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Re: mail-order LSR [Re: pushrod tom] #691238
04/11/17 10:22 am
04/11/17 10:22 am
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,543
Running from demons in WNY
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by pushrod tom
Interesting. I spent time a few years ago figuring the numbers but, in the end, figured it out on the track. On the Hornet we use a 'standard' Newby with 21/47. That is a bit on the tall side unless everything is working really good. I have stuck with it because this current motor likes to rev and unless everything is working really good the speed won't come anyway. On the black bike with the second gen turbo, we were geared at 22/42 with a 39/68 Newby. Best speed was 162.5 and I don't think it was revving past 7k. We also observed that the tire grows at that speed. At least 1 inch in diameter! The latest set up is 21/42. If that revs out I will be quite chuffed!!!
I think the bottom line is that you need to gear realistically in order to see how your rig behaves and then use that data to make changes. The air is a WALL! Cheers, PRT

Tom, would your turbo bike go faster if you had a running start instead of a standing start? Or is a 1-1/2 miles enough?
Yes tire growth...My double engine bike has ZR rated radial tires...The growth is controlled by the design and not enough to be a factor as seen on modern sport bikes with insane top speeds and cycle parts very close to the tires..
And pushing a naked frame bike into the wind is always a struggle..About 120-130 HP is needed to get near 160 MPH based on watching the A class Harleys and talking to the riders..


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
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Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691251
04/11/17 1:21 pm
04/11/17 1:21 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
i want to watch your double eat those harleys.


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691254
04/11/17 1:59 pm
04/11/17 1:59 pm
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 470
new jersey usa
P
pushrod tom Offline
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pushrod tom  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
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new jersey usa
I think that 1.5 miles is enough space and in some cases, too much space. The extra .5 places demands that you don't see on the mile. My bike went faster (one time) at Willmington than Maine. We never quite cracked 160 up there. Some of our recorded times were on the decel because of fuel starvation or loss of nitrous pressure. So, the new set up is not as powerful on the dyno as before but seems to be very steady and I am moderately confident that it will pull hard all the way. Hopefully we will find out in a couple of weeks! PRT

PS whether we race or not in July I want to get up there to keep an eye on you guys!

Re: mail-order LSR [Re: pushrod tom] #691256
04/11/17 2:10 pm
04/11/17 2:10 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,543
Running from demons in WNY
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by kevin roberts
i want to watch your double eat those harleys.


I hope so but we shall see...The double goes on the dyno May 4th....If it makes about 115 rear wheel HP then that may convert into something close to 160 mph.
Originally Posted by pushrod tom


PS whether we race or not in July I want to get up there to keep an eye on you guys!


Tom , both "my" Triumphs will be there but as it stands now, I won't be there...If my rider needs help I told him to ask Kevin... wink


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike] #691266
04/11/17 3:34 pm
04/11/17 3:34 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
send along a box with spares for whatever is likely to break. i'll have three hundred pounds of tools, probably, and british cycle supply is right there


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691273
04/11/17 4:11 pm
04/11/17 4:11 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,543
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
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Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,543
Running from demons in WNY
I don't have any spare engines grin The Pazon Smartfire on the 650 bike has just decided to leave the building....It's been kicking back on starting back despite being properly static timed and has 13 volt while running...I checked the timing with a strobe and it idles at near 38 degrees and near 60 when reved But sounds just fine....Retarded the timing and it still kicks back....and won't start. Rechecked withe timing marks, and a different strobe, same result...Just love this electronic stuff... bigt


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691276
04/11/17 4:50 pm
04/11/17 4:50 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,107
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline
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John Healy  Offline
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J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,107
Boston, Massachusetts
HB PM me and I will see what we can sort out for you!
John


Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike] #691333
04/12/17 12:39 am
04/12/17 12:39 am
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
I don't have any spare engines


kill switches, toggles, an extra control cable, weird pre-unit special tools, gaskets, special oil, inner tubes, master links, whatever wears out in a harley starter, just the cheapie stuff.

a genuine blow-up is terminal, but i had to leave wilmington this spring after one completed run on my machine because i didn't have a spare magneto rotor-- a twenty-dollar part.


