BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
  JWood Auction  
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Photo posting tutorial

Member Spotlight
Soup Dragon
Soup Dragon
South Cotswolds, England
Posts: 21
Joined: October 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
204 registered members (57nortonmodel77), 1,763 guests, and 539 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Brian Ellery, Jon Andrews, Berni Ernst, johnguppy, michael morgan
9955 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
btour 186
koan58 99
Stuart 88
NickL 63
Popular Topics(Views)
436,437 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums33
Topics65,263
Posts632,026
Members9,955
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 2 of 15 1 2 3 4 14 15
#692912 - 04/24/17 4:39 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
I was going to recommend John Deere Corn Head grease...
Maybe because of all the stories this past week on '420 day', when I read your post I wondered why people smoke corn husks, and why they need grease. But, thanks to the web I've now learned there is a farm implement called a 'corn head'. Not having seen a corn head in operation I visualize it slowly munching its way through a corn field so, as you said, the gears may be moving slower than those in an Ariel at 50 mph. But, I have Morris's recommended sem-liquid grease coming to me in a month so this particular problem is under control.

Speaking of things coming to me, the Ariel is in the air right now, due to land at LAX in six hours. Given what I the shipper told me are expected times to clear Customs and then be carried by truck to me the soonest I might have it is Friday, although early next week is more likely.

Trying to clear the deck to be ready for it I decided this weekend to rebuild my BB Gold Star's Magdyno. The bike runs great and a few months ago it successfully didn't strand a visiting Australian on a ~100-mile trip so there was a chance the previous owner had installed proper replacement capacitors. However, making my decision easier to fix something that didn't seem broken was that I found the inside of the Catalina's magneto, from the same guy, was a mess.

Anyway, when I opened the Magdyno I found the original Lucas condenser inside it . Its room temperature resistance was 7.6 megohm at 250 V so it still would (barely) exceed the Mil-Spec requirement at operating temperature (yes, there is a Mil-Spec for magneto condensers). But, the fact Lucas condensers started life at over 100 megohms shows it's well into its death spiral and that the Magdyno definitely was living on borrowed time.

The earth and HT brushes were fine so I treated it to new capacitors and grease, magnetized it, and ran it for 30 minutes at 2000 rpm. I had to quit before I tested how low in rpm it would go but will do that before I reinstall it.

While the bike is on the stand, and before the Ariel shows up, I'm going to completely wire it using LED bulbs and a NiMH battery pack. I bought a Podtronics regulator from John Healy a year ago that I originally had intended to use when I wired this bike, but since then I've been happy not to have any more lead acid batteries in my life. The 8-hour lighting provided by the NiMH packs I've been using is good enough for me and this is what I intend to use on the Ariel as well rather than swap its magneto for a Magdyno.

Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!
Membership Type! Free
Member
Premium
Member
Premium Life
Member
Vendor
Member
Site
Sponsor
Recognition No Premium Member Premium Life member (5 years) Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
Post commercial threads No No No Yes Yes
Custom title No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Upload avatar & photos No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Link avatar & photos Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Private Message Storage: 10 100 100 100 100
Length of signatures 255 600 600 600 600
Removes this very advert island between post 1&2 No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Price Free $12.90/year $105.00 No End
$55.00/5 years
$210.00/year
($17.50/month)
Email
Click on button >>
  Premium Member Premium Life member Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
#692968 - 04/25/17 10:23 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,262
kevin roberts Online content
BritBike Forum member
kevin roberts  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,262
ohio, usa
combine with a corn head

[Linked Image]

with a grain head

[Linked Image]

the difference is in the width of the fingers separating the stalks. corn for large grain production is generally planted in fairly wide rows, and these fingers separate the stalks so the combine can thresh the ears and toss out the chopped straw. if the corn is to be cut green for silage, it's planted really close together and then is just chopped up and shot into a truck or a trailer alongside the tractor-- no combine.

small grain, like wheat, rye, or barley is just reeled into the sickle bar and threshed in-masse. no fingers on the small grain header.

my folks in oklahoma didn't use a combine. they would bring a stationary threshing machine out into the field and turn it with a belt drive off the side of the tractor, or pay somebody else to bring in a huge wheeled unit. later on one of the neighbors bought one, and they would hire him to do the work.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#693039 - 04/26/17 11:24 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: kevin roberts]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,098
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,098
Running from demons in WNY
The Corn head grease video.....

