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#710880 - 10/08/17 3:46 pm Which BSA and Why?  
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737Captain Offline
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Tampa Fl.
It’s time to continue to add to my stable. I have two Triumphs, Trident and Trailblazer, a Velocette Thruxton, plus numerous Honda, BMW.......

I want a BSA , the problem is I don’t know which one or what to look for. I want nice, not museum, reliable and 650 twin. ~$5000 ish.

Which is the one of choice, Spitfire? Lightning? Any particular year?

Thanks guys.


I'm not young enough to know everything.
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#710884 - 10/08/17 4:18 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Andy Higham Online content
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Bolton Lancs UK
Which 650 twin? A10 super rocket or RGS
Why? They are the best twins BSA ever made and look stunning


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#710885 - 10/08/17 4:50 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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scotland
I also think a swing arm A10 is a great bike to ride and damned good looking.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#710913 - 10/08/17 9:24 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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argyll. scotland, uk
A late A10 past 59 with an iron head, DA10 numbered motors are stronger ( D for bigger big ends and thicker flange barrels). The iron head keeps it quiet. A very handsome bike with great road manners. A particularly fine bike for a pillion passenger if you are going to ride two up, A10s are very comfortable .
A good magneto will keep an A10 running for decades.The stock 6 volt dynamo is pathetic by modern standards , it will light up the back and front but not a lot, the ammeter is about as much use as a dirty teacup with less of the predictive virtues. It will power the pilot lamp and rear lamp for daytime stuff/
Some very late police A10s came with an Alternator and a magneto, these are pretty rare .
An A10 is like a well fed wolf in steel sheep's clothing, not the lightest, but very solid feeling.


Or a late A65 Thunderbolt A65, single carb keeps it simple. 1970 was last of the dry frames, came with a better 2LS front brake , Lighter than an A10, a bit more nimble too, a wee bit quicler off the mark but more tappety as well. Similar predictable handling , with marginally better front forks.
For every day motoring the single carb models dont give anything away to the twin carbs, and they remove the carb synch chore.

Or my favorite the 71 onwards OIF A65s, which are still relatively good value/cheap, strongest motor of them all, but too tall and ugly/differnt for some.. Shares cycle parts with same era Triumphs , plenty still around.In general the later the A65 the better,

Early A65 models had 6 Volt electric, SLS brakes, crude forks .

Spitfires are highly strung , twin carbs with 10.5 :1 or lower compression, first A65 Spits had special GP carbs, later years went with concentrics.
Fibreglass fuel tanks were fitted to many, not good with modern fuel.
Other off road models include Hornet ( no lights, ET ignition, High comp) , Fire bird Scrambler( Barbecue attachment, small headlight).
The Hornet is a stripped to the bone machine, no frills, and would be most fun in a field or up a dirt road or for general hooliganism

Lightnings were essentially the same with less compression.68 onward got the 2LS brake ( a very good thing). A few got plastic tanks but most were steel.


.If you come across any of these models fitted with the crank end feed conversion its worth paying a bit extra for. Its a well proven fix for these motors.
If its been done the DPO , may not have been too D.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#710946 - 10/09/17 1:20 am Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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htown Online content
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Magnolia, TX
70 Thunderbolt, single carb so easier to tune, twin leading shoe brake, had the most improvements. Last model before the oil in frames.
But then again I may be prejudiced.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
#710948 - 10/09/17 1:28 am Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Lannis Online content
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Lannis  Online Content

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Central Virginia
I bought my '69 Firebird Scrambler because Mario Columbo's book "Motorcycles: Classics and Thoroughbreds" from 1970 had a picture of a red Firebird and when I was 16 I drooled over it and when I was 44 I finally bought one.

So much for how many carburetors and ease of service and what's best on the highway.

Buy it because you just have to.

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#710954 - 10/09/17 4:43 am Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Spitfire Ken Offline
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$5000 ish. ??? May buy you an A65, but if I were you I would add another 1 or2 thousand $$$; a decent A10 will go much higher


The Devil is in the details.

