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Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule #688379
03/17/17 2:58 am
03/17/17 2:58 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,251
South cone
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reverb Offline OP
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South cone
...hello, in my single carb motorcycle I use the cable without the ferrule so its fit inside the regulator and no problems, but in this two carbs bike that I am building I have the cables spares with ferrules that do not fit properly there. In the past I saw couple of home made adaptations.
I know that is an old question but I am new with the twin carbs; here almost all the old bikes have one carburetor so I (and most) makes the cables.
What do you guys do or is a consensus of the right thing to do in this case?

Thanks

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Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688382
03/17/17 3:24 am
03/17/17 3:24 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,268
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Posts: 11,268
North Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by reverb
...hello, in my single carb motorcycle I use the cable without the ferrule so its fit inside the regulator....



Sorry, mate. Something is lost in the translation to English !! Regulator ? You mean the twist grip ??

Triumph did this several ways around the world, but in the USA it was most common to employ (unlike BSA and Norton) a twist grip that accepted 2 throttle cables. One from each carb. At the twist grip, a "top hat" shaped spacer sitting atop each throttle cable keeps the cable from passing into the twist grip body. If the cable hangs open (say due to lack of lubrication) these parts may hop off and be lost. Great for street riding, the pits for dirt riding !!

The Triumph carb tops are also different from common BSA and Norton stock too. On most Brit bikes the carb top employed a screw adjuster and lock nut, but Triumph carbs used a simple 1/4 inch through hole. The cable end at the carb employs a special "top hat" fitting that simply sits in the hole. Cable adjustment is completed up front, 4 inches below the twist grip by in-line cable adjusters.

As a tuner I personally enjoy the 2-cable system because throttle cable lube can be added at the twist grip and it will pass all the way down. On the 3-cable system employed by those lesser brands, the tank may have to come off to do a proper cable lube. What a PIA.

Hope this helps. :bigt

Last edited by RF Whatley; 03/17/17 3:30 am.

Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688387
03/17/17 4:58 am
03/17/17 4:58 am
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South cone
...hello RF, regulator=adjuster; like you say, these Amals have those screw adjuster and the nut.
I have the throttle grip for one cable so with the junction box; but you mention that Triumph did not used this system...several years came with the junction box.

Seems that the only solution is to drill a hole in those threads.

-The cable is too short in the part that goes inside the carburetor so I do not have any space no matter if a compress the spring to reach the hole in the throttle piston so I screwed out the adjuster to have like 3/8 more distance; after apply too much force and bend the cable, I noticed that the air valve does not fit; so I came out the spring, cable and needle again, inserted the air valve with its cable and spring; but now is almost impossible to fit the other stuff...man, is so easy for me with one cable and no middle adjusters; so you can have the length of the cable you want etc.

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688393
03/17/17 7:52 am
03/17/17 7:52 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,262
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
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Scotland
Hi Fernando,

Originally Posted by reverb
I have the throttle grip for one cable so with the junction box; but you mention that Triumph did not used this system...several years came with the junction box.

Only in the US and in some years did Triumph supply a throttle for two separate cables. In those years on 'UK & General Export' variants, Meriden fitted the same throttle to both single and twin carbs., using a 1-into-2 'splitter' under the tank for twin carbs. Meriden also used "1-into-2" on bikes to all markets in later years,

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688414
03/17/17 3:03 pm
03/17/17 3:03 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,251
South cone
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reverb Offline OP
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South cone
...Hi Stuart, that s what I mentioned. So I have the 1 into 2 cable and that cable is too short regarding the AMAL spring to fit with ease in the carb piston hole so after you fit it there are no room to fit the air (choke) valve; so as mentioned, I dismantled again now fitted the air valve first but now there s no space to work out a way to fit again the piston cable.
This is my first time with an air valve...what do you guys do? This time I want to try these valves..

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688416
03/17/17 3:51 pm
03/17/17 3:51 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,835
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Offline
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Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by reverb
these Amals have those screw adjuster and the nut.



Triumph Mk1 Concentrics have mixing chamber tops with holes to take 'top hat' cable ferrules.

If your carbs have 'mixing chamber tops' with threaded adjusters and nuts then they are probably not the correct type for the standard 'Triumph' Concentric Mk1 throttle and choke cables you have.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688425
03/17/17 4:32 pm
03/17/17 4:32 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,251
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline

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Posts: 10,251
Boston, Massachusetts
As l.a.b.said except for 1968 T120R models!!! This catches a lot of people out when orering cables and assuming they are all the same.
John


Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688432
03/17/17 6:42 pm
03/17/17 6:42 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,251
South cone
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South cone
...I bought them new few years ago, seems that what AMAL sells; in the lasts 18 years I bought 4 carburetors and all have those adjusters with threads on them.

