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#694180 - 05/06/17 8:08 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Allan Gill]  
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kevin roberts Online content
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ohio, usa
good question, allan. i could probably make a set of TT tubes clear the mag, as even a stock set of pipes works if i don't push them all the way onto the stubs. but all the TT pipes i can buy are 1.75-inches in diameter.

the man i wanted to do the head for me originally specified 1-5/8-inch pipes. 1.50 was too small, 1.75 was too big. that's why i ended up ordering a set of do-it-yourself 1-5/8-inch pipes in the first place. no big deal, though, as i need to learn how to weld pipes decently anyway.

no balance tube between the pipes, currently. i'm way not good enough to weld a T-section. i do understand what you're saying about linking the pipes into a large X-shape, but for the first iteration of this exhaust i want to keep it simple and separate the two sides.

turns out that the 1.65-inch ID mild steel pipes are a slip fit over the 1-5/8-inch OD tubes i'l use for the whole system. so i won't have to build extensions for the dyno, i can just build a single tube and slide it up and down like a trombone to tune the length.


Last edited by kevin roberts; 05/06/17 8:09 pm.

Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#694186 - 05/06/17 9:13 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
My bike's first dyno runs after the head work was with a home made two into designed from the usually accurate Pipe Max computer design program...1-1/2 inch pipes 29 inches long, 2-1/2 x 17 inch collector.....A bit more midrange and a bit less on top end compared to 1-1/2 x 38 straight pipes..I didn't spend much time on it so there might have been more there.....Be interesting to see how your machine runs with the pipes...

[Linked Image]


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#694187 - 05/06/17 9:17 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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John Healy Online content
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Kevin, to align pipes for welding take two 36"ish lengths (if you are at a bend you can shorten the wires) of welding wire and bend them into a "U" in the middle. Make the "U" so it will just slip into the pipe. Put one of the welding rods into the pipe 6-8" one way and the other in the other way and slide the pipes together. You will be able to align the pipes perfectly for the weld. To remove take another length of welding wire and bend the end into a hook. You will think you are an expert!


#694193 - 05/06/17 10:23 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Blown Income Online content
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Edgewater, Md
Good tip John!

I have also used standard hose clamps with 3 areas of the grooves removed to TIG weld the joint. You can also used some small channels and a pair jaw clamps to hold the alignment.


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
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#694204 - 05/07/17 12:25 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Blown Income]  
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Originally Posted by John Healy
Kevin, to align pipes for welding take two 36"ish lengths (if you are at a bend you can shorten the wires) of welding wire and bend them into a "U" in the middle.


Originally Posted by Blown Income
You can also used some small channels and a pair jaw clamps to hold the alignment.


shoot, both of these are good ideas.

i have been trying to figure out the best way to do that.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#696949 - 05/31/17 2:31 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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ohio, usa
stuff going on

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

engine goes back in this afternoon, now that i have an oil tank and a vestigial fender to keep the grit out of the carb mouths. then tanks and pipes.

i thought i had a 21-tooth sprocket for this motor, but the only one i have is for a five speed. need that, as 21/46 adds 4 mph to the 19/43 at 7000 and gives me a nominal 130.4. i don't expect to go near that fast, but i need to keep the option open. one's coming from lowbrow, but i'll have to grind the trapdoor hole with the motor on the bike later.

i can't believe i spent 40 years working on motorcycles without a bike lift. this thing is a lifesaver.

[Linked Image]


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#698505 - 06/15/17 12:07 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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ohio, usa
fit the tanks with chunks of wood and ten feet of duct tape:

[Linked Image]

but they went on okay and everything clears:

[Linked Image]

got to move the petcocks, though. when they're in the back, the one on the right bumps the plug wire boot. but i had each tank done with an extra bung smack in the middle, so i can just put them both a bit forward and then everything clears.

[Linked Image]

putting the tanks below the frame tube lets me drop my head below the top triple clamp, down to the left.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

before, i had to ride with my chin sitting on the top of that honking great tank, which was great for symmetry but lousy for wind resistance. i have to lower the tach now, because the only way i can see it is to look through the fork legs, between the triple clamps.

pipes this weekend.




Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#698541 - 06/15/17 10:39 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
Time is getting short, get cracking on that bike grin There's rules about tach and or speedo location....


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#698620 - 06/15/17 11:36 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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there is nothing left to do but build the pipes and put the primary back in. and clean the carbs, which is not hard.

then it's a runner. should start it this coming week.

the tach can be relocated in ten minutes, because i've had it both ways and all i have to do is swap brackets that i already have made. but at least at ECTA, the inspectors were pretty tolerant about that stuff. i've seen several bikes that were technically illegal in unimportant ways. i wouldn't contest a record over the tach mount, personally.

the bigger issue was the tanks. i had somebody else weld the tanks, and i specified dimensions that would put the two tanks at 2.88 litres each, comfortably over the 5-litre minimum rule, but when i got them they were undersize. i ended up buying a set of graduated cylinders and a burette so i could be sure, and they measure out at . . . 2.610 liters, each. 220cc over the minimum, and legal.

after i learn how to weld aluminum, that won't happen again.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#698624 - 06/16/17 12:18 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
Loring isn't to fussy about gauges either. In fact I got the impression so long as the machine looks safe it's good enough... I calculated the tank volume by math..and never measured the actual volume...My rider made them from steel tubing and domed end caps were inexpensive eBay items..But he warped the threaded filler necks from excessive welding heat.....Then he had to buy a 50 buck tap to fix it..
When you stop at my place we'll start that bad boy and drill up and down the road a few times..


