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#696087 - 05/22/17 1:54 pm bad oil leaks, oif lightning  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 194
Suzygs1000 Offline
BritBike Forum member
Suzygs1000  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 194
Ingham, Queensland Australia
I finally got my 71 Lightning running beautifully, and have done about 200 klms on it. After a ride of about 10 klms, when I park in the garage, large amounts of oil (well, maybe a couple of tablespoons) are coming from the breather attached to the frame just behind the steering head. The bike had 3 litres of oil put in it. It seemed to be less severe after three or four rides, but when I started it yesterday, copius amounts of oil were leaking from the drain hole in the bottom of the inner timing cover. I didn't think their should have been any oil in there ... it is sealed from the gearbox by the gasket. By copious, again I mean a few tablespoons in a couple of minutes. I have already had the inner timing cover off three times. I suspect that the engine may be severely wet sumping, as I cannot see any oil in the frame if I take the cap off. Yet when I start it, it is blowing very little smoke. All the oil coming from the tank breather would indicate a pressure build up in the tank, but how could this be happening? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

thanks Dave. http://www.britbike.com/forums/images/icons/default/confused.gif

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#696094 - 05/22/17 2:22 pm Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: Suzygs1000]  
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,533
Allan Gill Offline
Allan Gill  Offline



Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,533
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
From what your describing I would say that the oil tank/frame isn't breathing as it should, possibly the breather pipe is trapped or blocked off or not open to atmosphere. You also have excess crank case oil pressure and I would suggest that if the oil that has dripped isn't gearbox oil (foul smell) then the oil is either coming past a screw on the inner timing case or coming past the seal being the ignition system. This should be noticable if you remove the inspection cover on the outer cover


beerchug
#696101 - 05/22/17 4:37 pm Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: Suzygs1000]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,394
gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,394
argyll. scotland, uk
3 litres of oil = 5.3 pints.too much oil. When the sump clears the spine will be overfull , thats why oil is coming from the tank breather / steering head.
The spine holds about 4 and a bit pints to the dipstick mark, , if you fill to the top ie just below the filler cap, thats too much, the dipstick top is about 2 " down. , with more lurking in the motor sump, nearly 5 pints in total. More like 4.5.
Check oil level in spine after a run, if you check after it has sat for hours/ days/ weeks , and top up you will have added too much., when the sump pumps back to the tank it will be overfilled.

Not sure what you mean by the drain hole in the inner timing cover. I dont think there is one, is it motor oil or gearbox oil thats leaking here?
Its normal for a little gearbox oil to wick along the selector shaft, nut not spoonfuls.

Check the gearbox oil level, there is a plastic dipstick, oil should not be over the mark.

To fix wet sumping, you need to take off the oil pump, follow the WSM, the top RHS port should have a ball and spring Non return valve.
Check the spring length against the WSM dimensions.
The NRV ball seats against the pump feed drilling,clean up the pump and examine the ball seat, it is probably rough as a badgers arse, to fix , get a spare ball, glue to the end of a 1/2" dowell, and lap the seat with the new tool and some grinding paste, Ideally strip the pump carefully keeping the gears meshed as found, rinse and rebuild with a tiny smear of Wellseal on the joint faces, follow the instructions on the tube to the letter. Replace the oil pump drive shaft O ring while you are in there.If you dont strip the pump after lapping, make sure it is flushed thoroughly with Kero or petrol to get any traces of grinding paste out.

Check the tank breather hose is not pinched or blocked, I rum mine to a small catch bottle behind the LHS side cover, held in with sticky velcro.
Even if the spine oil level is correct some oil will appear in this hose , when braking heavily it sloshes up the frame.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#696115 - 05/22/17 5:35 pm Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: Suzygs1000]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 680
gunner Online content
BritBike Forum member
gunner  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 680
Farnham, Surrey, UK
I once had exactly the same problem which was actually caused by oil is leaking past the alternator output wire. This is located near the breather outlet under the engine forward and above of the gearbox sprocket.

Check the rubber grommet located on the inner chaincase through which the alternator wire passes, you may find the rubber has deteriorated.

I fixed mine with a new grommet and used a small smear of silicone to ensure it completley sealed the wires.

Last edited by gunner; 05/22/17 5:38 pm.

1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
#696191 - 05/23/17 7:48 am Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: Suzygs1000]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 273
Peter Gascoigne Offline
BritBike Forum member
Peter Gascoigne  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 273
Southampton UK
Gavin, I thought Scotsmen drank whiskey, I didn't realise they kept rum in a small catch bottle behind the LHS side cover, held in with sticky velcro!!!