Anyway; I can take photos, but how is the procedure to put both the air valve and the piston cable?
Again, with this aftermarket cable I do not have enough space to relocate the air valve after cable fitment.

Also I have Venhill cables for the choke/j box but are way long...not what you have there L.A.B

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688461
03/18/17 12:28 am
03/18/17 12:28 am
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,835
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Offline
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Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by reverb
but how is the procedure to put both the air valve and the piston cable?


Best I can do under the circumstances. [Video deleted]

It's not a very good video but I think you should be able to follow what I'm doing.

Last edited by L.A.B.; 03/18/17 11:50 pm. Reason: Deleted video link
Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688463
03/18/17 1:07 am
03/18/17 1:07 am
Joined: Jan 2014
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...hi L.A.B; first of all I tell you that I REALLY appreciate your time to help me in this and other threads before.
Now is easier with internet forums that all share ideas and the needed information.

-Before to ask here I did it that way; in fact I always did it that way with single carburetors; but the problem that I have is not exactly the protocol; due in this case is somewhat evident; the problem is that this cable (1 into 2) is too short in the extension that goes to the piston.
The length is only 2 5/8 from the tip to the liner so I totally compress the spring (making lot of strength) and the cable still is too short to reach the hole, SO as mentioned in the other comment, I pulled off the AMAL adjuster to gain a bit more length; in that way I barely reach the hole, then the spring stays too much "forced" not like in my other bike or like in your video clip.
Then when I try to fit the air valve, in the same way like you did it there, the distance is too little so I could not.

I am thinking to cut the liner and get rid of one of the ferrules to have more free length of the cable and may be cut one spring coil.

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688467
03/18/17 1:29 am
03/18/17 1:29 am
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,835
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Offline
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Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by reverb
The length is only 2 5/8 from the tip to the liner so I totally compress the spring (making lot of strength) and the cable still is too short to reach the hole, SO as mentioned in the other comment, I pulled off the AMAL adjuster to gain a bit more length; in that way I barely reach the hole, then the spring stays too much "forced" not like in my other bike or like in your video clip.
Then when I try to fit the air valve, in the same way like you did it there, the distance is too little so I could not.

I am thinking to cut the liner and get rid of one of the ferrules to have more free length of the cable and may be cut one spring coil.


Yes, my choke cable with the top hat ferrule has about 2 3/4", (70mm) inner free length, the throttle cable is slightly less, so if you use the carb top threaded adjusters you will certainly have to shorten both cable outers.

Last edited by L.A.B.; 03/18/17 1:29 am.
Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688525
03/18/17 3:49 pm
03/18/17 3:49 pm
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Posts: 2,251
South cone
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reverb Offline OP
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South cone
...hello, here photos of the problem.
Not enough space to fit the air valve.
I think the options are:
-drill the threads in the lid to fit the hat ferrule and gain a few mm that may be let me that space for the air valve to move and fit in the cavity.
-get off the hat ferrule and cut the liner about 1//4 then put again the ferrule. In this case the liner to the adjuster will be very short; like 1 3/4 or so.
Also cut couple of coils in the springs; seems too large so not too much space to work properly┬┐?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688554
03/18/17 9:22 pm
03/18/17 9:22 pm
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,016
New Zealand
Excalibur Offline
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Posts: 1,016
New Zealand
Reverb, you need a top-hat for each cable and drill the threads out in the lid. Cable adjusters were further up the cable.

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688556
03/18/17 9:37 pm
03/18/17 9:37 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,613
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

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New Jersey USA
+1 with Excalibur.
I have had to do that on several bikes--no big deal.

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688581
03/19/17 1:02 am
03/19/17 1:02 am
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Posts: 2,251
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...Hello Excalibur, that is what I mentioned in the previous comment if you read it...
I do not have nor the possibility to have another top hat ferrule; only the one showed that came with the cable, but the air valve doe not need one; what s the advantage there?
I can compress all that spring and I am not gaining any more movement doing that.

-I am afraid that if I drill the threads still I would obtain not the necessary space to fit the air valve ┬┐?

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688593
03/19/17 2:29 am
03/19/17 2:29 am
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,866
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Offline
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Bishop, Calif.
Again,I commend you for for trying to keep one of these old turds running at the extreme end of civilization. My 68 has the threaded adjuster on both the air slide(choke) and the throttle valve even though the book only shows it on the throttle valve. I also have a separate cable for each air slide and each throttle valve. You really don't need the air slide (choke) so quit banging your head against the wall and put the thing together without it. My 72 has never had a choke. That's what the ticklers are for. And I have never used the choke on the 68. I just like the look of that big lever sticking up in the air. Don't forget to plug the hole for the missing air slide cable.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #688601
03/19/17 4:03 am
03/19/17 4:03 am
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Posts: 2,251
South cone
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reverb Offline OP
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...hi Desco, thanks. For over 20 years I have been getting rid of these air valves, but in this project I really want to test them; I put the choke lever in the sides under the carb like the 76s models, so tomorrow possibly I ll try one of the tips.