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691390
04/12/17 10:16 am
04/12/17 10:16 am
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,543
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
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Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,543
Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by kevin roberts
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
I don't have any spare engines


kill switches, toggles, an extra control cable, weird pre-unit special tools, gaskets, special oil, inner tubes, master links, whatever wears out in a harley starter, just the cheapie stuff.

a genuine blow-up is terminal, but i had to leave wilmington this spring after one completed run on my machine because i didn't have a spare magneto rotor-- a twenty-dollar part.



That's a long list....All I ever took to any of the 4 races including Maine was safety wire, electrical tape, spark plugs, spare battery and jets...Actually I did think of a spare starter motor..

The Canadian vendor British Cycle Supply has a US warehouse just a few miles from Loring. They said the phones will be manned during the race days to assist any racers......


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691403
04/12/17 12:31 pm
04/12/17 12:31 pm
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 470
new jersey usa
P
pushrod tom Offline
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pushrod tom  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 470
new jersey usa
Actually, BCS is located on the base. Nice to know. Usually we are to busy to drop by and say hi.

Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691468
04/12/17 8:41 pm
04/12/17 8:41 pm
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 96
Alaska
L
linker48x Offline
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linker48x  Offline
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L
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 96
Alaska
Just to complete something I mentioned above--Here's a couple pics of the short pipes Jack Wilson told me to use about 25 years ago, one sitting still, one in motion and leaned over.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

These short pipes were used by a lot of AHRMA Triumph racers back in the 90's. (Nowadays there aren't very many Triumphs out in AHRMA F750 and Sportsman 750, but folks use an array of 2 into 1's, longer single pipes, etc.) Note that the factory TT pipes are 43 inch around the outside of the bends. These are standard TT pipes cut off at the end of the bend, 29 inch head pipes,with a 14 inch megaphone on them, 43 inches total, same length as the original TT pipes. The megaphone is 13 inch to 3 1/2 dia, then a 1 inch reverse cone to 2 1/2 inches. Although the original TT pipes give a nice power band, these with the megaphones are too short, too pipey, I think, for my meager talents on a road race course--at full throttle they stumble up to 4500 or so and then begin to really pull strongly at 5000, and the engine spins up to 7500 or so very quickly, and it has above 50 ft-lbs torque from 5000-7200. In the pics above, you can see the up pipes I made to replace these identical but are a bit longer, 32 inch head pipes, and something I think really helped, a 2 1/2 inch muffler core 4 inches long, held in a 3 1/2 inch straight section with a flat end and packing--I think this eased the flow at the back and helped kill the megaphonitis at lower rpm. Now this is a sort of tractor, power starts at or just below 4000, and pulls up to 7000, with just a little trailing off as you get there. This works for road racing much better, but not so sure you guys running flat out would agree that you need such a broad spread of power. I am curious how the original 43 inch set would work for you guys, for straightaway running. Pretty easy for you to try, and switch out.

By the way, I don't remember the measurements he told me, but John Healy's bike uses much longer pipes, he told me he thinks these are too short.

Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691491
04/12/17 11:17 pm
04/12/17 11:17 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
i can try that. i already have enough stuff to make up something similar.

who knows?


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691516
04/13/17 2:34 am
04/13/17 2:34 am
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 96
Alaska
L
linker48x Offline
BritBike Forum member
linker48x  Offline
BritBike Forum member
L
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 96
Alaska
I think I have two pairs, one in California with the bike, one here, set up to mount with springs over 1 3/4 spigots. Back mounts for a Champion frame but modifiable.

Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691517
04/13/17 2:34 am
04/13/17 2:34 am
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 96
Alaska
L
linker48x Offline
BritBike Forum member
linker48x  Offline
BritBike Forum member
L
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 96
Alaska
I think I have two pairs, one in California with the bike, one here, set up to mount with springs over 1 3/4 spigots. Back mounts for a Champion frame but modifiable.

Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #691984
04/16/17 11:19 pm
04/16/17 11:19 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
almost ready for july!

