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Running in oil #702571
07/23/17 7:10 pm
07/23/17 7:10 pm
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 146
Kent UK
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Pdh1 Offline OP
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Kent UK
How long would you leave running in oil before changing on a fresh built engine ?


A65L 1966
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Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #702574
07/23/17 7:43 pm
07/23/17 7:43 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,375
Scotland
kommando Online content
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kommando  Online Content
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Posts: 9,375
Scotland
I change at 100, and 500 with running in oil and then at 1000 change to normal oil.

Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #702575
07/23/17 8:10 pm
07/23/17 8:10 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,537
Auckland NZ
Ignoramus Offline
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Ignoramus  Offline
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Posts: 1,537
Auckland NZ
as above, but what i do is just put a few pints of oil in the tank and dump it after first start up when its warm and check for sparklies in the oil ...........then fill it right up and do the 100 mile change ect

My rational being why waste a full tank of oil; on just a start up ...........maybee just around the block then drain

Last edited by Ignoramus; 07/23/17 8:19 pm.

"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #702581
07/23/17 9:16 pm
07/23/17 9:16 pm
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 146
Kent UK
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Pdh1 Offline OP
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Kent UK
And the filter at same time ? (External type)


A65L 1966
Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #702606
07/24/17 4:53 am
07/24/17 4:53 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,375
Scotland
kommando Online content
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kommando  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,375
Scotland
Filter change at 1000, I have a magnet in the sump plate (away from the oil inlet so it does not pull the ball down onto its seat) which collects the ring material before it gets to the filter and clean that every change.

Re: Running in oil [Re: kommando] #702618
07/24/17 9:39 am
07/24/17 9:39 am
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 12
QLD, Australia
B
Bill Steele Offline
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Bill Steele  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 12
QLD, Australia
G'day Kommando
I just posted about an issue with my Lightning, And I read your mention of the magnetic sump plate with a offset drain plug, I also fitted a finned sump plate with a magnetic drain-plug before my present issue, do you think it might have contributed to my oil issue, ie- the magnet pulling the ball down when the engine is running ?
ps- was in Scotland once to visit family in Crieff, loved the roads up there!!

Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #702623
07/24/17 10:34 am
07/24/17 10:34 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,375
Scotland
kommando Online content
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kommando  Online Content
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Posts: 9,375
Scotland
Hi Bill, I doubt you have a problem as your magnet is fixed, I do not use drain plugs but a full steel sump plate and a small but powerful rare earth magnet placed as far away from the return inlet as possible, it does not move but could, yours can't. However if you want to test you can hold the drain plug without the sump in its approx position and see if the ball is harder to move with a small rod or replace it with a bolt with the right thread but no magnet and use the sump to see if the oil then flows.

Yes as Gavin will testify the Highland roads are brilliant bike roads, sadly the same cannot be said where I am, spot the flat piece of road between the potholes is not an enjoyable pastime wink

Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #702837
07/26/17 12:35 pm
07/26/17 12:35 pm
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 312
Kent, England
J
John Alexander Offline
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John Alexander  Offline
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Posts: 312
Kent, England
When you buy a new car or bike, or have a rebuilt engine, why use running in oil, just drive the engine initially gently for the first few hundred miles. Goldie John.

Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #702862
07/26/17 3:59 pm
07/26/17 3:59 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,157
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline
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John Healy  Offline
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Posts: 10,157
Boston, Massachusetts
Quote
When you buy a new car or bike, or have a rebuilt engine, why use running in oil, just drive the engine initially gently for the first few hundred miles. Goldie John.


Comparing a modern vehicle with one designed before WWII and manufactured at least 50 years ago is like comparing a club with a sword.

Comparing service techniques used with grey cast iron rings with those used with modern "hard coated" ductile iron and steel rings, and the engines designed to use these perfectly round rings out of the box, is like comparing a drill press to a computer controlled CNC machining center.

