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#701589 - 07/12/17 11:56 pm Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: Msh5337]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,754
shel Online content
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shel  Online Content
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Posts: 3,754
ohio
A stuck engine isn't always rusty rings. I soaked and tapped and worked on my T150 for a couple months, nothing worked but I wasn't gonna force it. I started taking it apart as much as I could and found this.

[Linked Image]

The center rod had spun, locked, bent the rod and broke the cylinder skirt. I could have beat on that until I ruined the motor but I didn't. It wasn't a cheap rebuild but it runs strong.


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
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#701593 - 07/13/17 12:28 am Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: Msh5337]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,672
Jon W. Whitley Online content
Jon W. Whitley  Online Content



Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,672
Vermont
Originally Posted by Msh5337
Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, has worked on this thing. I've tried the fire alter numerous times now have had it soaking in kroil for a couple of weeks. I've pounded, smashed, and pressed the living daylights out of the pistons, but they wont even budge. I know this takes time and patience, but I've about lost all of it.



Okay, have you tried putting a correct size six point socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft end nut and tried to break it free yet ? Note - you must remove the primary cover.


My first ever British motorcycle was a froze up 1968 A65L and we poured kerosene into both cylinders through the plug holes and a week or two later I was able to break it free with the kick starter. Now, I know your engine is out of the frame.

Back in 2015 I bought a '74 Honda CB750 that was locked up/froze up. I did the acetone/ATF mix too. After a few months and it not breaking free with the kicker, I put the breaker bar on the crankshaft end nut and got it to break free. After spraying copious amounts of Sea Foam into the cylinders and adding new oil, filter and plugs, it runs like a champ.

Don't give up. But, I would forget about cutting cylinders off with some giant saw blade or what have you. Put some old fashioned force on it. It will break free.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

#701598 - 07/13/17 1:31 am Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: Msh5337]  
Joined: Jun 2017
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Msh5337 Offline
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Msh5337  Offline
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Weatherford, TX
Yeah, everything is taken off the motor except the cylinder. When I turn the crank the cylinder raises off the cases about an inch. Thats why I'm assuming it's stuck pistons. I was planning on splitting the cases like it is but the cylinder doesnt quite clear the studs, and I can't get a good grip on the inner nut that's holding the cases together

#701600 - 07/13/17 1:53 am Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: Msh5337]  
Joined: May 2005
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shel Online content
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shel  Online Content
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ohio
well you're not gonna save the pistons anyway. drill holes around the outside edge of the piston and work on them with a chisel, work them to the inside of the bore, collapse them to the inside. maybe a next overbore might clean them up


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
#701610 - 07/13/17 6:31 am Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: Msh5337]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 680
gunner Online content
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gunner  Online Content
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Farnham, Surrey, UK
Might be worth trying one of the freezing penetrant sprays like This One

The idea is the spray freezes the metal which contracts, then penetration oil can get in and free things up.

I have never tried this but got to be worth a shot


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
#701617 - 07/13/17 9:55 am Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: Msh5337]  
Joined: May 2004
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BSA_WM20 Online content
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BSA_WM20  Online Content
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Sydney Australia
Well despite the fact you decided to overlooks the grease method, I will give you a couple more.
If you have access to a demolition hammer or air chisel, support the barrels with the engine unsupported, hanging by the barrels to put some preload on the pistons .
Put something on top of the pistons to spread the load.
Using a flat ended tool ( plenishing hammer for the air chisel ) apply all of your weight on the tool & turn it on.
Go from one side to the other in short spells
I fix mowers and use this method to remove alloy wheels that have rusted solid onto steel axels.
20,000 tiny sharp blows a minute works a lot better than 20 tons applied slowly via a press . I have access to a 20 T press and all it ever did on these was bend all of the press tools.

Again it will not be quick, I can spend anything up to 2 hours to remove a wheel.


Considering what you have been doing I will assume reusing the rods are a no no
In this case you can cut through the rods using that 1" gap between the cases & the barrels. going to be hard work, but use a fine blade or better still a diamond dust tile cutting blade in a hack saw.

Last method is to hang it up side down from the cases and fill the pistons with Hydrachloric acid ( get it from a pool shop & come chloring to neutralise it when finished ).
Use a wash bottle to fill the pistons with the acid and have a big plastic bowl under neath to catch the acid.
HCl will not hurt COLD cast iron & the barrels will most likely be rusted so deep they will need to be sleeved in any case.
The head face only needs to be an inch or so above the bottom of the bowl cause once it moves 1" it will pull right off.
You will either eat through the piston or the rod.

This will take most of the day and no naked flames , cigirettes etc because you will be generatig a lot of H gas which of course likes to go Bang.

Last edited by BSA_WM20; 07/13/17 9:59 am.

Bike Beesa
Trevor
#701754 - 07/14/17 8:21 pm Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: gunner]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 28
M21 Offline
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M21  Offline
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Mass
Originally Posted by gunner
Might be worth trying one of the freezing penetrant sprays like This One

The idea is the spray freezes the metal which contracts, then penetration oil can get in and free things up.

I have never tried this but got to be worth a shot

Originally Posted by gunner
Might be worth trying one of the freezing penetrant sprays like This One

The idea is the spray freezes the metal which contracts, then penetration oil can get in and free things up.

I have never tried this but got to be worth a shot

Originally Posted by gunner
Might be worth trying one of the freezing penetrant sprays like This One

The idea is the spray freezes the metal which contracts, then penetration oil can get in and free things up.

