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Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683419
02/02/17 10:02 am
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i think i will try to sand down the high spots...and maybee go for the green in the letters instead of the black, i think it could be very nice, but not very "original"

when i examined the badges closer, i found that the chrome has som needletip-sized spots underneath the "eyebrow". so i think i will see if i can find a good chromer here in thailand.
once again, thanks for your inputs, stuart
yours benny jensen


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Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683434
02/02/17 1:44 pm
02/02/17 1:44 pm
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The badge will pull slightly closer as you tighten it and the high spots push into the paint. You can re profile the curve but I would suggest doing so before you re chrome the badges. Lay some two inch masking tape on the tank side to protect it, lay some one inch tape along the top of the badge following the curve, bolt the badge on and nip it up. Use a sharp pencil pressed flat against the tank to scribe a line on the tape. Remove badge and carefully file away the high spots. I've been using a belt sander.

To make the job less intimidating start by tipping the the pencil tip inwards and your mark should only catch the high spots, you can then remove metal in several smaller stages checking and re marking as you go.

Rod


So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683466
02/02/17 6:56 pm
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hi rod... thats a good advice...luckely i have a belt sander her in thailand, makes the job more easy..

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683471
02/02/17 7:57 pm
02/02/17 7:57 pm
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I found that a pair of repro badges had slightly the wrong curvature for the tank.
The radius of the badge was smaller than that of the tank.
Rather than filing or sanding I set the badge on blocks at the four corners to make it level and the carefully pressed down in the middle of the badge --this bent the badge out a bit. I did this until the two radii were the same--the badges then fitted well on the tank.
More than one way to kill the cat I guess!
HTH

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683472
02/02/17 8:13 pm
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i think that mine has the opposite curve...i can see a clear gab in the front and in the back of the badge, and it is not uniform all the way round...when you are doing this bending i think you should be very careful, the cast iron is not very flexible, and break easy, i guess...

Last edited by benny jensen; 02/02/17 10:38 pm.
Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683501
02/03/17 2:03 am
02/03/17 2:03 am
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Trident man, I did exactly that with some re pop badges on another tank. One of the badges started to crack just above the rear mounting screw hole. The badges I'm currently arguing with only touch the tank as it starts to roll around at the front but then have a 1/16 gap at the front the tip.



Rod


So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683509
02/03/17 5:47 am
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oh rod, that is a lot, am lucky with mine...i think that i easy can make them total flush with a little sanding here and there...now i am about to find a chromer, who can do a decent work...
todays lesson: dont mess with cast iron...
benny

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683510
02/03/17 6:12 am
02/03/17 6:12 am
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Hi Benny,

Originally Posted By benny jensen
dont mess with cast iron

Just to be clear, the badges are not "cast iron", that's what the cylinder block is made from. smile Badges made from cast iron would be very heavy; they are likely to be of something like Mazak - a lightweight alloy including zinc, aluminium and magnesium.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683516
02/03/17 9:43 am
02/03/17 9:43 am
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My badges touched OK at front and rear but there was a gap--maybe 1/32" in the middle.
Carefully bent a little as described and it was OK.
I recognize that the metal is not the best to try to bend--maybe I was lucky--although it sounds as if mine were not so far out as Rods and Bennys.
HTH

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683518
02/03/17 9:49 am
02/03/17 9:49 am
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The badges shown were introduced in 1969. Previous tank badges had different part numbers cast onto their backs, indicating which tanks they were made to fit. The proper curve was cast into the badge.

A few years ago, I ran into the no-fit same problem as indicated above. For SOME UNKNOWN REASON, the new-style badges have the SAME numbers on every badge. Maybe Triumph cast them all the same, then used jigs or templates to grind the proper curve into each one, individually?

As to the reproduction badges cracking at the screw holes: I once ordered a pair of those, and saw the holes were counter-sunk SO DEEP there was almost no material left for the screws to hold the badge to the tank. I returned the badges to the vendor, explaining this.

The vendor's reply:
"Nobody ever complained before!"

Also, this is why you should check the fit of EVERYTHING, and do it BEFORE you paint ANYTHING.






Last edited by Irish Swede; 02/03/17 1:11 pm.
Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: Irish Swede] #683552
02/03/17 3:46 pm
02/03/17 3:46 pm
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Hi,

Originally Posted By Irish Swede
The badges shown were introduced in 1969. Previous tank badges had different part numbers cast onto their backs, indicating which tanks they were made to fit. The proper curve was cast into the badge.

Mmmm ...

Pre-'66, I know there were different ("mouth organ"?) badges with different curves.

'66-'68, certainly all the 500 and 650 parts books, plus the '68 250 book, show the same F6887 and F6888 part numbers ("wing"? badges).

