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zbracer but who was it for #686726
03/03/17 10:16 pm
03/03/17 10:16 pm
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 95
united kingdom
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mr.moto Offline OP
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I was in my workshop a few days ago and looked up to see this picture. It was gifted to me by paul gurney about 15 years ago just before he died from cancer. Paul was my best drinking buddy. Paul built a number of zb goldies back before anyone knew what a zb was. At the time paul was building his first zb he found this picture in a factory in the west midlands. We always wondered who this bike was built for. the original is on a board 15"x!!".
Please let me have your thoughts. It looks like a 7" front brake, so, pre 1951?
give me your thoughts, pat a .[Linked Image]

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Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: mr.moto] #686741
03/04/17 12:43 am
03/04/17 12:43 am
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Boomer Offline

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I would venture a guess that it's a '49 with the 7" brake, early BSA script on the timing cover, and maybe early tank vent. It has a magdyno and the factory Daytona bikes that year had BTH single racing mags. They also had a megaphone so maybe this is a private entry somewhere at home or on the continent. Gene Thiessen was number 84 at the '49 Daytona and 83 was assigned to a Triumph. The other two riders for BSA were Hubert Simon on number 57 and Tommy Mcdermott on 127. Most of the time the racers were able to keep their machines to campaign the rest of the year and beyond so it could be a '49 entered into a race the following year or two although it looks awfully clean and original. I know Tommy Mcdermott was invited back to BSA at the end of the '49 racing year and ended up working on his own '50 Daytona race bike. He told me that the number one change was to make a bigger tank so he wouldn'd have to stop as often for refueling. There's a picture floating around that shows him standing next to the bike at the factory and you can see that the tank is bigger.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: Boomer] #686803
03/04/17 9:08 pm
03/04/17 9:08 pm
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Posts: 95
united kingdom
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mr.moto Offline OP
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Hi Boomer, thanks for your reply. Your pointing out the magdyno, together with the headlamp brackets and the roadbike size tank, suggest a road bike stripped for racing.The year 1949 ,of course would suggest Harold Clark winning the junior clubmans TT. (RACE TIME 1H 31M 21.6S AVERAGE SPEED 75.18MPH).
Unfortunately I cant find anything on the internet to show his race number. There is a tiny picture in the book by A.Golland, "GOLDIE", on page 69, but the race numbers have been removed.
Pat A.

Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: mr.moto] #686804
03/04/17 9:42 pm
03/04/17 9:42 pm
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The '49 Daytona factory bikes had an aftermarket dual seat of sorts and used the headlight ears to mount the front number plate but they were bent over to offer a flat mounting area. Interesting that Ian Jackson says the first '49 Gold Star on the dispatch list says ZB34GS 105 sent out in April when the Daytona race was in March.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: Boomer] #686981
03/06/17 8:34 am
03/06/17 8:34 am
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 136
Ireland
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David Cass1 Offline
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Looks like a 49/50 ZB32 to me- 7" brake and 21" front wheel was common in '50.
pity it can't be enlarged for the engine number

David C

Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: David Cass1] #687197
03/08/17 1:21 am
03/08/17 1:21 am
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Posts: 74
Sydney, Australia
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Mebbo Offline
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According to Roy Bacon, "BSA Singles Restoration" page 182, this is Jack Difazio's bike which he rode to 17th place in the '49 Clubman's Junior (15 June '49), so a 350 ZB32GS. In the Pidcock and Snelling "The History of the Clubman's TT Races 1947-1956", which lists starters and finishers plus a wealth of other information, there is confirmation of Difazio's race number as "83" (Harold Clark, the winner, was 56), and he represented the Frome and District Motor Cycle and Light Car Club.

No idea what the engine number might be, but the oil tank, wingless logo and 7" brake confirm an early 1949 model. I can't see a regulator box so assume the dynamo was disconnected or may just be a dummy?

Re Boomer's comments on Daytona, there is a picture of Tommy McDermott alone at that race and on close inspection looks like he's on a rigid, whereas Thiessen and Simon are on plunger frames. Also I believe the Daytona bikes are part of 101-104 which Ian Jackson says have no shipping information and I suppose must have been kept for racing by the factory.

Mebbo

Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: Mebbo] #687223
03/08/17 5:59 am
03/08/17 5:59 am
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Originally Posted by Mebbo


Re Boomer's comments on Daytona, there is a picture of Tommy McDermott alone at that race and on close inspection looks like he's on a rigid, whereas Thiessen and Simon are on plunger frames. Also I believe the Daytona bikes are part of 101-104 which Ian Jackson says have no shipping information and I suppose must have been kept for racing by the factory.

Mebbo


If you are saying they were returned after the race they weren't all kept by the factory. I base my statement on the fact that I own Hubert Simon's race bike from that race and he told me himself that he was able to hold onto it to race further that year. He was a BSA dealer in Portland so that may have had some influence on that but he also said he thought the plunger frame was terrible for dirt racing and he sold it several years later. The numbers fit into the range you suggest.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: mr.moto] #687514
03/10/17 6:14 pm
03/10/17 6:14 pm
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I do not have any figures for that. My method is to snug down evenly and then start tightening each bolt one turn opposite from each other to get an even fit. I usually remove the magneto to make sure the back one gets its share. Although, I do seem to remember a post by GSRon-RIP, that said that bolt isn't that important and is sometimes left out.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: mr.moto] #688103
03/14/17 2:43 pm
03/14/17 2:43 pm
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NYC and York PA
wadeschields Offline

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Is that how the factory chain guard fits? I still havent found one for my 51 yet..... Not looking real hard at the moment though. Must be one out there...