I have never tried this but got to be worth a shot

#701755 - 07/14/17 8:22 pm Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: M21]  
Joined: Jan 2008
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M21 Offline
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M21  Offline
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Posts: 28
Mass
Originally Posted by M21
Originally Posted by gunner
Might be worth trying one of the freezing penetrant sprays like This One

The idea is the spray freezes the metal which contracts, then penetration oil can get in and free things up.

I have never tried this but got to be worth a shot

Originally Posted by gunner
Might be worth trying one of the freezing penetrant sprays like This One

The idea is the spray freezes the metal which contracts, then penetration oil can get in and free things up.

I have never tried this but got to be worth a shot

Originally Posted by gunner
Might be worth trying one of the freezing penetrant sprays like This One

The idea is the spray freezes the metal which contracts, then penetration oil can get in and free things up.

I have never tried this but got to be worth a shot


#701756 - 07/14/17 8:22 pm Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: M21]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 28
M21 Offline
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M21  Offline
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Posts: 28
Mass
Originally Posted by M21
Originally Posted by M21
Originally Posted by gunner
Might be worth trying one of the freezing penetrant sprays like This One

The idea is the spray freezes the metal which contracts, then penetration oil can get in and free things up.

I have never tried this but got to be worth a shot

Originally Posted by gunner
Might be worth trying one of the freezing penetrant sprays like This One

The idea is the spray freezes the metal which contracts, then penetration oil can get in and free things up.

I have never tried this but got to be worth a shot

Originally Posted by gunner
Might be worth trying one of the freezing penetrant sprays like This One

The idea is the spray freezes the metal which contracts, then penetration oil can get in and free things up.

I have never tried this but got to be worth a shot



#701760 - 07/14/17 8:49 pm Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: M21]  
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 932
Andy Higham Online content
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Andy Higham  Online Content
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Posts: 932
Bolton Lancs UK
I would drill a 1/4" hole absolutely centrally in each piston then select a hole saw slightly smaller than the bore diameter. Go steady, the ring lands will break away and you can dig the rings out


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#701803 - 07/15/17 6:14 am Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: Msh5337]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 111
Mitch Offline
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Mitch  Offline
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Posts: 111
Anchorage Alaska USA
the grease gun thing works. I freed up a frozen Allison V12 with a grease gun

#701816 - 07/15/17 11:31 am Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,081
Lannis Online content
Life member
Lannis  Online Content

Life member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,081
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by Msh5337
Everything I've read is that the ATF/acetone mix is by far the best penetrator to use. Does everyone here agree with that?
See below.
Originally Posted by Geoff
Kroil.
+1

There's a 'gee-whiz' aspect of being able to mix your own penetrating fluid that beats anything commercially available that seems to attract people to ATF/acetone in the same way advertisers discovered that the words "A weird trick to..." works as click bait. One has to wonder if ATF/acetone is better than anything else, why hasn't it been packaged commercially, in which case it would beat all the other commercial products on the market?



Your analysis is a good one, but there's one aspect of "If It's So Good, Why Isn't It Being Marketed?" you haven't considered.

It may be the same thing that keeps anyone from selling tomatoes as good as the ones that I can grow in my garden. I'm not a tomato expert compared with someone that does tomato research for a big company for a living, BUT he has limitations that I don't have.

The person selling tomatoes on the market (or selling fresh bread) has to be able to package it, and ship it, and make it last long enough to get to the customer, and it has to be easily usable.

I don't have to worry about that. I can grow a tomato that would not survive shipping, that won't last more than a day or two off the vine, and has a spot or two on it that I can cut off. But in return, it has a MUCH better flavor and consistency than any store-bought tomato.

Perhaps it's similar for ATF/Acetone. It won't stay mixed for long, the acetone separates out, and you'd probably have to re-mix it once you opened the can, and in a week it wouldn't be any good. No problem for me in my shop, but a BIG problem for a guy trying to market "Acet-Free" or whatever it would be called. I've tried it, and it works ... so since I've always got ATF and acetone around in big cans for other purposes anyway, I save my $8.95 or whatever I'd pay for "PB Blaster" or "Liquid Wrech" or "Kroil" and just "roll my own" ....

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#701908 - 07/16/17 8:29 am Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: Lannis]  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,548
BSA_WM20 Online content
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BSA_WM20  Online Content
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Posts: 3,548
Sydney Australia
I have tried all sorts of things and the acetone ATF mixture is a bit better than WD 40 which is not primarily a penetrant it is a dewatering fluid which can penetrate loose dry corrosion.
Penetrene works , we don't get Kroll or PB down here.
Rusted on things respons very well to a rust disolving solution that does not have phosphoric acid in it.
You can easily tell thm because they will have a warning about the parts rusting again .

Warmng up the item , then cooling with penetrant works very well.

There is little in ATF to make it a good penetrant chemically.

AS previously mentioned we all love a conspracy and we all love a bargain
It is much like acetone in petrol.
A small amount will replace the aromatic fraction that is there to allow for easy starting at low temperatures on a cold engine , which it does, for a short while before it too evaporates.
Not all that long ago it was everywhere as remedy for pinking, octane boosting and MPG extender , none of which it will do, but is sounds good on Feaces Book or EWE -Tube ( if you are a sheep ).


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#706136 - 08/25/17 4:55 am Re: Bought a locked up BSA A65 [Re: BSA_WM20]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 8
Msh5337 Offline
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Msh5337  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 8
Weatherford, TX
Good news guys. She's free!!! I've been letting her sit in Kroil since my last post. Took a 4lb hammer to the pistons today and they eventually worked themselves out. Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions. I'm really glad I didn't go the more drastic route and cut the barrel off. Now it's time to rebuild! I even found a parts bike, same year model and freed up motor, for 200 bucks. Things are looking up!

Last edited by Msh5337; 08/25/17 4:56 am.
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