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Amal Premier Float Height? #708615
09/16/17 1:27 am
09/16/17 1:27 am
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Lancaster, California
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I have AMAL Premiers installed on 3 of my personal bikes including a (2) 1969 BSA A65L's and a 1968 Triumph TR6R.

The 1968 Triumph TR6R and my 1969 BSA A65L both have the smallest pilot (RJ15) but both seem to still run rich. No choke needed, tickle and it starts very easily.

I have not played with the float heights on the new Premier carbs. I typically install them "as-is" in regards to the float height.

Question, where do most of you set the float height on the new AMAL Premiers? .060 .080?

I only have original Triumph and AMAL documents on float heights but I am not sure if they can be applied to the new carbs.

My 1968 Triumph TR6R surges which appears to be from running rich only if the throttle is held in a certain position (not in motion). Timing spot on, valves checked (just rebuild), etc.

I would love to get some feedback on this from you. Thanks!

Last edited by C.B.S; 09/16/17 1:28 am.
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Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #708631
09/16/17 9:54 am
09/16/17 9:54 am
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Scotland
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I need to look at the carbs on my Commando as one carb is running weak on warm up and it must be fuel height as I can get it working by adding an extra tickle after 20 secs. As for float height I will instead be measure fuel height as a preference as that is what needs to be the same between 2 carbs.

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #708634
09/16/17 10:54 am
09/16/17 10:54 am
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Norfolk, UK
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Originally Posted by C.B.S
Question, where do most of you set the float height on the new Amal Premiers? .060 .080?


AMAL no longer recommends setting by 'float height'.

http://amalcarb.co.uk/optimising-mark-1-concentric-fuel-levels

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #708638
09/16/17 11:39 am
09/16/17 11:39 am
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Duesseldorf/Germany
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I have installed a set of Premier carbs recently on my rebuilt 71 Firebird Scrambler.

Initially I had set the float height to .080" resp. 2 mm below float bowl top. The carbs had the #17 pilot jets.
The bike was too lean, as I had the air screws down to 0.5 turns out to get a reasonable tickover. When the bike was hot tickover was bad. I am perfectly aware that the exhaust pipes are not too helpful as the tend to warm up the LH carb.
After having installed #19 pilot jets and raised the float height flush with the float bowl, tickover is as it should be. Air screws are set to approx. 1.5 turns out.

I know that Burlen recommends to look for fuel height but due to the restricted access I opted to stick to the float heights.

FWIW

Cheers!

Ph.


Best regards
Phil
Duesseldorf/Germany
'62 A 65 Star (disassembled)
'69 A 65 Lightning
'71 A 65 Firebird
'75 T 160
'84 Yamaha SR 500
Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #708648
09/16/17 1:47 pm
09/16/17 1:47 pm
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Hi CBS,

I have used these instructions recently with some success:

http://www.jba.bc.ca/Bushmans%20Carb%20Tuning.html#5FLOAT

http://www.gregmarsh.com/mc/afh.pdf

I do like the metal tang on the "stay up" floats supplied with the premiere carbs.

I tried to keep the level such that the top of the float was even with the top of the bowl, but that seemed much too high and when I went to tickle the carb, fuel was leaking out the gasket surface. I dropped down to 0.2" below the gasket surface and it seems much better.


1968 BSA A50
1969 BSA 441 VS
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: L.A.B.] #708663
09/16/17 3:55 pm
09/16/17 3:55 pm
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Lancaster, California
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Originally Posted by L.A.B.
Originally Posted by C.B.S
Question, where do most of you set the float height on the new Amal Premiers? .060 .080?


AMAL no longer recommends setting by 'float height'.

http://amalcarb.co.uk/optimising-mark-1-concentric-fuel-levels





Thanks for that link. Interesting

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: kommando] #708664
09/16/17 3:57 pm
09/16/17 3:57 pm
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Originally Posted by kommando
I need to look at the carbs on my Commando as one carb is running weak on warm up and it must be fuel height as I can get it working by adding an extra tickle after 20 secs. As for float height I will instead be measure fuel height as a preference as that is what needs to be the same between 2 carbs.



I will check the fuel height. I made a jig by using a brass drain plug, tapping it and installing a main jet with a hose slipped over it.

