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Spark plugs #682648
01/26/17 6:08 am
01/26/17 6:08 am
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2
New Zealand
T160red Offline OP
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T160red  Offline OP
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side gapping spark plugs... yes no or other ???

http://www.instructables.com/id/Save-Gas...4/Before-After/


1975 T160
1974 T150v
1976 T140v
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Re: Spark plugs [Re: T160red] #682649
01/26/17 6:47 am
01/26/17 6:47 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,448
OZ
Triless Offline
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Triless  Offline
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OZ
This is similar to a race tip I picked up years ago, except it was to file the end of the side strap to half way across the centre electrode. It certainly worked no worse !

Re: Spark plugs [Re: T160red] #682653
01/26/17 7:44 am
01/26/17 7:44 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,224
Scotland
kommando Online content
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Scotland
Just buy projected tip variety of your spark plug. So if you use B7ES buy BP7ES for NGK.


Re: Spark plugs [Re: kommando] #682656
01/26/17 8:48 am
01/26/17 8:48 am
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,463
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline
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Originally Posted By kommando
Just buy projected tip variety of your spark plug. So if you use B7ES buy BP7ES for NGK.



I have used extended tip plugs in Triumphs and it seemed to make a slight improvement...
CAUTION,if it's a Triumph and has aftermarket cams and a .060 oversize intake valve, the intake valve may foul the extended plug tip... Ask me how I know that...
US drag racers run equipment at the point of failure to win..They used to or still do cut off most of the ground electrode to gain two HP....They also use extreme energy ignitions systems...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: Spark plugs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #682657
01/26/17 9:04 am
01/26/17 9:04 am
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,397
New Zealand
J
johnm Offline
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johnm  Offline
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J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,397
New Zealand
Yes. Agree.

Projected tip plugs are very good and I have used them in my Norton 500 twin race bike for many years. NGK BP9ES

But you must check for clearance from piston and valves. Gordon Jennings was a fan of projected tip plugs

Re: Spark plugs [Re: T160red] #682732
01/27/17 12:33 am
01/27/17 12:33 am
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,329
Back on the mainland!
JubeePrince Offline

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From the side-gap website:

"the flame created will now be able to spread faster resulting in a more efficient burn before the exhaust valve opens"

I was under the impression that if flame-propagation occurs too quickly, you could end up with detonation issues. Is that correct?

Inquiring minds,

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: Spark plugs [Re: JubeePrince] #682738
01/27/17 2:37 am
01/27/17 2:37 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,290
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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triton thrasher  Offline
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scotland
Originally Posted By JubeePrince
From the side-gap website:

"the flame created will now be able to spread faster resulting in a more efficient burn before the exhaust valve opens"

I was under the impression that if flame-propagation occurs too quickly, you could end up with detonation issues. Is that correct?

Inquiring minds,

Steve


If the flame front really does travel faster, then less igition advance is probably appropriate.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Spark plugs [Re: triton thrasher] #682743
01/27/17 4:02 am
01/27/17 4:02 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,448
OZ
Triless Offline
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Triless  Offline
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OZ
Now, this is getting interesting. Re my earlier post, I understood at the time, that the modification optimised what was available from the ignition system in use.
The thing was to elimate the sharp edges on the earth electrode into the combustion chamber ( I used a points file for this ) but it was important to leave a sharp edge around the periphery of the centre electrode. The reasoning I was given at the time, was that sharp edges required less voltage for the spark to jump.
Now, admittedly, I used this in petrol engines.
In another life in my high comp BSA ZB 33, on dope, I used a Champion ( forget type ) retracted gap plug !

Re: Spark plugs [Re: Triless] #682872
01/28/17 4:52 am
01/28/17 4:52 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,290
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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scotland
Originally Posted By Triless
Now, this is getting interesting. Re my earlier post, I understood at the time, that the modification optimised what was available from the ignition system in use.
The thing was to elimate the sharp edges on the earth electrode into the combustion chamber ( I used a points file for this ) but it was important to leave a sharp edge around the periphery of the centre electrode. The reasoning I was given at the time, was that sharp edges required less voltage for the spark to jump.
Now, admittedly, I used this in petrol engines.
In another life in my high comp BSA ZB 33, on dope, I used a Champion ( forget type ) retracted gap plug !


