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Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? #677071
12/09/16 5:01 pm
12/09/16 5:01 pm
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 716
Out There!
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Nick Offline OP
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Nick  Offline OP
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Posts: 716
Out There!
Buddy of mine in Japan (a former gamble racer) has a 4-valve Weslake single engine around which he wants to build a classic racer.
Anyone have any info or parts for these rare birds?

Below is a pic of his current ride, built around a Meguro copy of the Triumph.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Note fire-breathing Japanese magneto, cylinder head drilled for lightness and cooling, Yamaha front brake, etc.
In a gamble-racer chassis this Meguro engine would be mated to a 2-speed g-box with chain primary, crank has adjustable weights in the flywheels, very, very trick and very powerful.


Last edited by Nick; 12/10/16 12:54 am.

When people who should have known better cautioned me about the dangers of motorcycle racing, I always told them that a fear of death is nothing more than a fear of life in disguise.
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Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #677109
12/10/16 12:07 am
12/10/16 12:07 am
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,176
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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GrandPaul  Online Content
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Mighty nice one-off!


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #677128
12/10/16 7:32 am
12/10/16 7:32 am
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,230
Netherlands
Peter R Offline

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Netherlands
Can't help with the Weslake unfortunately.
The bike on these pice looks great, athough the Meguro's that I have seen were all BSA A10 clones, this one looks to me like a pre-unit Triumph twin.

Last edited by Peter R; 12/10/16 7:35 am. Reason: spelling

Peter.
1974 Commando 850
1972 Trident T150T
1961 Goldie DBD34
1969 Benelli 250 sport special
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #677169
12/10/16 1:07 pm
12/10/16 1:07 pm
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 209
Frazier Park, CA
C
Chris Johnson Online content
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Frazier Park, CA
I picked up a Godden Weslake to poach the engine for a chopper project. An accumulation of other projects and the general good condition of the Gooden has kept me from moving forward. I am interested in seeing what your buddy comes up with.

Chris

Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #677208
12/10/16 6:51 pm
12/10/16 6:51 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 822
Overland Missouri
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old mule Online content
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Overland Missouri
Look at the Australian road racing sites- old speedway motors are popular there. Alcohol fuel.
JAPs, Goddens, Jawas, all turn up frequently there.

Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #677223
12/10/16 10:27 pm
12/10/16 10:27 pm
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 716
Out There!
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Nick Offline OP
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Out There!
Meguro copied the BSA, resulting in the W1 Kawasaki after Kawasaki bought it from Meguro. However, Meguro built Triumph copies specially for the gamble racers. These were purpose-built racing engines. I was told that there was also an American tuner living in Japan back in the day who made big bucks building and tuning engines for the gamble racers. In those days the money involved was serious, with the top riders earning close to a million dollars a year. I'd love to track down that American tuner hear his stories.....

I heard that one rider actually had his best engine gold plated. Another guy had his 'magic crankshaft' with which his engine always made way more power than with other cranks. He kept it locked in a safe in his work area at the track and only used it for main events!


When people who should have known better cautioned me about the dangers of motorcycle racing, I always told them that a fear of death is nothing more than a fear of life in disguise.
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #677828
12/15/16 5:46 pm
12/15/16 5:46 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,156
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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Posts: 6,156
Maui Hawaii
Perhaps we can narrow it down a bit. Weslake made a few versions of their Speedway motors. When I was racing, there was a four valve conversion kit for the Jawa two valve. I had the more common four valve push rod motor, but there was a double overhead cam motor as well. There even a one liter v twin utilizing two of the four valve push rod motors for sidecar work. That would be the motor to use for a street special, I think, or perhaps even a classic racer.
I'm sure there's a shed somewhere in England just loaded with spares for these motors....

Cheers,

Bill

PS here's the shed Weslake parts

Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 12/15/16 5:51 pm.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: HawaiianTiger] #677833
12/15/16 6:28 pm
12/15/16 6:28 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,182
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
I think "Noisy Norton" who posts in the competition forum has a Weslake in a sidecar LSR machine??...


I take off bike parts until it doesn't function, then put on just enough so it functions
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #678225
12/18/16 7:33 pm
12/18/16 7:33 pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 633
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bon Offline
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Tim lynch is the gentleman to talk to about tricked up sporty singles. His machine having a jawa 500 speedway top end mated very sweetly to a bsa b31/33 bottom end.

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbt...mp;Words=jawa&Search=true#Post593765

Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #678326
12/19/16 5:26 pm
12/19/16 5:26 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
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Andy Higham Offline
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Bolton Lancs UK
I used to race a supercharged "Wezzie" sprint bike. They are a pretty robust motor but cranks can go out of line when you drop the clutch at 7,000 rpm and the 7" slick bites into the tarmac.
For a road racer or cafe racer the lubrication system would need a complete re-think. The oil pump puts a spit every few revolutions into the crank and similar to the rockers, this is then splashed around the engine and coughed out through a couple of flap valves in the crankcase and caught in a bottle. There are no oil control rings so some oil is burnt


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #679127
12/28/16 6:49 pm
12/28/16 6:49 pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 633
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bon Offline
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The newer speedway/grasstrack engines, as in those made in the last 20 years or so, have recirculating oil systems like any other engine. Also they do have oil control rings so don't burn much if any oil.

