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#704358 - 08/08/17 9:05 pm 69/74 Engine rebuild  
Joined: Mar 2006
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htown Online content
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htown  Online Content
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Magnolia, TX
This was a thread on my struggles with my 69/74 bitsa. http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=689483&page=13 Because of the broken photo links thanks to photo bucket I have decided to start a new thread on the engine and gearbox rebuild along with new fotki photo links. I may eventually go back and fix the links in the older thread but right now I have better ways to spend my time. Where that thread left off I had made the bike rideable and it was actually running pretty good, good enough for me to take it on some longer rides and find out the oil pressure was marginal at best at sub 40psi at 4000 rpm. The clutch was also slipping badly, so the primary had to come apart. Once I got it apart, I decided to go ahead and strip the engine and replace the bearings. Here's some pics from the strip down.
Here she is before the strip down
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Badly glazed clutch, will replace with new.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Drive chain sprocket was a fight getting off. Heat and an impact gun finally got it. Had to special order the socket
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Head off. I have recently replaced the valves.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Top cylinders, compression was 140,135,130
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
cylinders off, pistons had been knurled at some point, standard bore will go +20 and new pistons and rings
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Cylinders are glazed and show some light scoring.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
gear box apart
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
More to follow.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
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#704404 - 08/09/17 9:52 am Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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tridentt150v Online content
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Great Southern Land
Timing side piston looks like its been hammered from a previous encounter with a metal let go!!! Head has scars as well. That can't be good smile

What is the significance of the MML stamps? I can't remember seeing that before but my memory isn't eidetic.

Last edited by tridentt150v; 08/09/17 9:54 am.
#704429 - 08/09/17 2:32 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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Tridentman Online content
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Indicates gradated bore size for piston fitment.
Pistons on initial build came in three sizes for standard bore---Large, Medium and Small.
After first rebore it is of course irrelevant.

#704433 - 08/09/17 3:10 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: Tridentman]  
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L.A.B. Online content
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Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by Tridentman
Indicates gradated bore size for piston fitment.
Pistons on initial build came in three sizes for standard bore---Large, Medium and Small.


L-Low (smallest), M-Medium, H-High.

Later, just L and H.

#704434 - 08/09/17 3:42 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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Thanks Les--I stand corrected.

#704441 - 08/09/17 5:16 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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Magnolia, TX
If this engine could talk it probably could tell some tales. Definitely some hard object in the timing cylinder. Piston is getting replaced and I removed any sharp edges from the divot in the head to prevent hot spots. Bottom end is from a 69 while rest of engine appears to be 74 same as the frame. More tear down pics.
Crank has been reground at least once. When I miked the journals I found the rods were -.010 but mains were actually -0.20, no indication stamped anywhere.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Main journal showing scoring. I'm thinking maybe on the second regrind the cleanout plugs weren't removed and debris damaged the journals
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Main bearings. Also the caps were switched side to side. Guess the po didn't know what the t & d stood for. Being a 69 the caps had the rocker feeds but they were blanked off.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Typical rod journal
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Rod bearings
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Exhaust cam has a divot in it, its getting replaced. Got a good deal on the pair, so a new intake too.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Lifters are badly scuffed so new stellite tipped ones
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
I seriously debated whether to strip this engine or not. Based on what I've seen I'm glad I did. Crank and cylinders went to Big D in Dallas for a regrind and +20 over bore.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
#704596 - 08/11/17 5:24 am Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: L.A.B.]  
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tridentt150v Online content
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Great Southern Land
Originally Posted by L.A.B.
Originally Posted by Tridentman
Indicates gradated bore size for piston fitment.
Pistons on initial build came in three sizes for standard bore---Large, Medium and Small.


L-Low (smallest), M-Medium, H-High.

Later, just L and H.

OK, who did it?? and when did they stop doing it....I have never seen it on any '73 on Trident I've worked on and I've seen a few [never worked on a pre '73].

#704615 - 08/11/17 12:52 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: tridentt150v]  
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Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by tridentt150v

OK, who did it?? and when did they stop doing it....I have never seen it on any '73 on Trident I've worked on and I've seen a few [never worked on a pre '73].


http://www.ebay.com/itm/BSA-A75R-Rocket-3-Mk1-750-Triple-A75-Trident-III-HURRICANE-TOP-END-CYLINDERS-/142212179729?hash=item211c81a711:g:P7wAAOSw-0xYUYkk&vxp=mtr

[Linked Image]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-T160-750-Trident-Cylinder-Barrel-Pistons-1069-/372040726660

[Linked Image]