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: Andrew Dunham] #708665
09/16/17 3:57 pm
09/16/17 3:57 pm
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Originally Posted by Andrew Dunham
Hi CBS,

I have used these instructions recently with some success:

http://www.jba.bc.ca/Bushmans%20Carb%20Tuning.html#5FLOAT

http://www.gregmarsh.com/mc/afh.pdf

I do like the metal tang on the "stay up" floats supplied with the premiere carbs.

I tried to keep the level such that the top of the float was even with the top of the bowl, but that seemed much too high and when I went to tickle the carb, fuel was leaking out the gasket surface. I dropped down to 0.2" below the gasket surface and it seems much better.



Thank you Andrew!!

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #708710
09/16/17 11:10 pm
09/16/17 11:10 pm
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Ohio
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I did the recommended procedure from AMAL and the links I posted the other day; but used water instead.

I had an external fuel tank full of water and was able to fill the bowl several times to check the level without the smell and loss of precious gas!

It was fairly simple. Let the bowl fill until the float needle stop the flow and measure the gap.


1968 BSA A50
1969 BSA 441 VS
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #708734
09/17/17 3:48 am
09/17/17 3:48 am
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Montana, USA
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When using water to check the fuel level, it is necessary to do some math to take into account the higher density of water. Because of the higher density the float will be higher in the water and shut off the water at a different level than when floating in gas.


Craig Zaspel

T100R
BSA A10
Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: Dr. Z] #708986
09/19/17 8:29 pm
09/19/17 8:29 pm
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Originally Posted by Dr. Z
When using water to check the fuel level, it is necessary to do some math to take into account the higher density of water. Because of the higher density the float will be higher in the water and shut off the water at a different level than when floating in gas.



That's a great point.


Still running rich.... Will fiddle with this some more.

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #709023
09/20/17 1:08 am
09/20/17 1:08 am
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Let us know if you get it right, CBS. I think I'm close but still a bit rich as well.


1968 BSA A50
1969 BSA 441 VS
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #709116
09/20/17 8:45 pm
09/20/17 8:45 pm
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Will do Andrew!!

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #709141
09/21/17 3:08 am
09/21/17 3:08 am
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So here is what I found....

(testing on my '68 Triumph TR6R - bone stock)

I made a jig and got the fuel level slightly over .240 from the top of the bowl. I used gas and did this while the carb was mounted on the bike.

After everything was set I turned the fuel on and gas started coming out of the back down the air filter.

I took the bowl off and put the float height back to .080" where I had set it before. Still smells rich while on the pilot at idle. No choke needed... ever

On the road about 4K @70 mph (long Lancaster roads) the plugs check out very nice. For the cool weather its spot on, but summer I would raise the needle one notch.

Main jet is @230.

I may try another throttle slide cutaway or play with the air screw to try to lean it out some more on the pilot. I'm running the RJ15 pilot which is the smallest AMAL Premier pilot jet you can get.

I emailed AMAL and they stated to me that my problem is not common... They said the get more complaints about the Premiers running lean or weak, not rich.

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #709159
09/21/17 2:42 pm
09/21/17 2:42 pm
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This is interesting to me. I have Premiers on my 441 and my B50. I also have chokes on both bikes. I start my 441 like any other single from cold, choke on, tickle till gas comes out. If I tickle the B50 enough that gas comes out (which only takes a second), it won't start. If I just push the tickler down for a millisecond, it fires right up. The float is basically level with the bowl. Plugs look fine on both bikes. I tried adjusting the float, but it didn't change anything. So now I just accept that my B50 starts differently from everything else I have!

Ed from NJ

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: Dr. Z] #709966
09/29/17 8:14 am
09/29/17 8:14 am
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Originally Posted by Dr. Z
When using water to check the fuel level, it is necessary to do some math to take into account the higher density of water. Because of the higher density the float will be higher in the water and shut off the water at a different level than when floating in gas.


I was going to write the same thing until you posted this haha. For the sakes of an egg cup full of fuel, your wiser to use that... Also the height of your feed pipe will increase the fuel pressure lifting the float or not lifting it depending on how close/far away the head point of your "tank" you are..

