BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
JWood Auctions JRC Engineering dealers JWood Auctions
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Member Spotlight
Lars Melin
Lars Melin
Sweden
Posts: 28
Joined: October 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
30 registered members (Adam M.), 173 guests, and 442 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Andy Mac, kwbikr, RandomTask, George Henstorf, IanBSABurns44
10378 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Mori55 94
NickL 86
DavidP 82
Stuart 82
reverb 73
Triless 69
Popular Topics(Views)
687,851 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics67,995
Posts661,404
Members10,378
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill #712538
10/24/17 5:07 pm
10/24/17 5:07 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
btour  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Lets start with the carb drill, and see if I got this right. ' 71 T120R

1) bike not started from overnight.
a) Tickle and kick with throttle all the way closed until pop and then roll on throttle.

If no response:
b) kick with throttle rolled on.

Still no response:
c) kick with throttle wide open to clear, and repeat a)

2) bike just run and engine hot.
2a) No tickle, just kick with throttle just on slides rising.

No response:

2b) Kick WOT and go to 1a

3) Bike had been run but parked until head barely cool. Start with 2a and if no response 2b) followed by 1a?

4) Go for a walk and start with 1?

5) get bump start.

6) call a tow truck.

Now to the mechanics of kick starting:

I used to think this was straightforward. Now I know it is not. I used to think that it started on first compression, but I don't think this true, all though it maybe, but is rare. In any event, one could get two bites at the apple. My hope is to get the crank spinning fast enough so that inertia carries it through the second compression. This does not seem to happen. Maybe it is the cool weather and cool oil in the sump? So it is the Norton effect.

Anyway, lets consider the kickstart lever as a clock face. How many hours from one compression to the next? Near as I can judge, if you start the lever at 9:00 one compression, the next one is at 5:00. Problem for me is downward thrust is expended then and I get stuck there, so crank has to carry through with compression by itself. Unless I could swing and extend through. Somehow. But how? I have tried many times without success. I have considered sliding by butt back to so I can extend the leg forward and through. This would mean I have to sit on the bike. All the while, It seems necessary to keep the bike leaning to the left using the left leg as a prop. Too much weight on the right and the foot on the lever and a sudden recovery move of right foot may be required. That is ok for the young and feet of foot. Not so moi, nowadays.

All observations welcomed. A good video from several angles would be very nice indeed.

Thank you, all for indulging in commenting on what would appear to be a very simple, second nature thing.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712551
10/24/17 6:27 pm
10/24/17 6:27 pm
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 510
UK
D
Dibnah Offline
BritBike Forum member
Dibnah  Offline
BritBike Forum member
D
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 510
UK
Centre stand

Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712553
10/24/17 6:44 pm
10/24/17 6:44 pm
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 173
Quebec Canada
H
Hermit Offline

BritBike Forum member
Hermit  Offline

BritBike Forum member
H
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 173
Quebec Canada
Bob - I think you've nailed it pretty good.

I have two full knee replacements and I've been practicing using my left leg just so I have backup when the right one won't be up for it. Machine on center stand, stand on timing side next to handle bars with left hand on throttle grip and facing rear of bike. Engage the kick starter with left foot and kick towards rear of machine. Helps to have the bike facing slightly downhill.

Using the conventional method I always stand astride the machine with both stands up. If my Bonnie doesn't start first kick, hot or cold, or second kick at the most, usually with no throttle or rolling on, I know something's wrong.

Unless, of course, there's an audience. Then all bets are off.

Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712556
10/24/17 7:09 pm
10/24/17 7:09 pm
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Naarfuk, UK
T
Tigernuts Offline
BritBike Forum member
Tigernuts  Offline
BritBike Forum member
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Naarfuk, UK
Btour, your procedures seem very complicated. Here's what I do:

Engine stone cold: Give the kickstart one prod with the clutch lever in, to free-off the plates if they happened to be sticking. Let the kickstarter return to normal position. Flood the carb (ie: tickle it until you see petrol spewing out). Switch ignition on. Using the kickstarter, turn the engine gently until you feel strong compression. Then let the kickstarter return to its normal position (you want as much travel from it as you can get - forget about placing it at 9 o'clock or whatever- it should be about 11 o'clock if your cotter pin is as it should be).

This is when to administer the 'kick'. With your right foot on the kickstarter (and the bike preferably not on any stand but if you must, only ever use the centre stand) and both hands on the 'bars, and with the throttle shut, keeping your right knee slightly bent, launch your whole body skywards and just at the moment gravity starts bringing it back to Earth, forcibly kick by straightening your bent leg as hard as possible, with the gravitational advantage of whatever you weigh coming down on top of it. All this only takes about 1/4 second, far too little time to lose balance and drop the bike. You don't make any attempt to keep your left leg on the ground! You can start a Commando or a Vincent or a Gold Star without a valve lifter like this, first kick, unless something's wrong.