'69/'70, While the 250 and both UK & General Export and US 500 tanks use F9700/1, as does the UK & General Export 650, allegedly the US-market 650 and the 'beauty-kit' T150 use F11340/1. But "82-9700" and "82-9701" are hand-written beside the left badge in the 1969 US-market 650 parts book ... confused

'71-'74 UK & GE and US T100's, '71-'74 US T150's, '71-78 US 650 and 750 twins all list just F9700/1 or 82-9700/1. Not until '79 do the part numbers - for the same badges pictured - change to 83-7371/2. Reason? confused

Originally Posted By Irish Swede
For SOME UNKNOWN REASON, the new-style badges have the SAME numbers on every badge. Maybe Triumph cast them all the same, then used jigs or templates to grind the proper curve into each one, individually?

Or could it just be different moulds? I doubt Meriden or an outside supplier cast 'em one-at-a-time; no chance whoever's cast 'em for the last two or three decades is still using the same moulds as whoever cast 'em in the 1960's and 1970's.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683637
02/04/17 1:35 am
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have anyone seen badges painted with the same colorsceme as the tank, if anyone have, i would like to see som pictures of it...does not matter what colorscheme or model, just to see how it could bee with my colors...hope it makes sence....

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: Stuart] #683693
02/04/17 4:27 pm
02/04/17 4:27 pm
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In view of Stuart's comments, I went to my storage shelves and inspected two original, un-rechromed 1969 and later tank badges, one for each side, the numbers cast on their backs being 82-9700 and 82-9701.

On their back sides, halfway forward on their mounting surfaces, there is evidence of grinding marks under the chrome. To me, at least, this indicates that the badges were either test-fitted to a tank before being plated, or a fixture was used to determine where they must be ground to fit a specific size of tank.

The rearward half of each badge shows a horizontal ridge along the upper and lower badge mounting surfaces made when the tank badge was molded in the die. So, the front half of the badge is the critical area that MUST be "fitted."

Part numbers listed in the Triumph parts book are for NEW parts, properly labeled and wrapped. This is where our identification problem enters the question: when we deal with second-hand 1969-78 used badges, we do not have the benefit of this labeling.

The hand-written part numbers in the parts book, to which Stuart refers, were (probably) put there to identify used, or unlabeled and unwrapped NEW tank badges, but only to locate them on the "spare parts" shelf.

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683700
02/04/17 5:39 pm
02/04/17 5:39 pm
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I believe that the badges were mainly cast from zinc, and sometimes from pot metal. Both are very soft metals that will deform easily, especially with some heat.

Be advised that they can deform during the plating process and that once you have them back, they may need some tweaking to fit. If done carefully, they can be bent a little without breaking. You may hear cracking which is the plating and that will mean decreased life expectancy.

Been there, done that. I try to find proper fitting reproductions if I can to avoid this problem.
But they're not always available.

These are the typical challenges of the restorer.....

Cheers,
Bill


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Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683730
02/04/17 10:02 pm
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i just found a picture, from the day i collected the tank, it shows the color more as it is in the real world...can anybody try to describe the tone compared to the correct color lincoln green...at the left my friend bu and to the right noi, the painter.
and to you rod: i found out that the color he used is a stock color from a big japanesee producer of paint, nippon paint.


Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: Irish Swede] #683731
02/04/17 10:08 pm
02/04/17 10:08 pm
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Hi,

Originally Posted By Irish Swede
two original, un-rechromed 1969 and later tank badges, one for each side, the numbers cast on their backs being 82-9700 and 82-9701.

On their back sides, halfway forward on their mounting surfaces, there is evidence of grinding marks under the chrome. To me, at least, this indicates that the badges were either test-fitted to a tank before being plated, or a fixture was used to determine where they must be ground to fit a specific size of tank.

Mmmm ... 'fraid I don't see "a specific size of tank".

From "'69/'70, While the 250 and both UK & General Export and US 500 tanks use F9700/1, as does the UK & General Export 650, allegedly the US-market 650 and the 'beauty-kit' T150 use F11340/1" on its own, it could be extrapolated that the "US-market 650 and the 'beauty-kit' T150" had a different curve to the other tanks, especially as the 'beauty-kit' T150 tank has the same shell as the TR6R tank.

BUT bear in mind, "''71-'74 US T150's ... list just F9700/1 or 82-9700/1" - '71 and '72 US-market T150's have exactly the same tank as '69 'beauty kit' and '70 'North American Variant' T150's; the tank only changed in '73 when the top seam disappeared when all the tanks' tooling changed (and 82-9700/1 are listed for '73 and '74 US-market T150 tanks).