1971 BSA A65 Lightning "Bitsa"
1966 BSA A65 "Beezuki" with GT550 two-stroke engine
1974 Triumph T150 830cc
1975 Suzuki GT550
1975 Laverda 1000 3C
1986 Yamaha SRX 600
#696192 - 05/23/17 8:30 am Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: Peter Gascoigne]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,860
triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,860
scotland
Originally Posted by Peter Gascoigne
Gavin, I thought Scotsmen drank whiskey, I didn't realise they kept rum in a small catch bottle behind the LHS side cover, held in with sticky velcro!!!


They make some of the worst rum in the World.

Last edited by triton thrasher; 05/23/17 8:34 am.

Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#696945 - 05/31/17 12:54 pm Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: Suzygs1000]  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 194
Suzygs1000 Offline
BritBike Forum member
Suzygs1000  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 194
Ingham, Queensland Australia
Thanks for all the help, guys. It was all due to the oil tank being overfilled. I went for a 10 klm ride, and when I got back, I immediately lifted the seat and removed the oil tank cap. Oil went everywhere! It seemed to have filled most of the horizontal frame almost to the steering head. I syphoned about a litre out of the tank, and went for another ride. This time, the oil was about 30 mm's below the oil return pipe, and there were only very minor oil leaks, probably residual from the previous leaking. I guess the oil that came from the drain hole in the inner case had seeped through the crankshaft bearing, due to the crankcase filling up to above the main bearings.

I am not going to worry at this stage about the wet sumping. The motor seems to return the oil to the tank in a minute or so, and the cases having oil in them is not making the bike difficult to start.

Thanks for all the help. I will post a picture of the bike shortly. thanks again for all the help, DAve.

Last edited by Suzygs1000; 05/31/17 12:57 pm.
#697017 - 06/01/17 11:12 am Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: Suzygs1000]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,394
gavin eisler Online content
BritBike Forum member
gavin eisler  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,394
argyll. scotland, uk
Good job, watch the overflowed oil, if it gets on the battery mount rubbers it will eat them. Wash thoroughly with detergent.

Next most common source of oil leaks are the rocker cover centre 1/4" fasteners, they need a fibre washer and steel washer to seal against the rocker cover, this is easily forgotten ,.
Next most common is the primary chain adjuster, plumbers tape on the threads will help.
A 71 A65 is easy to make oil tight,I use Wellseal to stick the gasket to the removable part, ie rocker cover or primary case, then grease the face that mates to the lump, this way the gasket comes off clean with the part and may be reused.
However, the timed breather which exits above the gearbox sprocket will drip a little, particularly if the revs are kept around 5,000.or higher.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#697027 - 06/01/17 2:01 pm Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: Suzygs1000]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,507
DMadigan Online content
BritBike Forum member
DMadigan  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,507
ca, us
Rather than a fibre washer and steel washer you could use this:
https://images1.mcmaster.com/mvB/contents/gfx/small/94709a214p1-b01s.png?ver=1414504101
Neoprene washer bonded to stainless washer.

The primary adjuster should have a cap over the stud. Using one of these between the nut and case and cap and nut will seal them:
https://images1.mcmaster.com/mvB/contents/gfx/large/93781a029p1-b01l.png?ver=1414504094

#700530 - 07/03/17 1:16 am Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: Suzygs1000]  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 194
Suzygs1000 Offline
BritBike Forum member
Suzygs1000  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 194
Ingham, Queensland Australia
Thanks very much for all the helpful replies. All due to an overfull oil tank. Now running and riding beautifully. Pic attached. Have just started a 69 Bonnie, and intend using the same colors.

regards Dave, and again, I really appreciate all the help I received.

[Linked Image]

#700552 - 07/03/17 8:12 am Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: Suzygs1000]  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,546
BSA_WM20 Offline
BritBike Forum member
BSA_WM20  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,546
Sydney Australia
Nice & tasteful job you have done there


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#700579 - 07/03/17 1:25 pm Re: bad oil leaks, oif lightning [Re: BSA_WM20]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,050
Lannis Online content
Life member
Lannis  Online Content

Life member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,050
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Nice & tasteful job you have done there


I agree, nice looking bike. Not the colors I would have chosen, but that's a personal choice. I'll bet you wouldn't choose the colors I'd pick in the same situation!

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.

Moderated by  Allan Gill 


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