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#698671 - 06/16/17 9:32 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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ohio, usa
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike

When you stop at my place we'll start that bad boy and drill up and down the road a few times..


ooooh

how straight is your road?


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#698673 - 06/16/17 10:01 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Hillbilly bike  Online Content
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by kevin roberts
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike

When you stop at my place we'll start that bad boy and drill up and down the road a few times..


ooooh

how straight is your road?


It's straight for about three miles.....Of course there's sections with hills, with houses, good possibility of eight wheel JD tractors with 20 foot wide implements....But I can't remember seeing the police... grin......


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#698692 - 06/16/17 2:24 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike]  
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no big tractors here, but a fair number of amish. so youll crest a blind hill and tbere will be a hay wagon in your lane. about 8 feet wide and 15 feet high, driven by a nine-year-old. . .

got to be careful


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#698849 - 06/17/17 11:37 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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ohio, usa
lol

i had great hopes that my pipes would be great-looking: straight straight parts, sexy curved parts, flowing welds . . .

stark reality intrudes, however. half-way done, taking a break. the cone-engineering pre-bent do-it-yourself tubes are really nice, although they only have a 2.5-inch radius in the 1-5/8-inch tube. but that can be worked with.

[Linked Image]

they sell a cutting guide that lets you make the exact bends you want, so long as you know what angle you need. i needed more clearance than stock pipes provide for the ARD magneto. stock pipes bump the casting, so i extended the tube from the exhaust stubs about 3/4-inch extra, and then bent it down at the same angle as stock. my ARD is modified so that the magneto rotates about 10 degrees for timing, and stock pipes get in the way unless you scoot them way out on the stubs before clamping them down.

[Linked Image]

i used a couple of cheap yardsticks bolted together as a giant pair of dividers to find what i needed, then measured the yardsticks with a protractor, and cut the tubes.

[Linked Image]

to join the straight bits, i took some advice from people here and clamped the pipes in a piece of angle iron. then i could spot weld the tubes in a straight line.

[Linked Image]

the result is straight, with elegant lines, and goes exactly where i want it . . . and shows off my absolutely shitty welding. i'm way primitive on that.

[Linked Image]

but it fits, and the pipe is clean of welds where i want to slip on the 1.75-inch extensions at the dyno. i also arranged the tail section so that a reverse cone megaphone will fit between the tire and the shifter lever, for the next tuning iteration over th ewinter.

[Linked Image]

i'll just try to make sure that the right side isn't the one people can see. hopefully the left side will look better. i wanted more time to practice welding tubing, but kevin don't got no more time.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#698858 - 06/18/17 12:36 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
They have these things called angle grinders and flap discs...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#698868 - 06/18/17 2:15 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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kevin roberts Online content
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ohio, usa
i tried to make it a little bit prettier on the bench grinder, then i remembered a bottle of wild turkey in the house and left it until tomorrow.

but to be honest, i guess i don't much care about conventional pretty. my number one son looked at my exquisitely-planned fuel tanks, and said, wow, those are really ugly . . .

wait until you see my new seat, though! stay tuned.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#698882 - 06/18/17 7:33 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,533
Allan Gill Offline
Allan Gill  Offline



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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
I wouldn't grind those welds back Kevin, the weld doesn't look to have had enough time to penetrate the tube, and done as a ring as opposed to the fallen pennies aproach, not grinding it back will maintain some strength. Otherwise looking good


beerchug
#698901 - 06/18/17 12:18 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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maybe so, allan. in my way-limited welding experience long ago, i got to where i could maintain a good puddle with a gas welder, but this wire feed thing is different. and these pipes are so thin that they burn through if i'm not careful, and so i've been erring on the side of lots ofmetal.

i went down to the local muffler shop and traded a bag of chocolate barsfor a bucket of tubing scraps, and ive been practicing with that. still a long way to go on it.

hopefully the othe side will look better.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#698964 - 06/18/17 11:15 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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kevin roberts Online content
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ohio, usa
here's that angle-measuring thing from cone engineering:

[Linked Image]

you can't see it, but there are faint lines etched into the metal that make it into a big protractor. you put the standard U-bend into the device, snap out the little pointer thing and set it up over the tube, and then use the edge of the pointer as a rule to mark out the exact angle you need. there's only one radius for each diameter of tube. for the 1-5/8-inch tube here, the radius is 2.5 inches. that's lots less than the stock triumph pipes, which have radii more like 3 and 4 inches. i can use these to mark perfect angles, but then i get messed up because i can't cut perfectly across the tubes with a hacksaw, and i end up with gaps that make the welder burn holes into the edges. i bought one of these as an experiment in tube cutting, but it's way slow on steel pipes and hard to use inside a bend:

[Linked Image]

^^^not so successful, although the cuts are perfect when you finally get them made. i suppose the solution is either a bandsaw or lots more practice with the hacksaw.

anyway, pipes are done:

[Linked Image]

welds suck, but the next ones will be better. these work out to be 51 inches long. i'll cut them back to about 34 or so, and then make extensions out of the 1-3/4 inch tubing i have. it slips right on over the 1-5/8 stuff, and i have enough to make telescoping extensions to 46 inches, just using one tube that slides up and down the tail pipe.