A couple of other issues are though, the lack of finning, these engines are designed to run on methanol, which runs cooler than petrol, so don't need as much finning. The other issue is they are usually designed to be "laydown" engines, in that they are held in the frame nearly parallel to the ground. If you put them in a frame upright, there maybe scavanging issues.

Apart from all that, they are very strong, simple and well designed engines, that running methanol, chuck out a lot of power, 60hp +, and are designed to be pure race engines.

Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #679129
12/28/16 7:01 pm
12/28/16 7:01 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
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Andy Higham Offline
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Bolton Lancs UK
You are correct that modern speedway/grasstrack engines have a recirculating oil system. On the GM engine the oil is drawn into the crankshaft from the timing case by a scroll, the oil is returned to the timing case via a reed valve. Oil is carried up to the valve gear by the cam chain. Oil capacity is only about 0.8L
Weslake engines do not have these features.
There are companies that will convert a laydown engine to upright, it involves reworking the oiling system and re balancing the crank
You are underestimating the power of these engines, the GM500 offset crank engine produces around 85BHP @ 12,500RPM


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #679137
12/28/16 8:15 pm
12/28/16 8:15 pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 633
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bon Offline
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Yeah i know a lot of the speedway engines make a lot of power, twice what the old british road racing singles like the goldie made. Great engineering in them too, overhead cams, four valves, really good inlet porting.

Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #712138
10/21/17 5:05 pm
10/21/17 5:05 pm
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 56
Cambridge UK
Monty777 Offline
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Monty777  Offline
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Cambridge UK
Weslake did design a 4 valve ohc 500cc single which was going to be produced as a road race engine rather than a speedway motor. I believe they did produce 5-10 of them but didn't continue with the project. Mate of mine has one of the engines and the casting patterns as he intended to produce them for classic racing-don't know how far he has got with it though.

John


Growing Old-DISGRACEFULLY!
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #751393
10/03/18 4:26 pm
10/03/18 4:26 pm
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 306
Sacramento, CA
Denis J Offline

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Denis J  Offline

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Sacramento, CA
I have a donor Wessy and a Jawa 2 valve. Both are fitted with recirc pumps and run on methanol. The gasoline conversion is a piston swap.
Look on you tube. Jawa featherbed. He has the experience


The formula for how many motorcycles to own is:
n+1=n
n = the number of motorcycles you currently own.

“You can wheelie any bike if you just try”

Broken Motorcycle Mechanic at The Vintage Monkey in Sacramento, CA ...Old Motorcycle Specialists
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #751421
10/03/18 8:27 pm
10/03/18 8:27 pm
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 306
Sacramento, CA
Denis J Offline

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Denis J  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 306
Sacramento, CA
Originally Posted by Nick
Buddy of mine in Japan (a former gamble racer) has a 4-valve Weslake single engine around which he wants to build a classic racer.
Anyone have any info or parts for these rare birds?

Below is a pic of his current ride, built around a Meguro copy of the Triumph.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Note fire-breathing Japanese magneto, cylinder head drilled for lightness and cooling, Yamaha front brake, etc.
In a gamble-racer chassis this Meguro engine would be mated to a 2-speed g-box with chain primary, crank has adjustable weights in the flywheels, very, very trick and very powerful.


I need this engine


The formula for how many motorcycles to own is:
n+1=n
n = the number of motorcycles you currently own.

“You can wheelie any bike if you just try”

Broken Motorcycle Mechanic at The Vintage Monkey in Sacramento, CA ...Old Motorcycle Specialists
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Hillbilly bike] #751547
10/04/18 9:54 pm
10/04/18 9:54 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 769
Riverside, CA.
N
noisy norton Offline
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Posts: 769
Riverside, CA.
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
I think "Noisy Norton" who posts in the competition forum has a Weslake in a sidecar LSR machine??...


I have a 540 cc Weslake in my LSR sdiecar and a 500 cc Weslake in a featherbed. Weslakes are an amazing engine. The Norton is a former Bonneville and El Mirage record holder and the sidecar is a current Bonneville and El Mirage record holder. Best run for the Norton at El Mirage is 129.917 and the sidecar has been 130 at El Mirage and 132 at Bonneville. Both run on VP 110 gas. I didn't make any changes except for jetting and have had no cooling problems. I do run an extra bit of clearance on pistons. I did fit a piston with clearances for methanol and seized it solidly within a mile. I was recently given (yes, given) a 500 that has been taken out to 647 cc.. As I run in the 650 sidecar class this might level the playing field a bit.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


God rides a Triumph but wishes it was a Norton.
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #751548
10/04/18 9:59 pm
10/04/18 9:59 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,577
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline

DOPE
kevin roberts  Offline

DOPE

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,577
ohio, usa
as always, your featherbed is beautiful.

your sidecar is . . .

a winner!