1957 BSA A10 Spitfire Scrambler (number matching, very correct in decent condition)
1965 BSA A65 Lightning Rocket "Clubman" (restored)
1966 BSA A65 Spitfire MK-II (restored)
2001 Kawasaki W650
#710975 - 10/09/17 12:04 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: gavin eisler]  
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737Captain Offline
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Tampa Fl.
[]Gavin,
Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a comprehensive post. I feel much more educated.

Last edited by 737Captain; 10/09/17 12:05 pm.

I'm not young enough to know everything.
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#710984 - 10/09/17 1:17 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Adam M. Online content
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Quite a different feel between one and 2 carb version of pre OIF BSA according to my experience, much more torque down low with one carb version, much easier in town.
2 carb version accelerates stronger and better top end, but needs lower gears in town. 68 - 70 models the best to use in modern traffic, OIF as well if you like them aesthetically.

#711012 - 10/09/17 4:13 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: gavin eisler]  
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Rich B Online happy
Rich B  Online Happy



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Stone Creek OH USA
Gonna tag onto Gavin's post. Lots of good stuff there....

A10 - if not already done is going to likely require the magneto and dynamo to be rebuilt. Factor that into your price. The rebuild of those 2 components are not cheap and tend to be slow turn around. But, you can get the dynamo set up for 12V which helps a lot with the lighting thing. Brakes tend to be dodgy, though with some work, a TLS can be adapted to the late forks.

My current pre-unit is a single, but gotta say, the handling is quite good. Same frame geometry. Forks can be a little crude, but Dow damper rods fix a lot of that. Very comfortable bike to ride.

A65 - Lots of choices for an A65. Lots of comments about going single carb. I have always had dual carb and don't really find that to be much of a maintenance headache at all. Get them set up right the first time and they do tend to work. But, I will say, I have one bike with monoblocks.......ain't gonna do that again. They are truly a PIA to keep synched and working correctly. The Concentric equipped bikes are almost maintenance free. YMMV

A65's steer like the pre-units, but IMO are easier to change lines with and are more responsive. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Both styles are incredibly competent road bikes in the twisties. They both work. Early A65's are like the A10's with the same basic crude forks. Dow damper rods are the solution.

68 - 70's have the best brakes and are the most developed (less the OIF) bikes and are commonly available. Thunderbolt, Lightning, Firebird are all good choices.

Spitfire's tend to command higher prices.

Hornet's are just fun and rude. If you are looking for 60's hooligan bike, then find a Hornet.

For a truly different ride, why not a 64/65 Lightning Rocket. They have a lot of unique styling features not found on the later bikes, seem to be attractive on price still, and IMO, are slightly better turning bikes than the later A65's due to the 19" tire. I have both style rear tires, and my bike with the 19" seems like it turns in just a touch better.

Downside, if the electrical system is stock, there is a lot of evil that can hide within the miles of wires. easily fixed by updating to a 67 style electrics and not hard to do. Front forks are the early crude forks, Dow damper rods are your friend. Front brake is ok, but can be easily upgraded to the later half width brake that is wider and actually not bad at all.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#711062 - 10/10/17 2:22 am Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Shane in Oz Online content
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Something like Andrew Dunham's Thunderbolt listed over on the Garage Sale board might be just the thing.
As Gavin and Rich have said, the late dry frame Thunderbolts are very pleasant machines with more traditional styling than the oil in frame models which followed.
If Ohio is a bit far to travel, they seem to turn up in Florida on fairly regular basis. It's nice to be able to keep bikes in the BB "family", though.

#711076 - 10/10/17 4:58 am Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: htown]  
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Originally Posted by htown
70 Thunderbolt, single carb so easier to tune, twin leading shoe brake, had the most improvements. Last model before the oil in frames.
But then again I may be prejudiced.