How it works


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#693076 - 04/26/17 4:19 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Hillbilly bike]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
Originally Posted by kevin roberts
combine with a corn head...
Although I'm a city boy by inclination, spending time sitting in combines, tractors, balers, etc. in the farm implement display at the Iowa State Fair as a young boy made me want to be a farmer. Luckily, fate took me on a different path because farming is way too much work and economically way too uncertain.

Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
The Corn head grease video.....
Thanks for posting that link. Who would have thought a video of grease flowing could be so fascinating? In light of this, maybe watching paint dry wouldn't be as bad as we've been lead to believe.

Ariel update: Anyone wanting to import a bike needs a printer and scanner for legal-size paper and software to create pdfs. They also need to make sure the local shipping agent (not just the overseas shipper) has the contact information as well as not to stray too far during the process to avoid delays and costly storage fees.

A few hours before the bike landed on Monday forms were emailed to print, sign, scan into a pdf, and email back allowing the customs house broker to act on my behalf. On Tuesday more forms arrived for me to certify the bike was older than 25 years and met all Federal emissions and safety regulations at the time it was made. Later I got another email from the broker saying they needed the full VIN, rather than the 'Z1234' I had printed on the forms, or else I wouldn't be able to register it with the DMV. I replied that the number stamped on the frame was the full "VIN" that had been used by Ariel 90 years ago. So far, nothing more since clarifying that issue so I don't yet know when it will be on a truck headed toward me. I'm having it delivered to a friend's shop that's closed Sun.-Mon. so if it doesn't get here by Saturday it will be Tuesday (or later) before I see it.


#694013 - 05/04/17 10:21 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
My friend dropped the Ariel off at a depot in Dublin on April 10 and it was at the shipper's warehouse in the UK, ~75 miles from Heathrow, the next day. Although its journey was off to a great start, at that point it hit molasses, taking 24 days to get to me despite having been shipped by "air."

Anyway, once it was at their warehouse it took the shipper (Oakbridge Logistics) 9 days to make the crate and then another 5 to get it on an airplane. Although the flight to LAX was quick, and it cleared Customs three days later, inexplicably it then took another 8 days to be delivered it to my house.

Actually, delivering it to my house was another problem since it should have gone to my friend's shop. Luckily, I didn't have any commitments on the afternoon it finally was to be delivered so I planned to be back home today to wait during the 1-5pm delivery window. The agent that Oakbridge had handling the shipping in the U.S. (Air Menzies International) was difficult to extract information from so by the time I discovered someone had screwed up the delivery address I decided it was safer not to try to fix the mistake (the trucking agency in town required any changes to be given to them by the shipping agent, not by me).

Although the delivery window was 1-5pm today, I got a call from the driver at 11:30am saying he needed to deliver it right away. So, I rushed home and arrived just as he did.

[Linked Image]

Unfortunately, I was taking photos so by the time I realized he didn't know what he was doing he had trapped the wheels of his pallet jack between the truck and the lift gate. The problem was the forks on the pallet jack were about 8" longer than the depth of the lift gate (i.e. making it impossible to use that pallet jack for this job) and despite that he lowered the gate a few inches. He couldn't lower it further because the forks started tilting the box off the gate, he couldn't raise it because the wheels now were in the way, and he couldn't safely drive it somewhere with proper loading equipment because the crate was hanging off the back of the truck. I took control at that point and with a hydraulic jack, load chain, and a couple of pieces of wood (none of which he was equipped with, nor did he even know how to use -- who doesn't know how to release the pressure in an hydraulic jack??) rescued my bike from the clutches of disaster.

