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#691926 - 04/16/17 11:49 am BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment  
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semprini Offline
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I've recently acquired an A65 but suspect some mis-alignment. The distance between the pillion footrest frame-loop and the adjacent s/arm is about 7mm nearside and 15mm offside, so probably a result of nearside crash damage in its past. The wheel alignment seems spot on along with equally spaced spindle adjuster bolts, so it might be confined to the frame loop only. So, could fellow owners confirm my findings?


a
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#691935 - 04/16/17 2:53 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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gunner Online content
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Just checked my measurements and the pillion footrest to swingarm clearance seems to be approx 12mm each side of the swinging arm. My A65 uses an early A65 Star frame with the full loop rear frame mounting but has a 1968 Firebird engine.

I don't know what differences there were between the early and late A65 frames but I imagine the pillion footrest loop on each side would be similar, with regard to the swinging arm clearance.

As suggested, it sounds like your frame has been in a smash sometime and although you could fix this yourself, its worthwhile getting the complete frame jigged and corrected.

I recently used Motoliner Maidstone to jig and correct a 750 Commando I'm restoring and can recommend their services.

There are some online drawings of A65 frame dimensions for both early and late pre OIF models which may be of use see images below :-

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Last edited by gunner; 04/16/17 8:05 pm.

1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
#691946 - 04/16/17 5:27 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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Because the chain run is on the near side, the whole frame, especially the seat rail on all the BSA's I've seen are aligned with that in mind. With the seat fitted, everything will look equal.


Plus one to having the frame checked though.

Last edited by Allan Gill; 04/16/17 5:29 pm.

beerchug
#691953 - 04/16/17 7:31 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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semprini Offline
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Thank you both for the info which confirms that there is a problem; the bike probably landed on the near side because the front rest was a little off-square until I straightened it.


a
#691964 - 04/16/17 9:08 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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A proper frame alignment company can sort this. I'm using the mobile version of this site so I can't see where your from, but if it's the UK, SRM can do this for you.

As I say, seat rails sit further out on the chain side, this is because the swing arm is also further out on the chain side too all because of the chain


beerchug
#692160 - 04/18/17 8:46 am Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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semprini Offline
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I'm based in north Sheffield.


a
#692161 - 04/18/17 9:06 am Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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What year is the frame? Sorry if you've already mentioned this.


beerchug
#692183 - 04/18/17 2:01 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: Allan Gill]  
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semprini Offline
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Its a 68 registered, noticed silencers are marked1/68


a
#692193 - 04/18/17 3:56 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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Nice, you will have to post up some photos.

My lightning is a 68 and I have a 67 spitfire frame.

Last edited by Allan Gill; 04/18/17 3:57 pm.

beerchug
#692209 - 04/18/17 5:38 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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semprini Offline
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What's the difference between the frames you have? Can't post any photos yet as the tank and side panels etc are off until the frame is repaired.

can I PM you?


a
#692386 - 04/19/17 9:03 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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Allan,
That's interesting, I'm currently waiting for a '67 Spitfire to be delivered that's currently sitting in a 1970 Lightning frame - clearly matching is somewhat old hat.
Dave

#692393 - 04/19/17 9:23 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: A65_lover]  
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redrooster Offline
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My 64 a65 is not equal

#692438 - 04/20/17 6:50 am Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: A65_lover]  
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Originally Posted by A65_lover
Allan,
That's interesting, I'm currently waiting for a '67 Spitfire to be delivered that's currently sitting in a 1970 Lightning frame - clearly matching is somewhat old hat.
Dave



That will be interesting to see when you get it. The spitfire frame of mine has had (not by me) the rear sections cut off after the seat brackets, not an issue for me as the frame would get modified further and turned into a racer. I was looking at getting another frame with V5 and swapping the rear section over, sleeve and weld the rear loop back on.

If this is of any interest to you let me know, only thing is I'm looking for a 67 frame(with a 67 Reg)


beerchug
#692481 - 04/20/17 1:19 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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semprini Offline
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The '68 frame is detailed here No 82-8281, earlier years have different part nos but details can be seen on the relevant (year) exploded drawings.

https://www.draganfly.co.uk/index.php/bsa/bsa/a50-a-a65/1968/category/296-frame

It's also noticeable, when you look from the rear, that the nearside silencer is a little further in than the offside. I initially thought it was due to a bent silencer bracket until further investigation. Also, the offside edge of the stand foot strikes the bottom of the silencer when sprung back up. I would think that, on mine, the sw/arm clearances ought to be equal.


a
#692495 - 04/20/17 2:11 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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As I mentioned earlier the swing arm isn't equal on both sides, the chain run doesn't permit this. The rear shocker mounts are also not mirror positioned to reflect this, ie the drive side mount is further out.