Based simply on what's in the parts books, imho "evidence of grinding" could equally indicate simply that some/all badges needed finishing to a standard curve. That was normal practice on other parts that required greater finished precision; I doubt tank badge moulds were high-precision?

Nevertheless, given how many times he's told us parts books on their own aren't always correct, John H is probably laughing his eyes out (or rolling them in despair) ...

Originally Posted By Irish Swede
The hand-written part numbers in the parts book,
were (probably) put there to identify used, or unlabeled and unwrapped NEW tank badges, but only to locate them on the "spare parts" shelf.

I'd say only "possibly". Nothing says when they were written. Equally, as JH has posted many times in the past, there could have been a correction sheet either issued with the book or sometime before '71, that deleted F11340/1 in favour of F9700/1.

Regards,

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683732
02/04/17 10:20 pm
02/04/17 10:20 pm
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Hey Benny. Difficult to describe these colours as they left the factory. Lincoln green was a candy meaning a translucent colour coat over a base/ground coat that in this case was silver. Essentially it would have looked to be a solid colour until it caught the sun and you would see the shade change slightly and be able to pick out the silver. This is not the same as metallic where you can see the metallic particles all the time in the surface of the paint. Since a candy will change shades the more top coats are applied it's unlikely that two tanks painted the same day would have looked the same. This is why I say that you need to look for a colour that represents what Triumph used as you will never match it. At a rough guess from the photos I would say your painter has used a modern single stage pearl to replicate the old candy look. He has done you proud!

Oh, quarter litre of single stage pearl will set me back about $50 nz through a trade account. Closer to $80 nz retail.

Rod

Last edited by R Moulding; 02/04/17 10:26 pm.

So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: Stuart] #683733
02/04/17 10:43 pm
02/04/17 10:43 pm
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Stuart, regarding the "fit" of the '69 and later badges, all I can do is voice my theory, and I have now run out of theories.
But I certainly would not want to carry a gas tank to a lot of swap meets, hoping to find a pair of badges that would properly fit it.

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: R Moulding] #683735
02/04/17 11:02 pm
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hi rod...it looks astoning "live", and i am very happy with the result, it has a debth in it, nearly endless...and you are right, it is a single stage pearl color build up in many layers... you must take a vacation here in thailand, and pack your suitcase with color :-) 80 nz dollars is more than i gave for the whole lot...wauuuu

Last edited by benny jensen; 02/04/17 11:12 pm.
Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683771
02/05/17 8:01 am
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Hi Benny,

If you took a small tin with an air-tight lid to the sprayer, could he supply a small amount of the green paint liquid? Then take it home and paint inside the letters with a thin brush? Likely need a lot of patience and possibly more than one coat to match the tank.

Regards,

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683784
02/05/17 9:40 am
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stuart, have you seen someone using the "maincolor" on the tank, as filling in the letters...it sounds like a good idea...and instead of re-chroming i think i will by some leaf gold here in thailand ( 24 k is very cheap) and adhere it to the frame around the letters where the chrome has some tiny spots or small holes... the eyebrow it self are spotless...ok, maybee a little crazy, but cheaper than a re-chroming...
yours benny

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #683818
02/05/17 2:49 pm
02/05/17 2:49 pm
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Keep in mind that modern base coat will look nothing like the finished product without a clear coat and you will need to use the same clear to get the same depth in the finish.

Rod

Last edited by R Moulding; 02/05/17 2:50 pm.

So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #686296
02/28/17 10:01 am
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i just got the tank back from the painter today, he had to make a little adjustment...i got small bottles
of paint from him, brand name and number of the paint, he also told me how his procedure was...first he laid out the silver, then he sprayed on the green in several layers, so the sparkles from the silver is seen through the green... so i am sure that it is a candy paintjob he did, and on top of it all i read on the tin, that the color is a nitrocellulose laquer...he ended it all with 2 coats of 2k clear...so i am very satisfied, and will now try to paint the badges with these colors...it may take som time, but i will post the result here when i am finished...

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #690701
04/06/17 4:46 pm
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rebuild engine, new headlight "ears", rebuild front fork, painted tank, also bought a secondhand rearlight, starts to look like a proper 1969 daytona...by the way, anyone know the torque settings for the cylinderhead bolts?
well here it is:
[Linked Image]

Re: paint scheme triumph t100r, daytona 1969 [Re: benny jensen] #690767
04/07/17 7:21 am
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Looks the mutts nuts from here Benny. There is a test that any and every Triumph should pass however......

You should be able to settle down in a comfy chair in full view of the bike, reach down, grab your favourite bottle of beer and smile quietly to yourself as the bottle reaches your lips. Commonly known as Motorcycle staring, it's good for the mind, body and soul.

Rod


So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
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