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #691158
04/10/17 3:33 pm
04/10/17 3:33 pm
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...hello, I drilled the throttle thread and the air valve finally fitted BUT without engage the junction boxes...
Then I tried to fit the cables in the junction boxes but there s not enough space or length to make it possible, so I remove all and started engaging the cables in the junction boxes (throttle box and choke box) put again the throttle cables in the slides, needles and now more difficult engaged the choke cables to the air valve. Now the problem is that the air valves do not fit anymore in the slides...I do not know exactly why. May be due to the tension of the throttle junction box that still is attached? To loose that part I need to remove everything again but then I am finish like with the first intent.
I did not drilled the air hole threads in the lids because the Venhill choke cables (that seem for a trident) do not have the top hat ferrules so they fit fine in the adjusters; but I do not see the advantage to do that. I do not see how to gain much space doing that due to the bronze tube of the air choke limit that length.

How this thing could be so miserable painful?. I cannot imagine changing and removing all these cables and valves that do not fit with ease if the throttle cable it cut...

----by the way, I see that many, included the L.A.B photo here, use the throttle cable part that goes from the box to the carb, the other way around; I mean, with the adjuster to the box not to the carburetor.
The cables come with the adjusters and the shorter part to the carburetor and seems logical because is better to have the adjusters on hand that underside of the tank; but I do not know I do not have these types of adjusters in my pre unit single carburetor...

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #691693
04/14/17 4:16 pm
04/14/17 4:16 pm
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...I managed to fit the air valve into the throttle piston; I disengaged all included the choke lever and after making too much force fitted first the air valve then the throttle cable.
Now I am dealing with the throttle twist in the handle bar, that can fit only if you remove the adjuster but now I need another couple of hands to help to put this adjuster. The action is too heavy (lots of tension) may be I would put something inside the carburetors to keep the pistons way up to help to engage this adjuster...

When closed should the air valve be touching the down part of the carburetor mouth? isn t it? or should be a few mm up?

All these seem stupid but I have after market spares and nothing of what came original from the factory so evident that could be any variation that is making this thing complicated. Plus that is my first time with these 2 junction boxes etc but what about if I cut the throttle cable on the road? I mean, I would need to disengage all this again? or after a "break in" could be easier?

Thanks

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #693449
04/30/17 1:47 am
04/30/17 1:47 am
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reverb Offline OP
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...I really think that the cable is short or I am more stupid than what I think regarding mechanics.
The cable (1 into 2) does not fit with the adjuster in the throttle twist without removing the other parts from the carburetors.
The problem that I have is that there s no movement in the handlebar; no action there AND that the throttle slides are in the 3rd position (about 1/4 open) hence I think that the shorter cables could be too short.
Measuring the large cable without the lining is: 70cm; the short ones are 35cm.
-lubed cables; nothing stick inside the carburetors and you can lift them pulling the cables with the hands; but not with the throttle twist.
So two problems actually; may be due to is too short that I had all that tension and problems trying to fit them.

Any clue?

Thanks

Re: Amal carb regulator to cable ferrule [Re: reverb] #693705
05/02/17 3:27 am
05/02/17 3:27 am
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...I decided to cut 5/8" the lining of one of the shorter cables to see what happens; now the throttle is at idle position but the cable is useless due to couple of frayed strands so I checked a Venhill choke to j/box spares that I have but they come without adjusters and without the top hat...the lining still is too long but somehow work but you cannot have a complete full throttle; however after a few attempts etc the head/tip of the longer cable that was inside the j box falls apart!
This cable is a totally crap; is thinner than the Venhill and practically does not have to much solder there! is hollow inside the head/tip...and obviously the length is wrong; I understand different years, lengths; types of carburetor lids etc but with adjuster on the lids and without adjusters the lining IS too long; it s wrong; that thing could be measured before the fabrication.
Continue seeing that ALL the after markets parts are wrong or bad quality.
Almost 20 years buying after markets parts due not having the originals or were too worn out and never ever a "plug and play" satisfaction.
The thing with these cables is that is an international order for me. Of course I can do a homemade one, like I did with the clutch (due to poor Venhill kit) but there are no top hat ferrules and no small ferrules (I see only ferrules for a thick clutch cables) and like that anywhere, so I need to go to another town try t get a machinist buddy, try to machine stuff etc but never would be so thin and I do not want to file the plastic j box holes. Many hassles to have a cable (and may be another for spares)


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