[Linked Image]

All's well that ends well, and luckily I wasn't facing a time constraint, but it would have been faster to send the Ariel to the east coast by steamship (4 days in 1936) and then across the U.S. by locomotive (4 days in 1876). Seriously, some years ago I bought a bike from the factory in Italy, tracked it to the ship in Ligorno, two more stops in the Mediterranean to load and unload cargo, five ports down the East Coast, through the Panama Canal to Long Beach, through Customs, and by ground to me. That took 23 days, 1 day faster than the Ariel came by air.

Although it was boxed well, and eventually got to me in good condition (both very big positives, of course), if I were to do this again I would use a different company.

[Linked Image]

#694030 - 05/05/17 5:07 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,394
johnm Online content
BritBike Forum member
johnm  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,394
New Zealand
" if I were to do this again I would use a different company"

Probably a good plan.

Bike looks good although I understand you will completely rebuild it - It may have been assembled by the truck driver cousin ;-)

#694037 - 05/05/17 10:29 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,262
kevin roberts Online content
BritBike Forum member
kevin roberts  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,262
ohio, usa
interesting hiw much faster stuff was so many years ago, although of course the volume was much less.

wasnt it about twenty years ago that the time it took to drive a car across london had slowed back down to the time it took holmes and watson to do the same in a hansom cab?

is the bike as nice as it looks?


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#694076 - 05/05/17 6:29 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
Originally Posted by kevin Roberts
is the bike as nice as it looks?
In a word, yes. Or, yes!

The bike was restored by someone who it appears was aiming for "original" so it looks very much like a nice, complete 1928 Model C. One difference is the front mudguard is the "Wide and large section, with extra valences" of the Model D (I can't see any differences in the catalog between the C and D rear mudguards). Also, when my taller friend bought it c2010 he had Chaterlea25 make a bracket to move the seat rearward and install different handlebars. I can already tell I like the shape of the handlebars, and the seating position feels fine as well (for the all of 2 min. I sat on it in the driveway), but I'll ride it for a while before I decide whether or not to make a bracket to move the seat forward to its original position.

The one item I spotted that might be a clue to the mechanical aspect of the previous restoration is that the rear sprocket is bolted to the hub and its teeth are as-new. It's not possible to be sure from the parts catalog but it appears the original hub/sprocket assembly was one piece. So, perhaps this assembly came from some later model, or it was machined to accept a replaceable sprocket. Either way, it's an encouraging sign that the mechanical pieces that can't be seen also might have been properly dealt with.

Looking back to a thread I started on the 'General Forum' on December 31, my description of the bike I hoped to find was:

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
...a "late" (i.e. closer to 1929 than to 1919) British bike with large capacity in fairly complete mechanical
but horrible cosmetic condition somewhere in N. America and for a "reasonable" (i.e. low) price because of the missing/decrepit sheet metal.... Since it would be fairly hopeless to restore the desired rolling basket case into anything resembling concours, the price should be low and hence the huge undertaking would be worthwhile to throw myself into over the next 20 months.
The first clause relates to the desired bike's mechanical capabilities while the rest is "merely" financial. On the first, essential, clause I did great. A 1928 Ariel is a large capacity British bike and its design is one of the most modern being produced in England at that time.

On the, um, "irrelevant" financial part I actually did OK as well. The purchase was between friends so I did not overpay. I did squander ~$2.5k to get it here but, even including that, thanks to Brexit and Frexit the dollar is strong and I suspect I could sell it in the U.S. today for about what I have in it so far. Besides, on the subject of squandering money, if I don't fly First Class, my heirs will.

Also, (knock wood) the fact that it is already complete and restored, rather than an incomplete basket case, should cut a large amount of time from that necessary to re-restore it. Even problematic Indian sheet metal isn't made for vintage bikes so making some random fuel tank fit reasonably well on a bare frame would take many hours. So, I've traded money to free up at least some time to do other things over the next 16 months leading up to the Cannonball. Like ride motorcycles. Again, if I don't fly First Class, my heirs will...

#694112 - 05/06/17 1:55 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
I had hoped to take it on its first short ride tomorrow, so this afternoon I checked it over. While I was able to grease the inlet rocker whatever residue is in the the exhaust rocker has solidified and wouldn't budge. The bike has those tapered grease fittings whose name I can't remember at the moment, which limits how much force can be applied to the grease. I now have 1/4-26 Zerk fittings on order. If that doesn't let me displace the residue the rockers will have to come apart. They would anyway as part of my rebuild but I was hoping everything was in good enough shape to put some miles on it before doing any actual work. Oh well...