If (if!) the centre electrode needs a sharp edge, then so does the earth electrode.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Spark plugs [Re: triton thrasher] #682877
01/28/17 5:36 am
01/28/17 5:36 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,448
OZ
Triless Offline
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Triless  Offline
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OZ
Yes, I kept that on the inside of the earth electrode, but rounded off the combustion area edges .

Re: Spark plugs [Re: T160red] #682956
01/28/17 9:14 pm
01/28/17 9:14 pm
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 769
Brisbane, Australia
BrizzoBrit Offline

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Brisbane, Australia
Would indexing the plugs go a long way to achieve the same end or something similar?

I definitely see signs of shrouding on the center insulator under the ground strap. Indexing would at least put you (the spark?) in the best possible place with unmodified straps. I use BP7ES in my A65 with no issues. I haven't gone to the trouble of indexing. For my riding, I'm sure it isn't going to make a huge difference.

An interesting 'advertisement' if you care to take a look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZy0Op0JvC0

Cheers
ray


BSA 1969 A65F
BSA 1966 A65H
Triumph 1968 T120
Kawasaki A1R
& too many projects!
Re: Spark plugs [Re: T160red] #683874
02/06/17 12:10 am
02/06/17 12:10 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,933
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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Gnashville
So, what happened to "Hot U", "Splitfire" and the rest of the "revolutionary" new plug technology? I've even seen some Bosch plugs with four outer electrodes. Ad hype?
I do have some B7EVX, fine wire, plugs installed at the moment. They work well, but only time will tell if they're any better or worse than N4s. Time will also tell if I'll be able to buy them again when I need a new set.
According to theory conduction happens more easily from hot electrode to cooler. If they paid attention to theory spark plug engines would all have reverted to positive earth. They have not.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
Re: Spark plugs [Re: DavidP] #683887
02/06/17 3:25 am
02/06/17 3:25 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,290
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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scotland
Originally Posted By DavidP
So, what happened to "Hot U", "Splitfire" and the rest of the "revolutionary" new plug technology? I've even seen some Bosch plugs with four outer electrodes. Ad hype?


Yes, sales talk.

Quote:

According to theory conduction happens more easily from hot electrode to cooler. If they paid attention to theory spark plug engines would all have reverted to positive earth. They have not.


On a twin cylinder wasted spark ignition (Boyer, Pazon, etc.) with a two-pole coil, or a twin cylinder magneto, the two plugs have opposite polarity.

On non-wasted spark systems, such as 6CA points on Triumphs, the designer can choose positive or negative earth high tension polarity, on a bike with positive or negative earth low tension circuit.

Last edited by triton thrasher; 02/07/17 8:36 am.

Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Spark plugs [Re: NickL] #684034
02/07/17 7:23 am
02/07/17 7:23 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,290
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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scotland
Originally Posted By NickL
I'm smiling now........ someones' got to start with the 'plazma effect' next.


Those fools in the International Atomic Energy Agency banned my patented air ionising strontium-90 coated plugs!

The fools!


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Spark plugs [Re: triton thrasher] #684036
02/07/17 8:01 am
02/07/17 8:01 am
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,550
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
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L.A.B.  Online Content
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,550
Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted By triton thrasher
On a twin cylinder wasted spark ignition (Boyer, Pazon, etc.), .................the two plugs have opposite polarity.



Only if the system has a dual/double-ended coil.

Re: Spark plugs [Re: L.A.B.] #684037
02/07/17 8:34 am
02/07/17 8:34 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,290
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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Originally Posted By L.A.B.
Originally Posted By triton thrasher
On a twin cylinder wasted spark ignition (Boyer, Pazon, etc.), .................the two plugs have opposite polarity.



Only if the system has a dual/double-ended coil.


Yes.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Spark plugs [Re: triton thrasher] #684043
02/07/17 9:52 am
02/07/17 9:52 am
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,463
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline
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Hillbilly bike  Offline
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Originally Posted By triton thrasher
Originally Posted By DavidP
So, what happened to "Hot U", "Splitfire" and the rest of the "revolutionary" new plug technology? I've even seen some Bosch plugs with four outer electrodes. Ad hype?


Yes, sales talk.

Quote:

According to theory conduction happens more easily from hot electrode to cooler. If they paid attention to theory spark plug engines would all have reverted to positive earth. They have not.