I agree 100%. 1970 is the best

I even did a blog on this topic: https://www.classicbritishspares.com/blogs/news/why-the-1970-bsa-a65-is-the-best-year

#711179 - 10/11/17 4:01 am Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Andrew Dunham Online content
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Andrew Dunham  Online Content
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Ohio
Thank you for the link, Shane.

Hi 737Captain, if you truly do fly 737's that's very cool.

If you are interested, please send me a PM. It needs work, but nothing serious. I would be under your price mark.

Last edited by Andrew Dunham; 10/11/17 4:01 am.

1968 BSA A50
1969 BSA 441 VS
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
#711207 - 10/11/17 4:08 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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bon Online content
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bon  Online Content
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Regards the lighting on the A10 or any other dynamo powered system, are things like led bulbs worthwhile as they use a lot less electricity ?

#711224 - 10/11/17 7:46 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: htown]  
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Ignoramus Online content
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Ignoramus  Online Content
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Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by htown
70 Thunderbolt, single carb so easier to tune, twin leading shoe brake, had the most improvements. Last model before the oil in frames.
But then again I may be prejudiced.


no "may be prejudiced" in my case i am blatantly prejudiced. ........i recon the 70 was the A65 peak. Personally i would go for the Lightning twin carbs dont take that much mastering and you get a rev counter. Besides they realy do look good ...........get a blue one. Ive only had mine 47 years but time will tell if i really do like it.


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
#711309 - 10/12/17 12:27 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: Andrew Dunham]  
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737Captain Offline
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Tampa Fl.
Andrew,

I do fly a 737, I’ve been with Southwest Airlines since January 2000.

I did look st your bike for sale and it’s the sort of thing I was thinking about buying. I am no mechanic and I’m a bit concerned about the welded on shifter, what would it take to replace it? I assume cut it off the shaft and replace the shaft and lever.

Is the tank repairable do you know? I see some folks saying they can repair tank dents but it would then require re-chrome I guess.

The other thing I was told is that there is a bush at one end of the crank which can cause problems. There is a Mod to change it to a bearing, do you know if your bike has that Mod.

Very interested.


I'm not young enough to know everything.
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#711315 - 10/12/17 3:35 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Lannis Online content
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Central Virginia
Originally Posted by 737Captain
Andrew,

The other thing I was told is that there is a bush at one end of the crank which can cause problems. There is a Mod to change it to a bearing, do you know if your bike has that Mod.

Very interested.


That bushing conversion is not the same sort of issue as the layshaft bearing in a Norton, which MUST be done, or the flat tappet conversion on an 8-valve Guzzi, which MUST be done or ruin the engine.

Very many A65s run for many tens of thousands of miles on the original design bushing (like mine). If it's installed correctly and the crank shimmed correctly, and the bike has good oil pressure, the bushing will last as long as the bearing conversion. I know of A65s with 60K+ miles on them running on the original bushing.

When I get mine rebuilt someday (don't know when, it's doing fine), I won't do the bushing-to-bearing conversion. If you maintain the bike and don't abuse it, it's not going to make a big difference. I certainly wouldn't use it as the discriminator as to whether to buy an otherwise nice bike or not ....

We have another Southwest airline pilot on the list who rides massive miles on A65 BSAs with the original bushing, I'm sure you'll spot him soon!

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#711327 - 10/12/17 4:27 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Adam M. Online content
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Adam M.  Online Content
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+ 1 to Lannis comment.
Did 20 thousands miles on my A65 in the last 10 years and sold it 2 month ago, and am pretty sure the new owner will make another 20 thousands easily without going into the cases.
What's important is to install additional oil filter on the return oil line to keep engine healthy, that's it.

#711333 - 10/12/17 5:16 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: Adam M.]  
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Lannis Online content
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Lannis  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Adam M.
+ 1 to Lannis comment.
Did 20 thousands miles on my A65 in the last 10 years and sold it 2 month ago, and am pretty sure the new owner will make another 20 thousands easily without going into the cases.
What's important is to install additional oil filter on the return oil line to keep engine healthy, that's it.