"Are bikes so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? They're the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward on the handlebars. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes."
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #751562
10/04/18 11:51 pm
10/04/18 11:51 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 769
Riverside, CA.
N
noisy norton Offline
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Posts: 769
Riverside, CA.
Thanks Kevin. Singles just sound better!!

https://youtu.be/r5EBHbk3Ito


God rides a Triumph but wishes it was a Norton.
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: noisy norton] #752224
10/10/18 8:54 pm
10/10/18 8:54 pm
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 306
Sacramento, CA
Denis J Offline

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Denis J  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 306
Sacramento, CA
Originally Posted by noisy norton
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
I think "Noisy Norton" who posts in the competition forum has a Weslake in a sidecar LSR machine??...


I have a 540 cc Weslake in my LSR sdiecar and a 500 cc Weslake in a featherbed. Weslakes are an amazing engine. The Norton is a former Bonneville and El Mirage record holder and the sidecar is a current Bonneville and El Mirage record holder. Best run for the Norton at El Mirage is 129.917 and the sidecar has been 130 at El Mirage and 132 at Bonneville. Both run on VP 110 gas. I didn't make any changes except for jetting and have had no cooling problems. I do run an extra bit of clearance on pistons. I did fit a piston with clearances for methanol and seized it solidly within a mile. I was recently given (yes, given) a 500 that has been taken out to 647 cc.. As I run in the 650 sidecar class this might level the playing field a bit.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



My Hero

What did you run for piston clearance...I am getting ready to hone this 500 Wessy to .004" - using .0012 per inch of bore.


The formula for how many motorcycles to own is:
n+1=n
n = the number of motorcycles you currently own.

“You can wheelie any bike if you just try”

Broken Motorcycle Mechanic at The Vintage Monkey in Sacramento, CA ...Old Motorcycle Specialists
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Denis J] #752419
10/12/18 6:27 am
10/12/18 6:27 am
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 769
Riverside, CA.
N
noisy norton Offline
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Posts: 769
Riverside, CA.
.004" will be ok for short burst on methanol I run ERC110 race gas in mine. I run .006 - 007" in mine.. I put a new piston in the Norton years ago and Dave wasn't thinking and honed it to .004" At El Mirage its 1.3. miles to the lights I made it about a mile before it seized up. The seizure was around the whol of the piston. Not just in one spot. Andother new piston and .006"cllearance and the problem was solved.

This arrived today for the sidecar. A 647 cc Weslake. Standard stroke. 97.5 bore. Best part is a friend gave it to me. Said I should be running a 650 if I'm running in the 650 class.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by noisy norton; 10/13/18 10:26 pm.

God rides a Triumph but wishes it was a Norton.
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: noisy norton] #754585
10/30/18 5:54 pm
10/30/18 5:54 pm
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 306
Sacramento, CA
Denis J Offline

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Denis J  Offline

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Posts: 306
Sacramento, CA
man...so super cool.

OK
Not a short burst machine. Going with what you run. Still deciding between fuels. Looking to have this as a street/track day runner.

Last edited by Denis J; 10/30/18 5:57 pm.

The formula for how many motorcycles to own is:
n+1=n
n = the number of motorcycles you currently own.

“You can wheelie any bike if you just try”

Broken Motorcycle Mechanic at The Vintage Monkey in Sacramento, CA ...Old Motorcycle Specialists
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Nick] #754688
10/31/18 7:27 pm
10/31/18 7:27 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 769
Riverside, CA.
N
noisy norton Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 769
Riverside, CA.
Well, as you know gas burns hotter than methanol. I run gas. I've been told to lower the compression for a longer life but long life is not a priority in LSR. For a track bike I'd be tempted to lower the comp. a bit. Both my Weslakes run 14:1 comp. on race gas and have had no problems. But then the longest I run is three miles. I've been experimenting with an Aisin AMR 300 blower on the sidecar and I had some spacers made to lower the compression. Laser cut and very nice. If you want to lower the comp a bit for track use let me know and I'll send you a couple to try. I'd be curious too, to see if a lower comp. affects the performance. You might want to visit Facebook and have a look on the "English Competition Motorcycles" group. There are what seems like a gazillion Jawa speedway engines in motocrossers and a good few JAPs. They are all running for more than a few minutes. Its a friendly group and you can ask more questions.


God rides a Triumph but wishes it was a Norton.
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: noisy norton] #754692
10/31/18 8:20 pm
10/31/18 8:20 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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Andy Higham  Offline
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A

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
I used to sprint/drag race a Weslake with a Marshall supercharger @ 28PSI
It would do 10s on the 1/4 mile and the noise was incredible


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: Weslake 4-valve Single racer?? [Re: Andy Higham] #754729
11/01/18 3:28 am
11/01/18 3:28 am
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 769
Riverside, CA.
N
noisy norton Offline
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noisy norton  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 769
Riverside, CA.
Originally Posted by Andy Higham
I used to sprint/drag race a Weslake with a Marshall supercharger @ 28PSI
It would do 10s on the 1/4 mile and the noise was incredible


A blower sure makes a difference. I was experimenting and set it for 6 psi. But I was planning for more than 10 seconds. lol


https://youtu.be/PwX7jnW9rGA


God rides a Triumph but wishes it was a Norton.
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