The forks have grease fittings of a type I've not run across before:
[Linked Image]
They're 3/16" OD and also threaded 1/4-26 and I'll substitute Zerk fittings for them as well.

#694113 - 05/06/17 2:05 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,262
kevin roberts Online content
BritBike Forum member
kevin roberts  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,262
ohio, usa
i used to work on antique cars that had a lot of screw-type grease cups:

[Linked Image]

might the reservoir that these provide be better for your purposes than just a zerk fitting? i'm thinking on terms of reliability on a long road race.



Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#694120 - 05/06/17 3:31 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: kevin roberts]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
Originally Posted by kevin roberts
screw-type grease cups ... might the reservoir that these provide be better for your purposes than just a zerk fitting?
Hmm, interesting idea. Thanks for suggesting it.

The forks have 5 grease points but they only need attention every 500 miles (i.e. every two days) so I think zerks should be fine there. For the rocker shafts the recommended interval is 300-400 miles so a shot every evening (~250 miles) should be as effective as full-time connection to a grease cup. Also, I'll have to remove the rocker cover at every gasoline stop (~100 miles) to oil the cups between the pushrods and rockers so it would be easy enough to give a shot of grease to each rocker shaft fitting at the same time.

#694142 - 05/06/17 11:07 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,098
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,098
Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
I had hoped to take it on its first short ride tomorrow, so this afternoon I checked it over. While I was able to grease the inlet rocker whatever residue is in the the exhaust rocker has solidified and wouldn't budge. The bike has those tapered grease fittings whose name I can't remember at the moment, which limits how much force can be applied to the grease. I now have 1/4-26 Zerk fittings on order. If that doesn't let me displace the residue the rockers will have to come apart. They would anyway as part of my rebuild but I was hoping everything was in good enough shape to put some miles on it before doing any actual work. Oh well...






I have had the same problem on many vintage vehicles, old tractors etc...Heat applied to the fitting area carefully with a torch and it'll warm up the shaft or bushing to soften the oil grease.. Hold the heat to about 250-300 F for a few minutes... Then use use a grease gun to try and force in new grease. Works best with Zerks...
The Wright radial aircraft engine used for Lindbergh's solo flight across the Atlantic in the 1920's has grease fittings on the rocker shafts like most engines of it's day...Spring loaded "automatic" grease cups were used for the long trip...Some vintage cars had a series of small tubes leading to the fitting from a central grease pump that could be operated while running on the road..
That's a sharp looking machine.....


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#694153 - 05/06/17 12:50 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,292
Stuart Online content
BritBike Forum member
Stuart  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,292
Scotland
Hi,

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
[Linked Image]

I was taking photos so by the time I realized he didn't know what he was doing

Don't be too hard on him, that's a rookie mistake he won't make again - that could've been a picture of me whistle years ago. Looks like some US trucking company managers are just as big bastards as some British ones - as long as fork-lifts can move a pallet in the depots, they'll take the money and pay the poor sob in the picture a pittance to take the flak from the addressee. mad

The picture two minutes earlier would've told me it was never going to come off in the crate, quicker would've been to climb up in the truck with pry-bar, open the case, unstrap the bike and wheel it on to the tail-lift - I still remember having to do that with a crated ride-on lawnmower! cool

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
forks on the pallet jack were about 8" longer than the depth of the lift gate (i.e. making it impossible to use that pallet jack for this job)

Nope. A more-experienced truck driver would've told the fork-lift driver to load the pallet jack before the crate; then, if you're lucky, the wheels on the tines of the pallet jack can be pushed off the rear edge of tail-lift without everything falling off the tail-lift; when the tail-lift's dropped to the ground, crate and pallet jack can be wheeled off. cool

Regards,

#694154 - 05/06/17 12:51 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,292
Stuart Online content
BritBike Forum member
Stuart  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,292
Scotland
Btw, bike. bigt

From another BVC (BritBike Vicarious Cannonballer grin ).