And +1 to Adam's oil filter comment. It'll make the bushing last as long as the conversion bearing .... I have the external filters on mine.

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#711338 - 10/12/17 5:58 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: Lannis]  
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Rich B Online happy
Rich B  Online Happy



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Stone Creek OH USA
It is just a good idea to run an oil filter on the bikes today. Technology has advanced a bit since the original BSA twin was designed in the 40's! laughing


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#711375 - 10/12/17 10:16 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Andrew Dunham Online content
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Andrew Dunham  Online Content
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Ohio
Very cool. I fly Southwest 4-6 times a month; maybe I was one of your passengers, haha.

The welded shift arm does intrigue me a bit. I assume it’s because the splines has worn down and the lever wasn’t staying tight. I haven’t gotten brave enough to grind the weld off and see what’s underneath. I don’t know how to weld, so fixing it would be difficult for me, but not for someone who knew what they were doing. It operates nicely. No slop (imagine that...). I haven’t had a need to get into the timing side case yet, so I haven’t bothered.

Maybe someone can comment if I’m wrong, but I believe the splines wearing down is fairly common. I think I’ve read that some cut the shaft in half and weld a new spline section on. I’m sure others replace the entire shaft.

As far as the tank goes. It is on my list to contact people about removing the dents. I don’t want it to damage the existing chrome, as it is in decent shape.


1968 BSA A50
1969 BSA 441 VS
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
#711521 - 10/14/17 2:32 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Andrew Dunham Online content
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Andrew Dunham  Online Content
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Ohio
Just thought I would send an update about the shift shaft repair if anyone was interested...

With my Dad's curiosity propelling me, I decided to grind the weld off and have a look inside. It turns out that the entire shift quadrant can be replaced by removing the two timing side engine covers, removing the kick start spring and the points wires.

I was able to find a NOS shift quadrant from Mikes Classic Cycle Spares in Australia and ordered a couple (my A50 needs one as well.) Hopefully shipping won't be too long to the US. Should be an easy job putting the NOS one in.

Here is what the end of the shaft looks like: [Linked Image]

And here is the entire piece out: [Linked Image]

I was careful to not grind away the shaft and only the weld, as I thought I may need the total overall length of the splined section if I had to get it welded onto the other half.


1968 BSA A50
1969 BSA 441 VS
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
#711613 - 10/15/17 2:21 am Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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737Captain Offline
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Tampa Fl.
Very nice, please keep me updated.


I'm not young enough to know everything.
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#711783 - 10/17/17 8:23 am Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: Andrew Dunham]  
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BSA_WM20 Online content
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Originally Posted by Andrew Dunham
Just thought I would send an update about the shift shaft repair if anyone was interested...

With my Dad's curiosity propelling me, I decided to grind the weld off and have a look inside. It turns out that the entire shift quadrant can be replaced by removing the two timing side engine covers, removing the kick start spring and the points wires.

I was able to find a NOS shift quadrant from Mikes Classic Cycle Spares in Australia and ordered a couple (my A50 needs one as well.) Hopefully shipping won't be too long to the US. Should be an easy job putting the NOS one in.

Here is what the end of the shaft looks like: [Linked Image]

And here is the entire piece out: [Linked Image]

I was careful to not grind away the shaft and only the weld, as I thought I may need the total overall length of the splined section if I had to get it welded onto the other half.


There was a few mobs doing shaft replacement on an exchange basis.
Used to be one in Melbourne ( Aust ) and a few in the UK


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#711796 - 10/17/17 1:14 pm Re: Which BSA and Why? [Re: 737Captain]  
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Andrew Dunham Online content
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Andrew Dunham  Online Content
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Ohio
That's good to know. I wouldn't mind sending this old one off to be fixed so someone else can use it as soon as I get the others installed.


1968 BSA A50
1969 BSA 441 VS
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
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