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #692402
04/19/17 10:40 pm
04/19/17 10:40 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
finally found the source for the 5/16-24 pre-drilled jam nuts for triumph conical and disc front fork caps. these are a real PITA to drill out for safety wire, and there 4 of the buggers on each leg.

http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/viewitems/aircraft-nuts/drilled-jam-nut

[Linked Image]

sorry out of stock on the right ones at the moment, but i bought a handful here before.

lots of other interesting stuff. they even have a motorcycle/aviation oil and grease section that would be great to look through for the next motor oil debate here.


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #692476
04/20/17 1:05 pm
04/20/17 1:05 pm
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 470
new jersey usa
P
pushrod tom Offline
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pushrod tom  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
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new jersey usa
Kevin, You are a master of suspense!! We want to hear how it runs! PRT

Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #692480
04/20/17 1:16 pm
04/20/17 1:16 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
lol

me too, tom.

i still work 12 or 16 hours per day, so i can only hit this puppy on weekends. i need to clay the pistons and build pipes. then i'm ready to dyno it.

brand new stinking V-rated tires arrived yesterday. my H rated tires were still brand new, too, but you made them illegal with your hornet.

dont need any more parts. just more time.


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #693537
04/30/17 11:05 pm
04/30/17 11:05 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
clayed the new rob hall head. couldn't find the clay i used last time, so i tried playdough instead. no go, the stuff is springy and expands back after you squeeze it. gave that to the kids and finally found some oil-based modeling clay.

no problems at all with the domes. didn't think there would be, but checked anyway:

[Linked Image]

lots of clearance on the exhaust side:

[Linked Image]

left exhaust about 0.120

[Linked Image]

right exhaust at 0.100

[Linked Image]

left intake at 0.065

[Linked Image]

right intake also at 0.065

[Linked Image]

i'm using a copper base gasket and copper rocker box gaskets too, each at 0.021 inches. i could tighten up the clearances by leaving the rocker box gaskets off, and i may do that. have to think a bit. i may do a repeat tomorrow to check the right intake valve to valve pocket clearances, as they seem a bit tight with these oversize valves. worked okay with the others, but i've changed things.


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #693580
05/01/17 10:52 am
05/01/17 10:52 am
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,918
Asheville, NC
Mike Baker Offline
BritBike Forum member
Mike Baker  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,918
Asheville, NC
I've been told that .060" is a good place to be for valve/ piston interface.
Have you checked for cam/ flywheel clearance? Again I've been told to have at least .060.

Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Mike Baker] #693593
05/01/17 12:59 pm
05/01/17 12:59 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,543
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,543
Running from demons in WNY
.060 on valves has worked for me even when the rider overran the cams. Cam to flywheel on my bikes is about 45 to 50 thousands


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #693600
05/01/17 1:49 pm
05/01/17 1:49 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
cam to flywheel in this setup was so great i didnt even measure it. about an eighth of an inch. the billet crank flywheel is much smaller than stock.

ran fine to 8000 rpm several times last summer .not on purpose, though.


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #693604
05/01/17 2:11 pm
05/01/17 2:11 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 174
Nova Scotia, Canada
K
koncretekid Offline
BritBike Forum member
koncretekid  Offline
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K
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 174
Nova Scotia, Canada
Don't forget to clay the squish band area around the edge. You can probably get away with .035".
[Linked Image]
Tom


Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: koncretekid] #693620
05/01/17 4:45 pm
05/01/17 4:45 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,543
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,543
Running from demons in WNY
My 650 Triumph modified production bike quench looks like this with MAP 10.5 pistons...Between .039 .032 depending on where it's measured...The dual engine Triumph is a bit tighter. I don't use cylinder base gaskets..........

[Linked Image]


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #693628
05/01/17 5:59 pm
05/01/17 5:59 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,817
ohio, usa
i have a clearance issue with tbe tappet blocks. i need to measure that again tonight. easy to do.

i raised them up a bit with valve spring shims, plus the tappet blocks i used have deeper recesses for tbe tappet foot. the base gasket helps by 0.021, but i'd like to delete it.


live every day.
die once.
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