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B40 ign.switch prima C088SA ++ #703918
08/04/17 1:45 pm
08/04/17 1:45 pm
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 31
Worcestershire ..near kiddermi...
R
Richard B Offline OP
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Richard B  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 31
Worcestershire ..near kiddermi...
I have a B40 and want to know what the 3 positions on the ignition switch do.
The owners manual just says turn on ignition. I am quite sure current is being drawn from battery no matter what it is switched to.
The wiring has been tampered with as several wires have been cut or taped up. It is fitted with 2 Boyer boxes one red micro digital and a black one.

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Re: B40 ign.switch prima C088SA ++ [Re: Richard B] #703919
08/04/17 2:19 pm
08/04/17 2:19 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,375
Scotland
kommando Online content
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kommando  Online Content
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Scotland
Off, on and emergency start if wired as standard, if it has 2 boyers fitted then as Boyer do a powerbox too which rectifies and regulates the alternator output to 12V DC then the blackbox is probably one of these, you need to confirm this by looking at the label on the side. You are going to have to trace the wiring to the numbered terminals on both the ligthing and ignition switches, then compare it to one of the 12V conversion diagrams around as that is what it should be similar too, the one in the handbook is for 6V and regulates the alternator by attempting to cut the alternator charging coils in and out according to the lighting load so ignore that one. The Boyer blackbox should do all of that automatically so the wiring is revised to put all the charging coils in circuit all the time the bike is on.

This is an example but no warranties that it works and yours will be different anyway as you have 2 Boyer boxes so you need to compile your own version and then see where yours is wrong if there is no proper off. The emergency start position is redundant in 12V conversions as its on 6V when the battery is dead and you need full alternator output with no lights.

[Linked Image]


Last edited by kommando; 08/04/17 2:21 pm. Reason: Emergency start redundant
Re: B40 ign.switch prima C088SA ++ [Re: Richard B] #704009
08/05/17 2:00 am
08/05/17 2:00 am
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 31
Worcestershire ..near kiddermi...
R
Richard B Offline OP
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Richard B  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 31
Worcestershire ..near kiddermi...
On mine I get no spark in centre position. Both other positions seem to work the same. Yesterday I rode it for about 5 minutes on main lights and it started missfiring. Going onto pilots cured it. Ammeter was showing discharge of about 4 amps. Battery was fully charged before ride. The label on black box is unreadable. I have soldered 4mm bullet connecters to battery connection so I could swap battery to a 3 cell lipo if needed to get home. ( I also fly radio control models) Can't find a rectifier on it.
Many thanks for your advise

Re: B40 ign.switch prima C088SA ++ [Re: Richard B] #704018
08/05/17 6:33 am
08/05/17 6:33 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,375
Scotland
kommando Online content
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kommando  Online Content
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Posts: 9,375
Scotland
The black box is probably a Boyer powerbox so it is a combined rectifier and regulator in one box, so you will not find a separate rectifier hence the need for you to do your own wiring diagram.

Take your pick which one

http://www.boyerbransden.com/power_boxes.html

The original alternator is not the strongest output even when in a 12V conversion, add in probable weak magnets in the rotor and it will not support full lighting. You can upgrade to a more powerful rotor and stator but first diagnose your problem, it may be the alternator is wired in incorrectly and the full output is not being used.


Re: B40 ign.switch prima C088SA ++ [Re: Richard B] #704027
08/05/17 9:30 am
08/05/17 9:30 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,743
Sydney Australia
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BSA_WM20 Offline
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Sydney Australia
Originally Posted by Richard B
On mine I get no spark in centre position. Both other positions seem to work the same. Yesterday I rode it for about 5 minutes on main lights and it started missfiring. Going onto pilots cured it. Ammeter was showing discharge of about 4 amps. Battery was fully charged before ride. The label on black box is unreadable. I have soldered 4mm bullet connecters to battery connection so I could swap battery to a 3 cell lipo if needed to get home. ( I also fly radio control models) Can't find a rectifier on it.
Many thanks for your advise

That is correct
Clockwise should be the on psition
Counter clockwise is the emergency position which with std wiring feeds AC directly from the alternator to the ignition.
Because it is AC it only works properly for a very limited rev range.


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Re: B40 ign.switch prima C088SA ++ [Re: Richard B] #704125
08/06/17 3:05 pm
08/06/17 3:05 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,962
Scotland
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Stuart Offline
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Stuart  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Scotland
Hi Richard,

Hmmm ... several seemingly-relevant questions that haven't been asked ... confused

What year is your B40? Knowing whether it might originally have been 6V, and converted to 12V for the MicroDigital, or was originally 12V and has had some random switch fitted by a p.o.?

Is the "ignition switch" a proper one - marked "IGN" and has a spade-like 'key' that fits in a slot in the middle - not a Lighting switch (screw in the middle) that's been cobbled into place? And there's a separate Lighting 88SA switch?

Originally Posted by Richard B
It is fitted with 2 Boyer boxes one red micro digital and a black one.

Both are connected to the bike's electrics? The "black one" isn't also an ignition (if it's a Boyer-Bransden, would have a label showing "MicroMark" and a 3 or 4) and only one is actually connected?

If both boxes are connected, as posted by others, the "black one" is likely a B-B "Power Box" regulator/rectifier; any label or markings on it?

Originally Posted by kommando
Off, on and emergency start if wired as standard,

Originally Posted by Richard B
On mine I get no spark in centre position. Both other positions seem to work the same.

Then that's at least part of what's wrong; on 12V, "emergency start" should've been disconnected. Essentially, the wiring diagram "kommando" posted shows just that, by what isn't on it compared to the corresponding '6V' diagram ... smile

A 6V diagram would show the Green/Yellow alternator stator wire connected directly to Ignition Switch terminal 16 or 17 (i.e. not to the rectifier) and another Black/White wire from the coil "+" terminal to Ignition Switch terminal 15. A 6V diagram would also show a third contacts diagram under "IGNITION SWITCH", labelled "EMG." or similar.

Your bike clearly appears to have "EMG" wiring connections; if so, when you use the "EMG" setting, you're putting AC into the DC wiring; with proper electronics also connected to the DC wiring, they (the electronics) will be donald sooner rather than later. At least stop using the "EMG" setting 'til you can work out what dpo have/n't done. frown

Originally Posted by kommando
The original alternator is not the strongest output even when in a 12V conversion

The original alternator (RM19) produces less when regulated to 12V than when regulated to 6V - ~100W and ~120W respectively.

Hth.

Regards,


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