#704645 - 08/11/17 5:23 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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Magnolia, TX
Now to start putting it back together. The strip down photos were taken a while back. I've found this series of videos on Youtube to be quite helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg8gvkWQ6io
Reground crank, access plugs removed and oil ways cleaned, new plugs.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Rods polished and new bearing shells fitted.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Rods on crank, will fit middle cylinder with barrel
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
New main bearings
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Crank in the center case
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
New cams ready to install, nos standard grind
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Drive and timing cases installed. Crank turns buttery smooth.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
#704653 - 08/11/17 7:19 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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ca, us
I do not think the scoring on the journals is from a previous regrind. There is only the cross drilling for the oilways and plugs, not a clean-out per say. Dirt trapped beyond the hole to the bearing will stay there from centripetal force. Anything up to the bearing hole or dirt in the oil will get to the journal.
As an alternative to grinding the crank further you can have the journals hard face built up and reground for nearly the same cost. They would be less sensitive to scoring.

#704837 - 08/13/17 1:32 am Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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Magnolia, TX
Thanks for the suggestion DM. Crank has already been reground. I still have one more grind on the mains and two on the big ends. Hope I never need to see the crank again. Considering my age and amount of miles each bike gets, if its done right I shouldn't.
Timing gears installed today.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Strange grooves on one of the drive side tappet blocks. Has two matching grooves on the other side but not as deep. Almost like the tappet was forced from side to side. Tappet fits in there nice and smooth now and doesn't rock side to side. Wondering if it would be okay or need to replace. Not sure how to replace it. All of the tappet tools I see for sale have 2 pins. No instructions in manual.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
#704840 - 08/13/17 2:22 am Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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DMadigan Offline
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My guess is the face of the tappet was not square to the shaft. Your tappet faces were fairly scuffed. As the tappet was lifted it would twist twist one way then twist the other on the falling side.
There is a plug in the face of the cylinder base (70-9465) that orients the tappet block. The cylinder flange must be supported when driving the tappet block in or out. There is an o-ring seal (70-6560) around the tappet block that should be replaced also.
You should blue the tappet faces and check the cam does not run off the face. Very quick cam wear will follow.

#704877 - 08/13/17 3:40 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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Houston
When I tore my T150 down one cam follower was crossways from the factory and the result was these same grooves. Install a new follower correctly and it should be OK. The bike only ran 1662 miles to make those grooves and destroy the cam lobe.

Last edited by GaleGorman; 08/13/17 3:42 pm.

Gale Gorman
Houston
1974 Triumph Trident
1983 BMW R100S
#704909 - 08/13/17 8:41 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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Magnolia, TX
Thanks for the replies. . It looks like replacing the guide blocks on these is close to impossible. There is a dowel that holds them in place and the dowel is driven in flush with surface of the casting and then staked with a punch. I don't see anyway possible to remove the dowel as it can't be driven out and there is nothing to grab to pull it out.
One other question I have is on the tappet there is a flat with a hole in it on the stem. How should these be oriented. My cases are from a 69 but the rocker feeds have been capped at the main bearing caps.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
#704969 - 08/14/17 1:31 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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Houston
I think these get all the oil they need from the pushrod tubes and crankcase splash.


Gale Gorman
Houston
1974 Triumph Trident
1983 BMW R100S
#704977 - 08/14/17 3:07 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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L.A.B. Online content
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Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by htown
One other question I have is on the tappet there is a flat with a hole in it on the stem. How should these be oriented. My cases are from a 69 but the rocker feeds have been capped at the main bearing caps.



http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/Repair/Trident/69-73TridentRepair.pdf

Section A4 Fig.A5 (or Section B17 Fig.17) 'according to the book'.

#705026 - 08/14/17 9:35 pm Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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DMadigan Offline
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The dowel pins are removed by drilling a hole and tapping them then use a slide hammer. You should be able to get a #10-24 in there if you can find centre.
Remember the tappets are not square to the block so press them out and in square to the hole.

#705267 - Yesterday at 12:41 AM Re: 69/74 Engine rebuild [Re: htown]  
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htown Online content
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Magnolia, TX
I think Gale nailed it, the tappet had been incorrectly installed turned 90 degrees. When I turn it that way it fit the grooves perfectly.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
The cam lobe also had a v-shaped wear pattern. It was getting replaced anyway.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Here are the tappets installed after I had the bores reamed to .5 to 1.5 thou clearance. If you read my other thread you saw 3 of the tappets had oversized stems.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
My lovely better half assisting me dropping the cylinders on.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
Cylinders on, I used the middle piston in the cylinder method and then added the rod cap through the sump opening. Took 2 tries but last one went well. Everything rotates super smooth.
[Linked Image]Hosted on Fotki
All buttoned up and ready to drop back into the frame. Need my ex linebacker son in law to come up and give me a hand.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.

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