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Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704247
08/07/17 7:24 pm
08/07/17 7:24 pm
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benny jensen Offline OP
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hi john...i allready did that job several times, so i dont think the problem is there...but thanks for the input, and i hope that your engine is running better now...
benny

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Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704712
08/12/17 11:05 am
08/12/17 11:05 am
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benny jensen Offline OP
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today i discovered, that most ( 100cc) of the oil from the primary "disappears". the remaining 50 cc is mixed with engine oil, which is sae 50 monograde oil.... i first discovered today, that from 70 and on, there is connection between primary and engine. and mybee the noise i am getting is because of lacking of oil in the primary.
my guess is, that the difference in viscosity does the migration, what do you think?
regards benny

Last edited by benny jensen; 08/12/17 11:54 am.
Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704714
08/12/17 12:04 pm
08/12/17 12:04 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,025
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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Do not use 50 monograde in a Triumph in a temperate climate. It is too thick to feed the oil pump by gravity, when the engine is cold.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704721
08/12/17 12:50 pm
08/12/17 12:50 pm
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benny jensen Offline OP
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hi triton: the manual say 40, but i have been running with 20/50, so i hoped that using 50 would resolve my noise-problem, but it didnt....

Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704797
08/12/17 6:34 pm
08/12/17 6:34 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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Originally Posted by benny jensen
hi triton: the manual say 40, but i have been running with 20/50, so i hoped that using 50 would resolve my noise-problem, but it didnt....


Running straight 50W will only create MORE noises as the engine wears out very rapidly.


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704805
08/12/17 7:30 pm
08/12/17 7:30 pm
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benny jensen Offline OP
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hi rf...i just tried the 50 grade to see if it dampened the noise...i will go back to 20-50...but do you have a solution on my other problems...engine noise around 3000 rpm, and clutch trying to engage when rev it to around same rpm's...maybee there is a connection?

Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704810
08/12/17 7:57 pm
08/12/17 7:57 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,459
Scotland
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Benny,

Originally Posted by benny jensen
the manual say 40,

No, it does not for 1971. 1969 was the last year that Triumph recommended monograde 40; from 1970, Triumph recommended 20w50, without any relevant changes to either 500's or 650's. So 20w50 is backwards-compatible certainly to a '69 500. Also, "triton thrasher" is correct - especially if you and the bike are in Denmark, monograde 50 is too thick for the ambient temperature when the oil is cold, you could end up damaging the engine when the "noise-problem" is nothing. frown

Originally Posted by benny jensen
i first discovered today, that from 70 and on, there is connection between primary and engine.
my guess is, that the difference in viscosity does the migration,

No.

Because "there is connection between primary and engine", you cannot have different-viscosity oils in primary and engine; the oil tank should have 20w50 (or 15w50) for the engine and the primary must have the same as the engine.

Originally Posted by benny jensen
today i discovered, that most ( 100cc) of the oil from the primary "disappears". the remaining 50 cc is mixed with engine oil,

One "connection between primary and engine" is the crankcase vents through the drive-side main bearing into the primary, and then through the cast aluminium 90-degree bend and attached pipe at the rear of the primary to atmosphere.

The other "connection" is some small holes (usually three) between the primary and engine, usually in about the four o'clock position behind the alternator stator and primary sprocket. These holes allow any oil vented from the crankcase that condenses in the primary to drain back into the crankcase. By definition, they also set the oil level in the primary, irrespective of the oil quantity you pour in - 150 cc. is only advisory to ensure there is some lubricant for the bottom run of the chain to dip into and fling around to lubricate the clutch parts. By the way, this is another reason why you should not use monograde 50; the speed of the primary chain means it will cut through the oil in the primary, picking up almost none, especially when the oil is cold.

Originally Posted by Stuart
Can you hear the noise if pull the clutch lever when you rev?

Originally Posted by benny jensen
do you have an idea if the noise is there or not, pulling the clutch lever?

I thought it might be the cush-drive rubbers in the clutch; if even only some have disintegrated, there is a noise, that disappears when you pull the clutch lever.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704815
08/12/17 8:18 pm
08/12/17 8:18 pm
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benny jensen Offline OP
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hi stuart...
thanks for answer...i will go back to 20/50 tomorrow... do you think there is a connection between the noise and the clutch trying to engage... as it appears app. in the same rev range?.and why do you think the cluch is trying to engage at all, with the lever is drawn?
benny

Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704867
08/13/17 2:22 pm
08/13/17 2:22 pm
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benny jensen Offline OP
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hi again stuart...i forgot to reply to your question regarding cluch lever....the noise is there, and don't change whether the lever is drawn or not...

i now changed the oil in motor and primary to 20/50...and it still puzzles me, that the most of the 150 cc i put in the primary disappears into the motor...

do you know how much oil in primary is absolut minimum for the chain to be lubed?

regards benny

Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704869
08/13/17 2:32 pm
08/13/17 2:32 pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,712
Bishop, Calif.
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desco Online content
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Not much. Next time you have the primary cover off, fire the bike up. Hang a sheet of newspaper next to the spinning parts. In seconds it will be dripping with oil. 35 years ago I used to stay up at night worrying about that same question. Not anymore.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704870
08/13/17 2:53 pm
08/13/17 2:53 pm
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benny jensen Offline OP
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hi desco...my sleep will be much better this night...funny that factory recommends 150 cc, if it only needs maybee 50...
thanks for joining
regards benny

Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704882
08/13/17 4:10 pm
08/13/17 4:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,505
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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argyll. scotland, uk
If the clutch is attempting to engage when revved this suggests that the main shaft is moving axially, make sure the nut securing the mainshaft at the RH end of the shaft is tight and that all spacers/ thrust washers are in the correct place, on my BSA I forgot to fit a thrust washer to the kick start ratchet mech and had a similar result.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
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Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704885
08/13/17 4:35 pm
08/13/17 4:35 pm
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benny jensen Offline OP
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hi gavin...i think you may have a point here...i have a little slack in the kickstarter ( bush ), and it is moving a little bit when i am shifting gears...i will go for a ride, and return tomorrow.
regards benny

Re: clatter from newly rebuild t100r, daytona 1971 [Re: benny jensen] #704967
08/14/17 1:23 pm
08/14/17 1:23 pm
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benny jensen Offline OP
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hi gavin...you were right about the axial movement i had app. 1 - 1,5 mm. i put a cobber washer on the shaft, pulled the axel out, and made sure, that the kickstarter arm close to the cobber washer, and tightened the nut carefully....there is still a very little drag when i put it 1. gear, with the cluchlever drawn, but now it first starts around 6000 rpm, so i have a smaller problem here... however the noise is still there....damned
i borrowed at stetoscope and the noise is very clear when i listen to the primary case, the rest of the motor don't have special loud noises...except for a high frequent whining from the gearbox...
benny

Last edited by benny jensen; 08/14/17 1:30 pm.
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