that the 40 (yes, forty) year old tyres gave a reassuring ride!? If you' re spending money on a bike then tyres should be high on the list, especially when the current ones are 40 years old.

Last edited by Simon Ratcliff; 11/05/17 3:16 pm.

Norton Mk3 Commando.
#713949 - 11/05/17 7:05 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
I've always wondered about you guys having to put up with all that. I'm 68 years old, been riding motorcycles for 55 years. Never once have I lived anywhere I had to have any sort of safety inspection on a bike, (that I remember, anyway). Never had, or saw, a crash involving anything other than someone's driving habits or abilities.

#713955 - 11/05/17 7:27 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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kommando Online content
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I have not had a failure in 40 odd years of tests and I do all my maintenance, I will go biannual probably just to get a second pair of eyes over my modifications. It is an annual test that says for the length of the test i.e. 40 minutes the bike was roadworthy and you can wait 12 months before having to do another one. It could be unroadworthy for most of that next 12 months but you have the MOT certificate that says it does not need testing. PC Plod may still pick up issues and get you prosecuted in those 12 months but he can't say you do not have an MOT no matter how unroadworthy.

#713961 - 11/05/17 8:17 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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A vehicle will have to under go a repair if it is found to be unroadworthy even when the last mot was less than 12 months ago.

The government's assumption that old vehicles are well looked after demonstrates how out of touch with reality the government is.

Why is the average mileage of classics so low when they' re in such good mechanical repair? A rhetorical question.

Last edited by Simon Ratcliff; 11/05/17 8:28 pm.

Norton Mk3 Commando.
#713963 - 11/05/17 8:30 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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Andy Higham Online content
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Same here, I've never had an MOT failure on a bike.
All the MOT certificate proves is that the vehicle was roadworthy on DD/MM/YYYY.
As I interperate the new regulations an MOT test will no longer be compulsory so it must be optional. If I was driving a 40+ year old car I would get it tested for my own peace of mind. I do my own maintenance on the bikes so I have intimate knowledge of the roadworthiness


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#713967 - 11/05/17 8:47 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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I also have never had or known anyone to have had a motorcycle mot failure but I've come across enthusiasts that think that, for example, a binding rear brake, notched steering head bearings and front tyre on the rear wheel are OK. These faults were not on the same bike. They may be lucky enough to survive until the next mot but at least they' d then get fixed.


Norton Mk3 Commando.
#713969 - 11/05/17 9:00 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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Originally Posted by Simon Ratcliff
What stat's?

The statistics of the increase in accidents you said you are expecting.



Quote
December issue of The Classic Motorcycle is relevant. An article on a shiney Norton Dominator mentions the previous owner failed to notice the loose fork dampers resulting in oil loss.

I long ago stopped taking magazines seriously. Forks leaking oil? big deal.

Quote
A shiney A7 and triumph Thunderbird were involved in a collision with each other whilst travelling in the same direction. Neither rider could explain what happened.

I have no idea what happened either, nor have you, so that doesn't leave much that we can discuss.


Quote
The reporter stated both frames would have to be accurately checked...'which shouldn't be beyond most owners....' He doesn't state how most owners should go about accurately checking the frame however.

Frame straightness isn't part of the annual test that you were concerned about.


Quote
There's also an original Enfield model G which the owner has recently spent £1600 on engine work. The tester mentions that the 40 (yes, forty) year old tyres gave a reassuring ride!? If you' re spending money on a bike then tyres should be high on the list, especially when the current ones are 40 years old.

No tester ever checked or mentioned date of manufacture of tyres, in my experience.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#713980 - 11/05/17 11:02 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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Mark Z Online content
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Interesting. In New York State, all that's required to pass yearly inspection is that the horn and all the lights work, and that the tires are in safe condition. Many auto repair shops are licensed to do motorcycle inspections, and these are many riders' first choice, because, since they don't work on motorcycles, they are not motivated to "drum up business" by finding faults.

Maybe it's better to be part of a culture that has always carried the assumption "You're on your own" when it comes to motorcycle safety, because that's what it ultimately boils down to. A productive outcome of this discussion and the forum in general might be to promote that philosophy.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
#713995 - 11/06/17 1:36 am Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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As mentioned in another thread in New Jersey where I live there is no requirement at all for tests on motorcycles and the only test required on cars is an emissions test.
I have not noticed that vehicles in NJ are in much worse condition than in other states.
Particularly in my view motorcyclists are very well aware of the need to keep their bikes in tip top condition as we are always close to the edge with stupid car drivers around on their phones and doing their make up.
Just my two centsworth of course.

#714005 - 11/06/17 3:18 am Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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BritinTexas Online content
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Texas requires an annual inspection for bikes - lights, tires, horn, indicators if equipped and a brake check which requires you to reach 30 mph and then brake at the first line and make sure you stop before the second line. The lines are usually on the road just outside the testing shop and there's usually not enough room to accelerate to 30mph!

But vehicles over 25 years old can be registered as antique vehicles and are then exempted from the inspection. Only drawback is that you're restricted to riding/driving only for meets, parades and to and from a repair shop. Can't use a vehicle so registered as a commuter. My B25 is registered as an antique and currently my garage is the repair shop. I reckon that allows me to take the long way to get there!!

