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#712538 - 10/24/17 5:07 pm Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill  
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btour Online content
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Lets start with the carb drill, and see if I got this right. ' 71 T120R

1) bike not started from overnight.
a) Tickle and kick with throttle all the way closed until pop and then roll on throttle.

If no response:
b) kick with throttle rolled on.

Still no response:
c) kick with throttle wide open to clear, and repeat a)

2) bike just run and engine hot.
2a) No tickle, just kick with throttle just on slides rising.

No response:

2b) Kick WOT and go to 1a

3) Bike had been run but parked until head barely cool. Start with 2a and if no response 2b) followed by 1a?

4) Go for a walk and start with 1?

5) get bump start.

6) call a tow truck.

Now to the mechanics of kick starting:

I used to think this was straightforward. Now I know it is not. I used to think that it started on first compression, but I don't think this true, all though it maybe, but is rare. In any event, one could get two bites at the apple. My hope is to get the crank spinning fast enough so that inertia carries it through the second compression. This does not seem to happen. Maybe it is the cool weather and cool oil in the sump? So it is the Norton effect.

Anyway, lets consider the kickstart lever as a clock face. How many hours from one compression to the next? Near as I can judge, if you start the lever at 9:00 one compression, the next one is at 5:00. Problem for me is downward thrust is expended then and I get stuck there, so crank has to carry through with compression by itself. Unless I could swing and extend through. Somehow. But how? I have tried many times without success. I have considered sliding by butt back to so I can extend the leg forward and through. This would mean I have to sit on the bike. All the while, It seems necessary to keep the bike leaning to the left using the left leg as a prop. Too much weight on the right and the foot on the lever and a sudden recovery move of right foot may be required. That is ok for the young and feet of foot. Not so moi, nowadays.

All observations welcomed. A good video from several angles would be very nice indeed.

Thank you, all for indulging in commenting on what would appear to be a very simple, second nature thing.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
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#712551 - 10/24/17 6:27 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Dibnah Offline
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Centre stand

#712553 - 10/24/17 6:44 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Bob - I think you've nailed it pretty good.

I have two full knee replacements and I've been practicing using my left leg just so I have backup when the right one won't be up for it. Machine on center stand, stand on timing side next to handle bars with left hand on throttle grip and facing rear of bike. Engage the kick starter with left foot and kick towards rear of machine. Helps to have the bike facing slightly downhill.

Using the conventional method I always stand astride the machine with both stands up. If my Bonnie doesn't start first kick, hot or cold, or second kick at the most, usually with no throttle or rolling on, I know something's wrong.

Unless, of course, there's an audience. Then all bets are off.


Bruce Miller
aka The Hermit
www.hermit.cc/tmc
#712556 - 10/24/17 7:09 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Btour, your procedures seem very complicated. Here's what I do:

Engine stone cold: Give the kickstart one prod with the clutch lever in, to free-off the plates if they happened to be sticking. Let the kickstarter return to normal position. Flood the carb (ie: tickle it until you see petrol spewing out). Switch ignition on. Using the kickstarter, turn the engine gently until you feel strong compression. Then let the kickstarter return to its normal position (you want as much travel from it as you can get - forget about placing it at 9 o'clock or whatever- it should be about 11 o'clock if your cotter pin is as it should be).

This is when to administer the 'kick'. With your right foot on the kickstarter (and the bike preferably not on any stand but if you must, only ever use the centre stand) and both hands on the 'bars, and with the throttle shut, keeping your right knee slightly bent, launch your whole body skywards and just at the moment gravity starts bringing it back to Earth, forcibly kick by straightening your bent leg as hard as possible, with the gravitational advantage of whatever you weigh coming down on top of it. All this only takes about 1/4 second, far too little time to lose balance and drop the bike. You don't make any attempt to keep your left leg on the ground! You can start a Commando or a Vincent or a Gold Star without a valve lifter like this, first kick, unless something's wrong.

If it doesn't start first kick, have one more go asap. If that doesn't work, flood it again and repeat. You never use wide open throttle. If the engine's warm (not hot, but warm) you may need a little throttle, or even a tiny bit of flooding. If the engine's hot, just switch on and give it a kick (no throttle).

I'll try a link to a video of starting my T140 special - not sure if links come out live on here but if not, try copy & paste?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc47AeDRAjo

Last edited by Tigernuts; 10/24/17 7:14 pm.

If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
#712560 - 10/24/17 7:21 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Dave M Offline
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Btour, is the hard starting a long standing problem?

Triumphs start easily. Possibly something other than starting procedure?

Good strong spark? How's the battery?
Renew the high tension leads lately? They wear out.
Coils
Ignition timing spot on?
Old gasoline?
Valve check


I'm not an expert and I'm sure you do know the stuff listed, sometimes a reminder helps. HTH



66 TR6R Trophy
67 T120R Bonneville
68 BMW R60/US
69 T100R Daytona

#712561 - 10/24/17 7:26 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: Tigernuts]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
This is how it's done, I'm 6 foot 170 pounds,This is a few years old so I was about 67 at the time I usually leave the stand down and you can see there's almost no weight on it...One kick, it starts , fumble for set back shifter and leave a strip of rubber to impress the locals...Fuel tank and seat is optional

Quick start





650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#712581 - 10/24/17 9:59 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Hi Tiger Nuts,

Thanks for the video. You got some inseam inches and about 30 pounds on me, and a few years younger. But that is pretty much how I did it. No way I could keep my feet flat on the ground.

If that is you, you did not let the kicker return to where you started, but started down from about 10:00. The first thump might have been at 9:00. The bottom thump was about 5:30. At 6:00 you were all done.