On a twin cylinder wasted spark ignition (Boyer, Pazon, etc.) with a two-pole coil, or a twin cylinder magneto, the two plugs have opposite polarity.

On non-wasted spark systems, such as 6CA points on Triumphs, the designer can choose positive or negative earth high tension polarity, on a bike with positive or negative earth low tension circuit.


Does it make any real world difference?


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: Spark plugs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #684048
02/07/17 10:32 am
02/07/17 10:32 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,290
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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scotland
Originally Posted By Hillbilly bike


Does it make any real world difference?


The engines run ok either way.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Spark plugs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #684053
02/07/17 11:36 am
02/07/17 11:36 am
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,550
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
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L.A.B.  Online Content
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Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted By Hillbilly bike
Does it make any real world difference?



http://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/plugpolarity.html

https://www.ngk.com/glossary/8/spark-plug/W

Re: Spark plugs [Re: L.A.B.] #684058
02/07/17 12:20 pm
02/07/17 12:20 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,463
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline
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Originally Posted By L.A.B.
Originally Posted By Hillbilly bike
Does it make any real world difference?



http://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/plugpolarity.html

https://www.ngk.com/glossary/8/spark-plug/W


If true,I'm not talking about reversed coil polarity from a wiring error, why aren't all the users of waste spark ignitions not having problem?...Or are they having problems and don't know it...?


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: Spark plugs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #684064
02/07/17 12:40 pm
02/07/17 12:40 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,550
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
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L.A.B.  Online Content
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Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted By Hillbilly bike
Originally Posted By L.A.B.
Originally Posted By Hillbilly bike
Does it make any real world difference?



http://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/plugpolarity.html

https://www.ngk.com/glossary/8/spark-plug/W


If true,I'm not talking about reversed coil polarity from a wiring error, why aren't all the users of waste spark ignitions not having problem?...Or are they having problems and don't know it...?


If plugs are replaced at the normal service interval then there shouldn't be a problem as it isn't something that's going to happen overnight.
As I mentioned previously if the system has two separate coils connected (correctly) in series then it doesn't apply.

Re: Spark plugs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #684108
02/07/17 7:06 pm
02/07/17 7:06 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,735
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline

fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,735
ohio, usa
Originally Posted By Hillbilly bike

If true, I'm not talking about reversed coil polarity from a wiring error, why aren't all the users of waste spark ignitions not having problem?...Or are they having problems and don't know it...?


this is a dual plug head with a Boyer wasted-spark system, so the series secondary current goes lefty-righty, lefty-righty before it hits ground:



it works okay:



but i throw away plugs like kleenex. not that i need to, it's just what i do.



live every day.
die once.
Re: Spark plugs [Re: NickL] #684154
02/08/17 4:21 am
02/08/17 4:21 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,290
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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scotland
Originally Posted By NickL
As i said the 'electron flow' discussion then 'heated anode/cathodes' disposition of metal etc.
'Indexed' spark plugs, BUT i still haven't seen the 'Plasma effect" mentioned. (other than TT's highly experimental Plutonium coated plugs)
.


Plutonium, being an alpha emitter, is useless on spark plugs, because any coating of carbon completely shields the emissions and stops the ionising of the air.

Firestone should have realised that, when they marketed radioactive plugs containing polonium-210.

https://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/consumer%20products/sparkplugs.htm




What do you want us to say about plasma ignition systems?

Last edited by triton thrasher; 02/08/17 4:30 am.

Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Spark plugs [Re: NickL] #684155
02/08/17 4:24 am
02/08/17 4:24 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,290
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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scotland
Originally Posted By NickL
Reversing the spark polarity, indexing the plugs etc does 4/5 x The square root of bugger all, in terms of improvement to spark energy or engine running. What's being used to fire the plug in as much as the coil, ignition system etc, that's what makes the difference.


And millions of new cars and bikes have been sold with half of their plugs sparking in "the wrong direction." And they run perfectly, for a bloody long time.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Spark plugs [Re: triton thrasher] #684157
02/08/17 4:40 am
02/08/17 4:40 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,448
OZ
Triless Offline
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Triless  Offline
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OZ
Yes! Right on, TT ! I read somewhere once, regarding Japanese fours, it was suggested that, if concerned, swap plugs at service intervals........to even electrode wear !!

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