Whilst I have known this for years (through setting float heights) I was still surprised to find how lean my A65 would seem to run when it had little fuel in the tank and a "re-fill" would sort the problem... Never had this with the 2 gallon tank though.


beerchug
Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #710079
09/30/17 5:39 pm
09/30/17 5:39 pm
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I've tried messing around with fuel levels instead of float levels long time ago, but I came to the conclusion that it isn't worth the hassle. If setting the float levels is good enough for production it's good enough for me. I never use the .080" figure either, anything between .040" and level seems to work fine for me. Even my Trident runs really well with ca .030" to .040".
I use nylon float needles and they never flood. The brass ones gave me so much trouble with flooding, poor starting and lean running that I gave them up, the aluminum needles seems to work very well.
CBS, try to determine if your Premier idle jet is seating properly, it may sound like fuel is leaking past it? The TR6 I tried to tune the carb on this spring was too lean with a .017" jet (2 groove), and I advised the owner to try a .019" (3 groove). He hasn't got around to it yet though.

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: Stein Roger] #710604
10/05/17 2:36 pm
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Originally Posted by Stein Roger
I've tried messing around with fuel levels instead of float levels long time ago, but I came to the conclusion that it isn't worth the hassle. If setting the float levels is good enough for production it's good enough for me. I never use the .080" figure either, anything between .040" and level seems to work fine for me. Even my Trident runs really well with ca .030" to .040".
I use nylon float needles and they never flood. The brass ones gave me so much trouble with flooding, poor starting and lean running that I gave them up, the aluminum needles seems to work very well.
CBS, try to determine if your Premier idle jet is seating properly, it may sound like fuel is leaking past it? The TR6 I tried to tune the carb on this spring was too lean with a .017" jet (2 groove), and I advised the owner to try a .019" (3 groove). He hasn't got around to it yet though.



I was messing with the fuel level - got it where it should be then it started to flood. At that point I was tired of fooling around with it. I set the float to .080" and it runs rich even with a .015" pilot jet. I will remove the pilot and examine the o-ring and seating. I will report back soon.

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #710682
10/06/17 3:32 am
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Originally Posted by C.B.S
I was messing with the fuel level - got it where it should be then it started to flood. At that point I was tired of fooling around with it. I set the float to .080" and it runs rich even with a .015" pilot jet. I will remove the pilot and examine the o-ring and seating. I will report back soon.


Setting the level to .080" and mine was flooding as well. Many a gasket have been wet in recent weeks.


1968 BSA A50
1969 BSA 441 VS
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: Andrew Dunham] #710803
10/07/17 5:07 pm
10/07/17 5:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Andrew Dunham
Originally Posted by C.B.S
I was messing with the fuel level - got it where it should be then it started to flood. At that point I was tired of fooling around with it. I set the float to .080" and it runs rich even with a .015" pilot jet. I will remove the pilot and examine the o-ring and seating. I will report back soon.


Setting the level to .080" and mine was flooding as well. Many a gasket have been wet in recent weeks.



Strange stuff. I hear folks say there AMAL Premier runs too lean and I would say they run too rich... hmmm the joys of owning a vintage Triumph

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #711079
10/10/17 5:12 am
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I'm going to throw in a .105 needle jet and see what happens

Last edited by C.B.S; 10/10/17 5:15 am.
Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #711181
10/11/17 4:28 am
10/11/17 4:28 am
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...the .080 never worked for me with a 626, flood like yours

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: reverb] #711209
10/11/17 4:40 pm
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Originally Posted by reverb
...the .080 never worked for me with a 626, flood like yours


What did you set yours at?

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #711239
10/11/17 8:41 pm
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I installed a .105" needle that measures out at about .1055. I installed it along with my small RJ15 pilot jet. Upon start up it ran way to lean. So installed the factory RJ17 pilot and it ran great... but too rich (burn your eyes out). So at this point I will go back to my .106" needle jet and RJ15 pilot. That seems to be the best set-up. I just wish I could figure out this rich issue on the pilot

Re: Amal Premier Float Height? [Re: C.B.S] #711301
10/12/17 8:37 am
10/12/17 8:37 am
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Try looking at the air supply route for the air feed to the pilot jet, any restriction there will give you a rich pilot mixture regardless of jet size.

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