I am trying to do this without any "launching upwards". It is supposed to be possible.


Last edited by btour; 10/24/17 10:12 pm.

Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#712582 - 10/24/17 10:04 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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No Dave.

No problems until as of late, except for when ice would form on the seat weather. At that temp. I had to keep starting it so the head would stay warm as baby's milk or then yes there was a problem. But it might have needed the baby whisker then too. And the right might have been set too lean.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#712583 - 10/24/17 10:06 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: Hermit]  
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Hermit, There always seems to be an audience at the wrong time. smile


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#712584 - 10/24/17 10:15 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Hillybilly. You long legged types with heft don't need technique. smile


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#712586 - 10/24/17 10:44 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Originally Posted by btour
Hi Tiger Nuts,


If that is you, you did not let the kicker return to where you started, but started down from about 10.00


You're right! Until I watched it again after you pointed this out, I'd have sworn I always start from the highest position possible. I'll have to check myself next startup. I find the 'launching upwards' essential for a really good kick on a high compression engine. I think it'd knacker my knee if I tried it without.


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
#712589 - 10/24/17 11:00 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Dave M Offline
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Originally Posted by btour
No Dave.

No problems until as of late, except for when ice would form on the seat weather. At that temp. I had to keep starting it so the head would stay warm as baby's milk or then yes there was a problem. But it might have needed the baby whisker then too. And the right might have been set too lean.


Well as a recent problem, it would suggest starting procedure has absolutely nothing to do whatever w/ the problem you are having!

When dialed in properly, Triumphs are ludicrously easy to start.

Check everything! HTH


66 TR6R Trophy
67 T120R Bonneville
68 BMW R60/US
69 T100R Daytona

#712590 - 10/24/17 11:15 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Dave,

Trying to do it without the upward launch that you will see if you watch Tigernuts video very closely.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#712592 - 10/24/17 11:23 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Hey guys, I'm good at this one listen here, KICK DA SH$%T OTTA IT

#712593 - 10/24/17 11:25 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: sloppyoil]  
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Originally Posted by sloppyoil
Hey guys, I'm good at this one listen here, KICK DA SH$%T OTTA IT

Or as I say, "kick it like you're mad at it"


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
#712596 - 10/25/17 12:00 am Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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After 6 kicks, eight if I'm feeling real strong, I pull the plugs and put clean ones in.

#712936 - 10/27/17 8:43 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Pete J 77T140 Offline
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For my T140,

1 tickle both carbs till gas just starts to run out
2. one or two kicks with ignition off
3. switch ignition on
4. Usually starts with one kick - if not repeat - if it still doesn't start go get a beer and do something else!

Pete

#713047 - 10/29/17 12:01 am Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Triumph is easy, you should try to kick over my XR650r when it's acting up.

#713081 - 10/29/17 2:04 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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I am going to have to delay learning until a find out what is wrong. I don't seem to have a consistent start. Spent at least 2 hours just kicking ( with rest and fettling in between. What a whole body work out!. Right now I have an exercise machine: Not a dependable motorcycle.

So far I have found it is possible to start the downward thrust of the kicker with the lever at 9:00. However, 1) It is slow spin through compression 2) It is variable. ie a) sometimes I get stuck right at the beginning. The lever won't move even with all the weight on it. that I can spare and still keep the bike upright. leaning to left, foot on the ground, ie. not jump up first. But temporarily have all my weight on it. My face winces in anticipation. My gut cringes. It is like getting ready for a "dead lift". I really don't want people to see me like that. frown b)Sometimes my foot falls through too easily. Hardly any compression at all. I guess this is why I have always jumped up in the air first, like you will notice in the tigernuts video if you watch closely.

I weigh about 155 lbs.

Starting a separate thread on start ability for search reasons.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#713084 - 10/29/17 2:57 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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home of grits and gnats...Sout...
I'd fix the problem before I spent 2hrs kicking it. That can't be good for the kick lever shaft, gears etc. Fuel, air, spark/timing.


'68 Bonnie
'74 CL360
trail 70's and minitrails
#713090 - 10/29/17 4:18 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Oh Thanks slofut. That is as helpful as a screen door in a submarine smile.

Figured I would try different techniques as I worked.

Review my other thread, then please play again.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#713099 - 10/29/17 5:55 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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if the bike's okay but it simply can't be done any other way, there's always one of these:

[Linked Image]

http://vft.org/vftforsale2Products.html


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#713101 - 10/29/17 6:17 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: kurt fischer]  
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Kurt,

Ty. Try the other thread.

This one is on technique. The other is on problems that prevent proper technique from working. I realize they overlap.

Last edited by btour; 10/29/17 6:19 pm.

Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#713103 - 10/29/17 6:35 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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Centre stand and borrow a big lump for kicking duties to get the thing running. The previous owner of my 650 must have been 18 stones, he started the thing with a couple prods like a small two stroke. I'm a few stones lighter so I have to leap, but not too high.

#713116 - 10/29/17 8:32 pm Re: Proper kick starting technique, and carb drill [Re: btour]  
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I don't understand your reticence with the 'launching upward' method, Btour. This makes it a whole lot easier, as you are then exploiting gravity as well as pure muscle.

Is your clutch slipping intermittently? Sounds like it could be from your description (ie: you say that it sometimes kicks through "too easily").

Your weight of a tad over 11 stone is no problem at all. I have a friend who has a 750 Commando and his 8 stone girlfriend can start it. It is technique, not brute force, that counts. Hence my preference for making full use of gravity rather than busting my knee without it!


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