If it doesn't start first kick, have one more go asap. If that doesn't work, flood it again and repeat. You never use wide open throttle. If the engine's warm (not hot, but warm) you may need a little throttle, or even a tiny bit of flooding. If the engine's hot, just switch on and give it a kick (no throttle).

I'll try a link to a video of starting my T140 special - not sure if links come out live on here but if not, try copy & paste?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc47AeDRAjo

Last edited by Tigernuts; 10/24/17 7:14 pm.

If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712560
10/24/17 7:21 pm
10/24/17 7:21 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 761
USA
Dave M Offline
BritBike Forum member
Dave M  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 761
USA
Btour, is the hard starting a long standing problem?

Triumphs start easily. Possibly something other than starting procedure?

Good strong spark? How's the battery?
Renew the high tension leads lately? They wear out.
Coils
Ignition timing spot on?
Old gasoline?
Valve check


I'm not an expert and I'm sure you do know the stuff listed, sometimes a reminder helps. HTH



66 TR6R Trophy
67 T120R Bonneville
68 BMW R60/US
69 T100R Daytona

Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: Tigernuts] #712561
10/24/17 7:26 pm
10/24/17 7:26 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,921
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,921
Running from demons in WNY
This is how it's done, I'm 6 foot 170 pounds,This is a few years old so I was about 67 at the time I usually leave the stand down and you can see there's almost no weight on it...One kick, it starts , fumble for set back shifter and leave a strip of rubber to impress the locals...Fuel tank and seat is optional

Quick start





I ride dinosaurs....
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712581
10/24/17 9:59 pm
10/24/17 9:59 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
btour  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Hi Tiger Nuts,

Thanks for the video. You got some inseam inches and about 30 pounds on me, and a few years younger. But that is pretty much how I did it. No way I could keep my feet flat on the ground.

If that is you, you did not let the kicker return to where you started, but started down from about 10:00. The first thump might have been at 9:00. The bottom thump was about 5:30. At 6:00 you were all done.

I am trying to do this without any "launching upwards". It is supposed to be possible.


Last edited by btour; 10/24/17 10:12 pm.

Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712582
10/24/17 10:04 pm
10/24/17 10:04 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
btour  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
No Dave.

No problems until as of late, except for when ice would form on the seat weather. At that temp. I had to keep starting it so the head would stay warm as baby's milk or then yes there was a problem. But it might have needed the baby whisker then too. And the right might have been set too lean.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: Hermit] #712583
10/24/17 10:06 pm
10/24/17 10:06 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
btour  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Hermit, There always seems to be an audience at the wrong time. smile


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712584
10/24/17 10:15 pm
10/24/17 10:15 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
btour  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Hillybilly. You long legged types with heft don't need technique. smile


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712586
10/24/17 10:44 pm
10/24/17 10:44 pm
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Naarfuk, UK
T
Tigernuts Offline
BritBike Forum member
Tigernuts  Offline
BritBike Forum member
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Naarfuk, UK
Originally Posted by btour
Hi Tiger Nuts,


If that is you, you did not let the kicker return to where you started, but started down from about 10.00


You're right! Until I watched it again after you pointed this out, I'd have sworn I always start from the highest position possible. I'll have to check myself next startup. I find the 'launching upwards' essential for a really good kick on a high compression engine. I think it'd knacker my knee if I tried it without.


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712589
10/24/17 11:00 pm
10/24/17 11:00 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 761
USA
Dave M Offline
BritBike Forum member
Dave M  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 761
USA
Originally Posted by btour
No Dave.

No problems until as of late, except for when ice would form on the seat weather. At that temp. I had to keep starting it so the head would stay warm as baby's milk or then yes there was a problem. But it might have needed the baby whisker then too. And the right might have been set too lean.


Well as a recent problem, it would suggest starting procedure has absolutely nothing to do whatever w/ the problem you are having!

When dialed in properly, Triumphs are ludicrously easy to start.

Check everything! HTH


66 TR6R Trophy
67 T120R Bonneville
68 BMW R60/US
69 T100R Daytona

Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712590
10/24/17 11:15 pm
10/24/17 11:15 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
btour  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Dave,

Trying to do it without the upward launch that you will see if you watch Tigernuts video very closely.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712592
10/24/17 11:23 pm
10/24/17 11:23 pm
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 257
Monclova
S
sloppyoil Offline
BritBike Forum member
sloppyoil  Offline
BritBike Forum member
S
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 257
Monclova
Hey guys, I'm good at this one listen here, KICK DA SH$%T OTTA IT

Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: sloppyoil] #712593
10/24/17 11:25 pm
10/24/17 11:25 pm
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,843
ohio
shel Offline
BritBike Forum member
shel  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,843
ohio
Originally Posted by sloppyoil
Hey guys, I'm good at this one listen here, KICK DA SH$%T OTTA IT

Or as I say, "kick it like you're mad at it"


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712596
10/25/17 12:00 am
10/25/17 12:00 am
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,257
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
BritBike Forum member
leon bee  Offline
BritBike Forum member
L
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,257
arkansas
After 6 kicks, eight if I'm feeling real strong, I pull the plugs and put clean ones in.

Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #712936
10/27/17 8:43 pm
10/27/17 8:43 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 254
Stow, MA
Pete J 77T140 Offline
BritBike Forum member
Pete J 77T140  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 254
Stow, MA
For my T140,

1 tickle both carbs till gas just starts to run out
2. one or two kicks with ignition off
3. switch ignition on
4. Usually starts with one kick - if not repeat - if it still doesn't start go get a beer and do something else!

Pete

Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #713047
10/29/17 12:01 am
10/29/17 12:01 am
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 23
Covington, La.
M
mglsite Offline
BritBike Forum member
mglsite  Offline
BritBike Forum member
M
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 23
Covington, La.
Triumph is easy, you should try to kick over my XR650r when it's acting up.

Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #713081
10/29/17 2:04 pm
10/29/17 2:04 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
btour  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
I am going to have to delay learning until a find out what is wrong. I don't seem to have a consistent start. Spent at least 2 hours just kicking ( with rest and fettling in between. What a whole body work out!. Right now I have an exercise machine: Not a dependable motorcycle.

So far I have found it is possible to start the downward thrust of the kicker with the lever at 9:00. However, 1) It is slow spin through compression 2) It is variable. ie a) sometimes I get stuck right at the beginning. The lever won't move even with all the weight on it. that I can spare and still keep the bike upright. leaning to left, foot on the ground, ie. not jump up first. But temporarily have all my weight on it. My face winces in anticipation. My gut cringes. It is like getting ready for a "dead lift". I really don't want people to see me like that. frown b)Sometimes my foot falls through too easily. Hardly any compression at all. I guess this is why I have always jumped up in the air first, like you will notice in the tigernuts video if you watch closely.

I weigh about 155 lbs.

Starting a separate thread on start ability for search reasons.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #713084
10/29/17 2:57 pm
10/29/17 2:57 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 196
home of grits and gnats...Sout...
S
slofut Offline
BritBike Forum member
slofut  Offline
BritBike Forum member
S
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 196
home of grits and gnats...Sout...
I'd fix the problem before I spent 2hrs kicking it. That can't be good for the kick lever shaft, gears etc. Fuel, air, spark/timing.


'68 Bonnie
'74 CL360
trail 70's and minitrails
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #713090
10/29/17 4:18 pm
10/29/17 4:18 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
btour  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Oh Thanks slofut. That is as helpful as a screen door in a submarine smile.

Figured I would try different techniques as I worked.

Review my other thread, then please play again.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #713099
10/29/17 5:55 pm
10/29/17 5:55 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,283
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline
fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline
fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,283
ohio, usa
if the bike's okay but it simply can't be done any other way, there's always one of these:

[Linked Image]

http://vft.org/vftforsale2Products.html


"Are bikes so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? They're the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward on the handlebars. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes."
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: kurt fischer] #713101
10/29/17 6:17 pm
10/29/17 6:17 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
btour  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,954
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Kurt,

Ty. Try the other thread.

This one is on technique. The other is on problems that prevent proper technique from working. I realize they overlap.

Last edited by btour; 10/29/17 6:19 pm.

Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #713103
10/29/17 6:35 pm
10/29/17 6:35 pm
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 510
UK
D
Dibnah Offline
BritBike Forum member
Dibnah  Offline
BritBike Forum member
D
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 510
UK
Centre stand and borrow a big lump for kicking duties to get the thing running. The previous owner of my 650 must have been 18 stones, he started the thing with a couple prods like a small two stroke. I'm a few stones lighter so I have to leap, but not too high.

Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour] #713116
10/29/17 8:32 pm
10/29/17 8:32 pm
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Naarfuk, UK
T
Tigernuts Offline
BritBike Forum member
Tigernuts  Offline
BritBike Forum member
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Naarfuk, UK
I don't understand your reticence with the 'launching upward' method, Btour. This makes it a whole lot easier, as you are then exploiting gravity as well as pure muscle.

Is your clutch slipping intermittently? Sounds like it could be from your description (ie: you say that it sometimes kicks through "too easily").

Your weight of a tad over 11 stone is no problem at all. I have a friend who has a 750 Commando and his 8 stone girlfriend can start it. It is technique, not brute force, that counts. Hence my preference for making full use of gravity rather than busting my knee without it!


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  John Healy 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1