#714011 - 11/06/17 7:28 am Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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I agree that there are plenty of idiots driving cars but there's also plenty of idiots on motorcycles who no doubt drive cars too. Tt's attitude re fork oil is a perfect example of why the mot test should remain for all road going motorcycles of any age.

Last edited by Simon Ratcliff; 11/06/17 7:39 am.

Norton Mk3 Commando.
#714013 - 11/06/17 8:03 am Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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Here in the Netherlands there has never been a required test for motorcycles, the motorcycles on the road here are certainly not in worse condition than in other west European country, also the accident statistics do not show any difference compared to let us say Germany or the UK. Germany for example has a very strict testing regime, a non original part fitted to the bike is a reason to fail the test,however, there are no significant differences in the statistics of accidents between both countries.
The real danger is not the mechanical condition of the motor bikes,the real danger is idiots in cars using celphones.
There is certainly no reason for concern imo as Simon Ratcliff suggests in his post.


Peter.
1974 Commando 850
1972 Trident T150T
1961 Goldie DBD34
1969 Benelli 250 sport special
#714031 - 11/06/17 1:49 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Peter R]  
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here in ohio there are extremely few old or worn motorcycles of any kind on the road. about two thirds harleys and the rest recent sports bikes.

nothing is old enough to wear out, except my stuff.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
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Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
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#714034 - 11/06/17 2:42 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Running from demons in WNY
NY state has annual bike inspections, it's done at private garages/shops that are licensed to do it...The cost is $6.....How much time do you think a shop is going to spend inspecting the bike for 6 bucks considering their hourly labor rate is many times that ? They may check the lights, quick look at tires and slap on a sticker....Any biker who relies on a very brief inspection to determine if the bike is safe is fooling himself...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#714040 - 11/06/17 3:26 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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Regarding the A7 and Thunderbird collision turns out the Thunderbird rode into the back of the A7. So it was brake failure or rider error.

Incidentally, I converted my Commando to short wheel base whilst at the Manx this year due to a BSA rider deciding to do a U-turn in front of my bike while I was doing approx 60mph. Damage was limited thanks to the Honda master cylinder, Lockheed calliper, road holder forks (with oil) and Avon Road rider tyre effectively reducing speed prior to impact. Luckily minor injury to myself and BSA rider who did the decent thing and admitted liability. The Commando is in the garage awaiting replacement frame, fork stanchions, clocks, front mudguard etc.

Last edited by Simon Ratcliff; 11/06/17 3:31 pm.

Norton Mk3 Commando.
#714051 - 11/06/17 4:55 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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It's all those rusting Morris Marinas and similar that are now going appear out of various lock-ups, barns and ditches that worry me. And the Allegros. And the Cortinas, and, and ....

#714084 - 11/06/17 8:24 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: Simon Ratcliff]  
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I live in one of the poorest states of the US. Junkers everywhere you look. I'm sure there is the occaisional wreck from wheels falling off, etc., but I haven't seen them. The ones I hear about are single vehicle truck/car, down the mountain side in the middle of the night. Alcohol involved, no seat belt.

With bikes, we have two types of fatal accidents here: Tourists killing themselves with new, shiny 900 pound vee twin behemoths, and crotch rockets going three times the speed limit. Nothing else, I seldom SEE an old bike, let alone one in trouble.

#714108 - 11/06/17 10:20 pm Re: What could possibly go wrong? [Re: triton thrasher]  
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kelso scotland

I once was pulled over by a police motorcyclist on way home from test station riding a suzuki gt380, as i pulled in I used my left indicator to signal what I was doing , the rear flashed rapidly, As I got off to find out why i was being pulled the officer was checking his notebook, after a few seconds he said hed mistaken the registration no of my bike for one they were looking for,.... But he now wanted a word about my faulty indicator. Isaid that It had just happed was OK five minutes ago, and he said in a tone that implied he didn't believe that It had been checked since it left the factory that it should be checked before every time I rode the bike, i insisted it had been checked and was working when I left Parks motrcycles,around the corner, he was getting irritated and cut in (before Ihad a chance finish and tell him I had been for its mot,which it had passed) saying that he would check the whole bike over , About this point Imanaged to find my fresh mot certificate and showed him it and he said since it was tested by Brian Parkes then it must have been OK, but the mot didnt mean anything, It was a legal requirement to have a valid mot but that a part could fail causing a vehicle to become unroadworthy at any time and that could result in a prossecution and that as my bike was now not in a fit state to be on the road I should leave it where it was until the bike was repaired or get it trailered of the road. I said if I left it where it was, (the top of the Ridges estate in North Shields) it would have been stolen by the time I got back. ended up pushing it back to the bike shop, when I got there he was inside having a laugh about it over a cup of tea and I thought what a t**t but then he made up for it by paying for a set of spare bulbs which was sold at a discount and telling me to keep them under my seat for emergencies. Still try to carry spare bulbs on the bike, although changing them can be a nightmare on some of my modern bikes especially on an unlit road at night

Last edited by yosemite; 11/06/17 10:22 pm.

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