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Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: mr.moto] #688104
03/14/17 2:46 pm
03/14/17 2:46 pm
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NYC and York PA
wadeschields Offline

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Is that a wheel weight at the 11 oclock position on the front wheel? Never saw one like that if it is......


http://wadeschields.tumblr.com/

Jack of all trades . Master of fun! wink

Beer is not the Answer.... Its the Question..... The answer is YES

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Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: wadeschields] #688141
03/14/17 8:29 pm
03/14/17 8:29 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 204
Santa Fe, Texas
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bsalloyd Offline

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That is exactly how the guard fits. I looked at my 1953 plunger frame GS and the 1953 A10 Super Flash they both measure the same. You could probably get a guard from any early A7 or A10 plunger frame model. If you have any of the Roy Bacon book for these model take a look at the picture in them. I have one set aside for another Super Flash if you would like some pictures let me know. Lloyd L


1951 ZB GS
1953 BB GS
1953 Super Flash
1954 Vincent BS
1963 RGS

Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: wadeschields] #688150
03/14/17 10:09 pm
03/14/17 10:09 pm
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OZ
Triless Online content
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OZ
Lead wire was sometimes used to balance wheels, then secured to the spokes with tape.

Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: Triless] #688153
03/14/17 10:24 pm
03/14/17 10:24 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,373
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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Originally Posted by Triless
Lead wire was sometimes used to balance wheels, then secured to the spokes with tape.



Still is.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: mr.moto] #688169
03/15/17 12:00 am
03/15/17 12:00 am
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I think the A10 plunger chain guards are different than the Singles. The rigid are different also. Most of the A10's were black with the Goldies, and probably the Super Flash, were chrome.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: mr.moto] #688181
03/15/17 1:39 am
03/15/17 1:39 am
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A7/A10 plunger chainguard on the top, Gold Star in the middle and rigid on the bottom. I have seen some rigids use one that looks like the Gold Star plunger one tho.



[Linked Image]


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: Boomer] #688187
03/15/17 2:55 am
03/15/17 2:55 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 204
Santa Fe, Texas
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bsalloyd Offline

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Boomer, more mystery. I measured the guard on the 53 plunger GS and the 53 Super Flash. Everything measures the same. My GS has the tire pump mounting bracket as shown on your A10 guard. The only difference is the way they are mounted at the bottom. The GS has the small bracket that bolts to the fender then to two holes on the bottom of the guard. The A10 has an extension from the bottom of the guard that mounts with one bolt to the frame. Lloyd L

1951 ZB GS
1953 BB GS
1953 Super Flash
1954 Vincent BS
1963 RGS
1974 Trident
1973 850 Commando


1951 ZB GS
1953 BB GS
1953 Super Flash
1954 Vincent BS
1963 RGS

Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: mr.moto] #688238
03/15/17 4:35 pm
03/15/17 4:35 pm
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Posts: 28
Florida
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Piltdownhoax Offline
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Whats on the front brake plate at the 7 o'clock position?

Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: Piltdownhoax] #688251
03/15/17 5:56 pm
03/15/17 5:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Piltdownhoax
Whats on the front brake plate at the 7 o'clock position?



Looks like the valve stem.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: Boomer] #688294
03/16/17 6:14 am
03/16/17 6:14 am
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 74
Sydney, Australia
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Mebbo Offline
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Bill,

I think that's one of the tyre locks on the rim (should be three on each rim). My A65 has that on back wheel. I assume Piltdownhoax is referring to something that has fascinated me - looks like a factory breathing hole pattern. Not on production 7" plate.

BTW, if you want to sell the rigid chainguard, bags first shot!

Mebbo

Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: Mebbo] #688311
03/16/17 11:53 am
03/16/17 11:53 am
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Florida
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Thats it, it looks like the holes are drilled so close, kind of odd pattern, they were clever however, I wonder what the thinking was.

Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: mr.moto] #688341
03/16/17 5:23 pm
03/16/17 5:23 pm
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IMHO, it's a valve stem with black rubber tubing over it. The two rim locks can be seen at 9 and 3, 180 degrees apart. Both wheels are the same. Interesting that it has the smaller oil tank.


Here's what one of the three bikes built for the '49 Daytona looked like:


[Linked Image]


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: Boomer] #688389
03/17/17 6:46 am
03/17/17 6:46 am
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Posts: 74
Sydney, Australia
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Mebbo Offline
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Bill,
On looking again, I bow to your advice - yep it's a valve stem.
Mebbo

Re: zbracer but who was it for [Re: mr.moto] #688409
03/17/17 12:02 pm
03/17/17 12:02 pm
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,367
NYC and York PA
wadeschields Offline

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thanks for the photos Bill. I have one that is supposed to be for a 54... I'll compare it to the photos next time Im in the barn


http://wadeschields.tumblr.com/

Jack of all trades . Master of fun! wink

Beer is not the Answer.... Its the Question..... The answer is YES

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