As grey iron rings "break-in" they leave behind cast iron "swarf," removed from both the cylinder and rings, in the oil. Unless you have a specialty piston from a "performance" manufacture, you will be using grey cast iron rings. All of the popular rings available for these engines are grey cast iron: Hastings (except for a chrome top ring in the 650 set), Goetze, original AE Hepolite, Wassell Hepolite (AKA Hastings), Hastings, JCC Taiwan, Grant, etc.. You want to change the oil around 500 miles, less if you can afford it. All of the cast iron swarf produced during the break-in period collects in the oil. The 500 mile check, and oil change, was standard for most British motorcycle manufacturers. Most manufacturers paid the dealer to perform this service. Triumph marketed this as a "Free 500 Mile Check". They weren't doing this out of the "goodness of their heart."

Because on of the factors that degrade oil is condensation I believe in the more you use the engine the less you change it (miles) and the less you use it the more you change it (again miles). Condensation is a natural by product of changes in temperature. It can happen in storage where the bike is stored in a heated garage and the garage door is opened letting in cool air or from numerous start-ups and short runs. Using the engine for long runs turns the condensation into steam and exits through the breather or exhaust pipe. During short runs the engine never gets hot enough to "burn" off the condensation in the oil. Plain bearings don't work well when fed water laden oil.

If you look at any of the mineral 4T and V-Twin oils you will see that the oil companies have gone back to API SG rating. This is the last API standard that did not have "friction modifiers" meant to meet Federal Standards and rated as "energy Conserving." It is also the point where anti-wear additives were removed to protect catalytic converters. If you are using the current blend oils, marketed as 4t, motorcycle oil or V-Twin oil, it has all of the anti-wear additives originally specified for our engine manufactures.


Re: Running in oil [Re: John Alexander] #702871
07/26/17 4:56 pm
07/26/17 4:56 pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,403
melbourne florida
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bodine031 Offline
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melbourne florida
WTF WHAT????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #702872
07/26/17 4:59 pm
07/26/17 4:59 pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,403
melbourne florida
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bodine031 Offline
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melbourne florida
Pdh1 I would heed John H's reply

Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #703141
07/28/17 5:06 pm
07/28/17 5:06 pm
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 146
Kent UK
P
Pdh1 Offline OP
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Pdh1  Offline OP
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Kent UK
Heeded. . Not sure how anyone can compare modern rings with old cast. Club and sword. Nicely put. Also from SRM (U.K. Britbike Engineers) Use running in oil, don't pamper bike, but don't lug or over rev. I'm going this route, and will see how it works out. I think even modern BMW's use a similar method, and use mineral oil (albeit their own expensive) then change at 600 for modern.

Last edited by Pdh1; 07/28/17 5:11 pm.

A65L 1966
Re: Running in oil [Re: NickL] #703266
07/29/17 4:49 pm
07/29/17 4:49 pm
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 146
Kent UK
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Pdh1 Offline OP
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Kent UK
Originally Posted by NickL
I think what was implied by John from Kent was, ride it normally, don't thrash the living daylights out of it until it's done a few hundred miles.


If you already had the answer from SRM why ask the question here?


He did say NEW car or bike? I took that as modern metals and technology. The guys that recommended running in oil have been involved in britbikes for years, and did my rebore. However, the question was, when should I change it, not should I use it, so the reply was a little misplaced?

Why ask the question ? Simply, I hadn't spoken to SRM when I asked it. It was only later when inquiring about AMAL parts that I mentioned it as an aside. As they seem to be doing a huge amount of engineering work to britbikes, I posted their thoughts as a useful reference to others. Having said that, I do like to hear different views, not take one as gospel, which is why I've found this forum so useful.


A65L 1966
Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #703314
07/30/17 9:48 am
07/30/17 9:48 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,847
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
I use running in oil for a maximum of 500 miles.


beerchug
Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #703352
07/30/17 5:33 pm
07/30/17 5:33 pm
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 312
Kent, England
J
John Alexander Offline
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 312
Kent, England
Regarding running in oil, why does the subject have to be so technical, especially with oils in general. If you have a classic bike, buying products from Castrol i.e GP 50 or from Silkolene [ Osmatron 50] or even any Classic 20/50 oil, unless you've got a supercharged classic bike which revs into the zillions, you'll find that general motorcycle oils are fine for all conditions. Goldie John.

Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #703356
07/30/17 5:56 pm
07/30/17 5:56 pm
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 312
Kent, England
J
John Alexander Offline
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John Alexander  Offline
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Posts: 312
Kent, England
just an aside, when you bought a new bike, the manufacturer would stipulate a 500 mile service, which was free and this has always been the case from very early on. With the pre-delivery inspection, fresh oil was put in and replaced after 500 miles. I was a Motorcycle Fitter at Pride and Clarke , England, in the 1970's and with customer's rebuilt engines, only used normal oils. What's so different with classic bikes now. Goldie John.

Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #703357
07/30/17 5:58 pm
07/30/17 5:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,456
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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scotland
"Normal oil" is different now.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Running in oil [Re: NickL] #703366
07/30/17 7:18 pm
07/30/17 7:18 pm
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 146
Kent UK
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Pdh1 Offline OP
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Pdh1  Offline OP
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Kent UK
Originally Posted by NickL
Sorry for the 'misplaced' reply.
I am aware of SRM and have dealt with them for around 25 years, i know they do a good job.
Calm down........


It wasn't your reply I was referring to...

Thanks to those who did read the question and made a relevant reply.

Last edited by Pdh1; 07/30/17 8:37 pm.

A65L 1966
Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #703405
07/31/17 2:23 am
07/31/17 2:23 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,471
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Posts: 4,471
Owego, NY, USA
On my last A65 rebuild, I used Brad Penn 30W break-in oil, and dumped it after the first few heat cycles (no oil filter), then went to "regular" 20W50. One or two folks here (I think one of them was John Healy) recommended an oil that's high in ZDDP for initial break-in, which the Brad Penn stuff touts. First dump showed just a bit of sparkle in the oil; after that, nothing.

I'm not strong on theory, but I will say that it was a very successful break-in; nary a puff of oil, ever. Engine still running exceptionally well after two seasons on the road.

(Wish I had thought of that "don't waste a whole tank full of oil" tip - that Brad Penn stuff is $7 a quart, and I had to mail-order it (from Summit Racing, FWIW). I was told that some NAPA stores carry it, but not the one in my town.)


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Running in oil [Re: Pdh1] #703406
07/31/17 2:35 am
07/31/17 2:35 am
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,005
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline
fefsa
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fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,005
ohio, usa
the most recent engine i have built is my 650 LSR race bike's. it has perhaps 100 miles on it now, about half WFO.

it's on its third oil change, still running brad penn 30W break-in oil.

i'll tear it down after the next dyno sessions, and after that i'll switch to valvoline VR1 20W50, which is what i run in everything else. the valvoline costs $36.60 per case of 6, while the brad penn is around $100 per case of 12, from amazon.

doesn't matter to me what the oil costs, as my crankshaft and rods are way more important.


i have no idea what i'm doing.
Re: Running in oil [Re: kevin roberts] #703456
07/31/17 3:38 pm
07/31/17 3:38 pm
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,930
Ohio
R
Rickman Offline
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Ohio
SHEESH!
Wow, am I glad I live in a town that has many avenues toward racing!

Bought my 20W50 Brad Penn "green oil" a few years ago, it was @ $76 for a case of 12!

But you are correct Kevin; cranks and rods ARE way more costly!

Re: Running in oil [Re: John Alexander] #703493
07/31/17 9:05 pm
07/31/17 9:05 pm
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 146
Kent UK
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Pdh1 Offline OP
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Pdh1  Offline OP
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Kent UK
Originally Posted by John Alexander
Regarding running in oil, why does the subject have to be so technical, especially with oils in general. If you have a classic bike, buying products from Castrol i.e GP 50 or from Silkolene [ Osmatron 50] or even any Classic 20/50 oil, unless you've got a supercharged classic bike which revs into the zillions, you'll find that general motorcycle oils are fine for all conditions. Goldie John.


Please read my original question. I asked when to change it, not an opinion on why I should use it. Very un-technical


A65L 1966

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