#694155 - 05/06/17 12:55 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 143
Bruce Martin Offline
BritBike Forum member
Bruce Martin  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 143
New Brunswick, Canada.
A bit late with this but I use Lubriplate MAG-00 semi-fluid grease in my 1937 Ariel Red Hunter 500's Burman BA gearbox. I did use steam oil for a short time. No problems so far.

Bruce


1937 Ariel Red Hunter 500
1970 Triumph Bonneville

Making the scene with the gasoline
#694172 - 05/06/17 6:08 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Heat applied to the fitting area carefully with a ...Works best with Zerks...
Good suggestion, thanks. I have a pump for those old British fittings but even holding it in place and whacking the end with a rubber mallet doesn't apply all that much pressure to the grease. I decided to wait until the zercs show up so a modern grease gun can apply some serious pressure to get things moving. If that doesn't work I'll add some of your heat to the mix and only then give up and start disassembling the rocker mechanism.

Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
The Wright radial aircraft engine used for Lindbergh's solo flight across the Atlantic in the 1920's has grease fittings on the rocker shafts like most engines of it's day...
On the subject of proper grease for engines like Lindbergh's and mine, I came across the following a few days ago:

http://www.jewellamberoil.com/

It sounds ideal for my use, although I'd feel better if it were supplied by a known lubricants company.

Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
That's a sharp looking machine.....
Thanks. Looking good wasn't part of my search criteria but I'm very pleased with its appearance:

[Linked Image]

Removing the pillion seat improved its looks by 20%, and if I move the seat forward to its original position that should be good for another 10%. I certainly won't be embarrassed to be seen riding it.[Linked Image]


Originally Posted by Stuart
quicker would've been to climb up in the truck with pry-bar, open the case, unstrap the bike and wheel it on to the tail-lift
It's not clear from the photo, but the ends of the crate overlapped the sides, which means the screws had to be removed from the ends before the sides could come off. Because there was no clearance between the walls of the truck removing those screws in place would have been impossible. Brute force to break the wood to gain access would have been the only choice, but what the photo also doesn't show is that 90 min. after it was taken the temperature officially hit 100 oF for the first time this year. All the effort that would have been needed to pry open the box would have been done while working in an oven with no air circulation.

Originally Posted by Stuart
Btw, bike. bigt
Thanks!


Originally Posted by Bruce Martin
I use Lubriplate MAG-00 semi-fluid grease in my 1937 Ariel Red Hunter 500's Burman BA gearbox.
Thanks. I took a quick look at its specs and it seems fine for the purpose. But a jug of the Morris semi-fluid grease should be showing up in a few weeks so I should be OK for the gearbox.

Last edited by Magnetoman; 05/06/17 6:47 pm. Reason: swapped a photo and added another
#694350 - 05/08/17 1:28 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
Nothing is easy. I'm sure I'll repeat that sentiment many times in the months to come. It was remarkably difficult to measure the dimension of the timing chain, and I probably should have taken it off the bike to do, but I hate disturbing a master link, especially when I don't have a spare one handy. Anyway, I'll want to pack a spare timing chain for the ride and the one on the bike has dimensions:

pitch 1/2"
roller diameter 0.306"
roller width 1/8"
pin diameter ~0.140" (estimated from the measured swaged end).

If not for the roller width this would be #40 chain (which has either 3/16" or 1/4" width depending on the source). But, it's too narrow to be #40. If anyone knows where I can buy chain with these dimensions I would really appreciate hearing from you.

Update: Cancel my question. I already had searched for quite a while, but a minute after posting this question I found it is "non-standard" #43. I now have 10 ft. of it on order along with a few extra master links.