[Linked Image]


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#698966 - 06/18/17 11:32 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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kevin roberts Online content
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ohio, usa
damn

i just priced bandsaws from harbor freight, and a light-duty one isn't as expensive as i thought.

maybe i should consider making pipes for the trident, since nobody does a three-into-one anymore for them.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#698995 - 06/19/17 6:40 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,533
Allan Gill Offline
Allan Gill  Offline



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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
We used to use a big chop saw, big circular disk, that made lightnwork and nice edges, when I made mine I used an angle grinder, used tape as a marker then drew a line next to the tape. Remove the tape and that was my cutting line.

A 1mm (.040") gap is sufficient between the joint to weld between, ideally the thickness of the wire, most wires are 0.8mm, and if you get a bigger gap, instead of welding across it, weld into the corner of the previous weld and one of the pipe ends, then do the same on the other side, and keep working inwards. If the gap is too big, I used to start from the other side and work back towards it, then the larger hole fills up better.

I used 1.5mm thick pipe when I made my exhaust, if yours is thinner then I can see how it is so hard to not burn through.


beerchug
#699006 - 06/19/17 9:06 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Mark Parker Offline
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Bega NSW Australia
When I make engine/header pipes that go under the motor I get pipes bent and use only two sections for each, joined between the bends. I get the local exhaust guy to bend sections from stainless pipe to a curve I can make from wire. The curve is more gradual than what you have at the top bend. It's not possible to get a full sweeping pipe from his bender, but I can adjust that weld joint between the bends by angle cutting slightly and aiming the pipe exactly where I want it to go. Which may work better making a 3into1.

If your Trident is a T150 using the stock frame, the headers will fit best with the center pipe going to the left of the frame tube. With all headers aimed a bit to the left and angling back to the right under the motor. I used 1-1/2" tube into a triangular arranged collector with a fairly big tail pipe and muffler.


mark
#699008 - 06/19/17 10:30 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
You don't need a band saw....I have this exact pipe cutter and it cuts quick and clean on 16-18 gauge pipe...It leaves a slightly rolled in edge that's easiley reamed with a files or burr in cordless drill...
.
[Linked Image]
Your radius are tighter than what's usually seen on a Brit bike but not tighter than seen on some engines make far more power per cubic inch...Only a back to back test would confirm any difference..
I join the pipes before the bend and try to not make another joint closer than 12 inches after the bend...

I made the pipes on the Triumph ,what you call the "the fastest 650 unit production based Triumph in the country" grin You can see heat staining where the pipes join..Nothing fancy....Bottom radius looks about the same as yours..

[Linked Image]

The pipes I made for the double sweep back because they are on the sides of the frame..

[Linked Image]

Grind the weld bead on your pipes,if it looks weak re weld...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#699059 - 06/19/17 8:14 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike]  
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Andy Higham Online content
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Bolton Lancs UK
I guess you have used MIG to weld the pipes. Only stick is less appropriate, gas or TIG will give much better results and if you use TIG and use backing gas, the inside will be pretty too


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#699078 - 06/19/17 11:08 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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kevin roberts Online content
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ohio, usa
all good suggestions. i'm using this little wire welder with CO2/argon gas:

[Linked Image]

i do have an ancient lincoln stick welder, but at the moment the pipes made with the wire unit seem to be okay. the welds are blobby, but the penetration is good on the ones i've dissected. mostly the issue seems to be aesthetic. i'll experiment with other stuff after this july meet. i've already learned enough about the pipes that there are some things i want to do differently.

i'm stuck with tight 2.5-inch radius bends, because cone engineering doesn't do multiple radii in a given pipe size. the actual angles of the tubes are the same as stock: upper bend is 75 degrees, lower bend is 98. but the transitions are sharper because of the small radius. on the stock pipes, the upper radius is about 3 inches, and the lower one is about 4. (i know because i trial-fit various cans and so forth until i found things that fit).

i'm using the 1-5/8-inch pipe diameter reccommended by leo goff, and that causes some difficulties, because i can't just modify pipes i can buy. the standard triumph stuff is always either 1.5 or 1.75. i may end up ditching the intermediates simply because i can't get a sweeping bend with tubes in that diameter. what i've seen from american muffler shops is that they make bends by crushing the pipe on the inside curve, and i'm looking for mandrel-bent tubing.

Last edited by kevin roberts; 06/19/17 11:09 pm.

Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
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Moderated by  Allan Gill 


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