67-68 frames are identical. Similar to earlier open loop frames but the seat lugs are about 2-3 inches further back. (We will forget the hornet frames at this point)

69-70 frames are identical. Some have fairing mounts on the head stock, the seat mounts are different again (raised this time) and they use a different swing arm.

Pre 67 bikes all have their own anomalies and different versions and swinging ark options. (Choice of 3) depending on open or closed chainguard, length and wheel Hub type.

Last edited by Allan Gill; 04/20/17 2:13 pm.

beerchug
#696353 - 05/24/17 1:13 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: Allan Gill]  
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Thanks for the frame info Alan.

Wonder if someone would compare this brake- pedal bush angle with their own A65. It appears to me that (as far as I can see) the exhaust pipes run parallel with the frame centre line. If frame repairs are required then I think I will have to wait until the end of the season.

http://imgur.com/a/jlTZe

Last edited by semprini; 05/24/17 1:14 pm.

a
#696379 - 05/24/17 6:35 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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I do know the early frames use a different down pipe that doesn't have the slight kick. I'm thinking you might have the later pipe on an early frame. The frame mounting tabs are also different. One mounts to the top of the down pipe tab
early, the other to the bottom late.

#696548 - 05/26/17 11:29 am Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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Au
Hi, it's cold,dark,wet and late however I went down to the shed and used your rough style of measurement on my 1969 firebird frame to find ~ 15mm on the right side and 7mm on other give or take, only used a tape and torch.
I would suggest getting some more info before pulling on frame.
Cheers Mark.

#696584 - 05/26/17 8:24 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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Thankyou for that markoz.

If you look at the photo, the LH silencer is closer in than the RH causing the centre-stand foot to foul it (the silencer support bracket is not bent). This leads me to suspect that something might be amiss with the LH frame loop.

http://imgur.com/a/Ap7JI

A further puzzle is the position of the brake rod which is fouling the stop-switch bracket even when set on the lower pedal hole. Is something missing like another bracket?


a
#696587 - 05/26/17 8:38 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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gunner Online content
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Looks like you have the wrong brake switch and the brake rod is attached to the wrong hole on the pedal.

Have a look at This Thread and you will see that the brake switch is actually mounted on its own special bracket using the hole just above the swinging arm pivot. A second bracket is mounted on the brake pedal using the two forward holes and this bracket engages with the brake switch.

The brake rod is meant to attach to the rear hole on the pedal and you may find it necessary to shorten the rod as they are sometimes too long.

Last edited by gunner; 05/26/17 8:38 pm.

1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
#696591 - 05/26/17 8:54 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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But if it is the wrong switch, it begs the question of why the existing switch bracket? I had used the bottom hole just for seeing whether a better clearance could be achieved. I fear that when the supension compresses the rod will foul unless it is well bent, which it was when the bike was delivered. Strange.


a
#696622 - 05/27/17 7:22 am Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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Any more photos? Everything I'm seeing so far looks normal.

The heel on the centre stand will hit the LH silencer and the silencers will hug the foot rest loops you mention.

Last edited by Allan Gill; 05/27/17 7:25 am.

beerchug
#696627 - 05/27/17 8:03 am Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: Allan Gill]  
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When I've got the tank and seat back on and given it a wash I'll send some more photos.


a
#696630 - 05/27/17 9:27 am Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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gunner Online content
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I suspect that at some point someone may have fitted rear sets and moved the brake pedal to the pillion mount, hence the need for a new brake switch mount. This may also account for the misalignment of the exhausts, perhaps a previous owner deliberately bent the pillion loop for extra clearance somewhere?

It would be simple enough to convert back to the normal arrangement, the parts are readily available. I would cut off the extra bracket as it seems to foul the brake rod.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
#696765 - 05/29/17 1:12 pm Re: BSA A50/65 Frame Alignment [Re: semprini]  
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IME , exhaust fittings move, as pipes heat up and cool down they shift around , they seldom fit correctly when new, and after initial fitting they settle after a few heat cycles. Dont lose any sleep over your pipe alignment.
The brake rod is a different matter, looks like you need to review some stuff there, as fitted it just looks wrong, the rod looks too long, and if the bend is needed perhaps the rear operating arm is the wrong one or has been bent, more offset here would help get a straight rod to clear the furniture.
The brake switch certainly isnt helping, stock striker and switch would put that right.


71 Devimead A65 750
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