Last edited by Magnetoman; 05/08/17 1:41 am. Reason: Update:
#694375 - 05/08/17 8:22 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,869
Alan_nc Online content
Alan_nc  Online Content


Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,869
Greensboro, NC
And that was probably the cheapest part you will buy for this "journey"


Alan
Cleared m out....left only
59 BSA Bantam (Trials)
78 Triumph Bonny (UPS)
02 Suzuki GS500
#694429 - 05/08/17 4:34 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Alan_nc]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
Originally Posted by Alan_nc
And that was probably the cheapest part you will buy for this "journey"
There's the cost in dollars, and then there's the cost in time. In the end it probably "cost" me an hour to buy that chain (plus the time it will take to cut 35 links from the 10 ft. length once it arrives). And that's for a backup part that, knock wood, I won't even need. Even if everything turns out to be as straightforward as the chain, this Ariel is going to cost a lot of hours before it will be ready for the Cannonball.

#694437 - 05/08/17 5:53 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,292
Stuart Online content
BritBike Forum member
Stuart  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,292
Scotland
Hi,

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Nothing is easy.
I already had searched for quite a while,

Ahem ... <koff> ... without at all wishing to appear a smart-arse, I converted your dimensions into standard roller-chain code = 410 (1/2" pitch is 4 x 1/8", roller width is 1 x 1/8"), typed "410 chain" into Google and http://chains.alliedlocke.com/item/precision-roller-chains/non-standard-series-chains/410-43-65-nss was third from the top of the list ... it appears to be a box-stock modern pushbike chain so, if Google and eBay are to be believed, the First World is awash with any length and Teflon-coated farkle you could imagine ...

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Even if everything turns out to be as straightforward as the chain, this Ariel is going to cost a lot of hours before it will be ready for the Cannonball.

Don't struggle with searches for so long? wink

Regards,

#694454 - 05/08/17 8:06 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Stuart]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
Originally Posted by Stuart
I converted your dimensions into standard roller-chain code ... it appears to be a box-stock modern pushbike chain
Box-stock, but non-standard chain. The heading on the link you have says:

Item # 410(43)(65), Non-Standard Series Chains

Indeed, I found it the same way you did. But, only after not finding it by googling lists of standard chain. If nothing else, this shows that, as is often the case, once the answer to a problem is known the route to getting to that answer is obvious.

#694617 - 05/10/17 12:25 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
Today I hauled the Ariel in for the required physical inspection of the numbers. Tomorrow, barring any unexpected glitches, I'll pick up the title, registration, and license plate.

After strapping the front down in the pickup I wiggled the back to make sure the bike was secure. The forks didn't move but the rest of the bike did. The steering bearings weren't loose enough to 'click' but they definitely were loose. Additional support for my decision to completely rebuild the bike.

#694618 - 05/10/17 12:32 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,262
kevin roberts Online content
BritBike Forum member
kevin roberts  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,262
ohio, usa
that is a beautiful machine, no doubt about it.

did you manage to scrounge any history of it's past 90 or so years? there have been almost a century of owners, and i always wonder what the stories were.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#694636 - 05/10/17 2:31 am Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: kevin roberts]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,971
U.S.
Originally Posted by kevin roberts
that is a beautiful machine,
did you manage to scrounge any history of it's past 90 or so years?
It was despatched from the factory 13 December 1927 to C.J. Rouse Motorcycles, Kettering, England, and it found its way into my friend's garage in Dublin ~83 years later. Between those dates, ┬┐quien sabe? Actually, I also know the name of the guy who sold it to my friend but I don't know its history with him, or before him.

Someone easily could overlook a Black Ariel amongst brighter, more colorful bikes (as I did for five years in my friend's garage), but once noticed I think it's quite fetching.

#694692 - 05/10/17 3:43 pm Re: Technical questions: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,071
gREgg-K Offline
BritBike Forum member
gREgg-K  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,071
Ottawa, Canada
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by kevin roberts
that is a beautiful machine,<SNIP>
<SNIP> but once noticed I think it's quite fetching.

Indeed, and I for one am glad that you fetched it!

.. Gregg


Spyder Integrated Technologies
Lucas, BTH, & Miller Magneto & Dynamo Restoration
SMITHS Chronometric Restoration
magneto@spyder-it.com
Page 2 of 15 1 2 3 4 14 15


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.598s Queries: 16 (0.061s) Memory: 1.0326 MB (Peak: 1.4221 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-11-20 13:42:15 UTC