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Ever see this happen to a carb? #703164
07/28/17 8:27 pm
07/28/17 8:27 pm
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 164
Cleveland, OH
T
TheInvisibleCity Offline OP
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TheInvisibleCity  Offline OP
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T

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 164
Cleveland, OH
This is a new-ish (maybe 6 or 7 years old) AMAL carb. Put in the Berrymans dip that I've always used - including on this exact carb before - and this is how it came out after about 15 minutes. Float bowl too. What the heck has happened? This carb was bright and new looking (minus the stale gas inside) prior to the dip. I've not seen this reaction before.
[Linked Image]



'69 A65T
'66 A65T
Late 60's Lightning Bitsa
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Re: Ever see this happen to a carb? [Re: TheInvisibleCity] #703173
07/28/17 10:20 pm
07/28/17 10:20 pm
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Draper, Utah
F
Fullminator Offline
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Fullminator  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Draper, Utah
City, funny you should bring this up, as I had the same thing happen just a few days ago. I also was using Berryman dip on a AMAL Monobloc carb. The carb body and slide came out with a slimy grey coating, almost like the dip had started eating away the metal. It was only the magnesium alloy parts that were affected. All the brass or steel parts weren't affected at all. I have used this dip many times before on AMAL carbs and never had this happen. The grey slimy stuff wiped off easily and coated my hands; they as if I had been handling raw aluminum. I did leave the carb in the solution over the weekend; maybe that was the problem? Too long?
I cleaned up the carb, and got all of the grey residue removed, but I haven't tried the carb yet. I fear it may be ruined. Now too much clearance between the slide and the carb bore?
Fullminator

Re: Ever see this happen to a carb? [Re: TheInvisibleCity] #703175
07/28/17 10:27 pm
07/28/17 10:27 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,880
Elburn, Ill. USA
I
Irish Swede Offline
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Irish Swede  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,880
Elburn, Ill. USA
Does "Berrymans Dip" contain phosphoric acid? Long contact with certain carb cleaners can have strange effects on some metal alloys.

A friend left a kickstand spring in "Metal Prep" phosphoric solution too long and it ate away most of the spring!

Re: Ever see this happen to a carb? [Re: TheInvisibleCity] #703178
07/28/17 10:44 pm
07/28/17 10:44 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,268
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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Andy Higham  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,268
Bolton Lancs UK
Similar thing, I have often used "Mr Muscle" oven cleaner to clean engines, Villiers engines come out nice and pristine aluminium looking. It even removes baked on "R" oil.
I used it on my B31 cases, they turned a charcoal grey colour. It must be a reaction between an active ingredient and one of the metals alloyed with the aluminium. In the case of the carb above it's mainly zinc


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Re: Ever see this happen to a carb? [Re: Andy Higham] #703221
07/29/17 8:35 am
07/29/17 8:35 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,004
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,004
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Originally Posted by Andy Higham
Similar thing, I have often used "Mr Muscle" oven cleaner to clean engines, Villiers engines come out nice and pristine aluminium looking. It even removes baked on "R" oil.
I used it on my B31 cases, they turned a charcoal grey colour. It must be a reaction between an active ingredient and one of the metals alloyed with the aluminium. In the case of the carb above it's mainly zinc



I used mr muscle on the underside of a bantam head (test section) and rubbed it with a scotchbrite pad. It got it clean but it also ate at the aluminium too.


beerchug
Re: Ever see this happen to a carb? [Re: TheInvisibleCity] #703222
07/29/17 8:47 am
07/29/17 8:47 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,553
Scotland
kommando Offline
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kommando  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,553
Scotland
Using the float bowel as the test piece try using citric acid to see if it clears the deposit, then try sulphuric acid from an old battery. AMAL did not seem to have a tight control on the alloy mix and it varies a lot giving these odd reactions.

Re: Ever see this happen to a carb? [Re: TheInvisibleCity] #703355
07/30/17 5:45 pm
07/30/17 5:45 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,206
Lancaster, California
C.B.S Offline

Parts Dealer
C.B.S  Offline

Parts Dealer

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,206
Lancaster, California
Happened to me using Simple Green in an ultrasonic cleaner - it stripped the plating off

Re: Ever see this happen to a carb? [Re: TheInvisibleCity] #703430
07/31/17 10:03 am
07/31/17 10:03 am
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 728
angeles city, rp
J
jaycee Offline
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jaycee  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 728
angeles city, rp
if i may hazard a guess it looks like what caustic soda does. but that said, many years ago i was fooling around with a caswell anodizing kit and got the same reaction. i called caswell and he politely told me that the easiest way to tell the difference between ALUMINUM and ZINC ALLOY (AMAL carbs) was that sulphuric acid turns zinc black and whitens aluminum. does berrymans react with baking soda?

Re: Ever see this happen to a carb? [Re: jaycee] #703625
08/01/17 10:19 pm
08/01/17 10:19 pm
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Draper, Utah
F
Fullminator Offline
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Fullminator  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Draper, Utah
I looked at the Berryman dip can, it is mostly water at 40-55%, but it also contains heterocyclic amine derivatives at 15-20%, butoxyethoxy ethanol at 8-15%, butoxyethanol at 8-10%, and ethoxylated alkyl amines at 1-5%, whatever all that means. It has always cleaned carbs very well in the past. This is the first time it left me thinking I had seriously damaged something. My carb now looks like a zebra; stripes of grey and white, and a very flat, course surface appearance.
Fullminator.

Re: Ever see this happen to a carb? [Re: TheInvisibleCity] #703685
08/02/17 3:56 pm
08/02/17 3:56 pm
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 164
Cleveland, OH
T
TheInvisibleCity Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
TheInvisibleCity  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 164
Cleveland, OH
I guess the next obvious question would be - is this just cosmetic damage or has material actually been removed from my carb making it useless? Also strange that it didn't have this reaction in the past.


'69 A65T
'66 A65T
Late 60's Lightning Bitsa
Re: Ever see this happen to a carb? [Re: TheInvisibleCity] #703686
08/02/17 4:29 pm
08/02/17 4:29 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,553
Scotland
kommando Offline
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kommando  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,553
Scotland
Using exactly the same method I have cleaned about 10 AMAL Concentric carbs recently, ultrasonic with a mild detergent, it worked well on all but one which went very dark and nearly as bad as yours. As the others cleaned up well with a couple looking like they were shop fresh I can only guess at the metals alloy not being consistent or an operation at the end such as a flash plate in zinc has been missed. Size wise the one bad one I have is not affected so will look ugly but perform properly.


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