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1970 Firebird Scrambler #489836
05/12/13 12:55 am
05/12/13 12:55 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 14
Phoenix, Az
C
coop85 Offline OP
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Posts: 14
Phoenix, Az

Very first post and very new owner of a 70' firebird scrambler. Can someone tell me a little about these bikes. I just bought one from an old guy in my neighborhood for $200. It's all original, everything is in working order, all original parts and no damage to the bike anywhere. I'll post a picture of it tomorrow when I get the carbs and tank back on it.

I literally have no clue the history or if this was a decent BSA model.

Thanks!


1970 Firebird Scramber
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Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489838
05/12/13 1:08 am
05/12/13 1:08 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 14
Phoenix, Az
C
coop85 Offline OP
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coop85  Offline OP
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Posts: 14
Phoenix, Az
Just read something about them, mine has a chrome tank with low pipes. Besides those tidbits, I'm still clueless.


1970 Firebird Scramber
Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489843
05/12/13 1:28 am
05/12/13 1:28 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,405
SLO County, CA
D.Bachtel Offline
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D.Bachtel  Offline
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Posts: 2,405
SLO County, CA
1970 has a one year tank, chrome with no badges...

Google images should help. Blue is it?


Don in Nipomo


1956 Zundapp KS601EL
1960 Greeves Scottish/Hawkstone Velorex 560
1963 BSA Gold Star Spitfire
1964 Triumph T20SM
1965 BSA C15T
1966 BSA VE
1968 Bonham Tote Gote
1969 BSA VS
1970 BSA A65L (with a "Y")
1972 Husqvarna 450 WR
1986 Yamaha TT 225
1987 BMW K75C
Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489852
05/12/13 4:03 am
05/12/13 4:03 am
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,173
Sydney, Oz
S
Shane in Oz Online content
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Shane in Oz  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,173
Sydney, Oz
Originally Posted By: coop85
Just read something about them, mine has a chrome tank with low pipes. Besides those tidbits, I'm still clueless.


The Canadian model had the blue / chrome tank with low pipes.
The US East coast model had the blue / chrome tank with high pipes on the left.
The rest of us got the A65 "arrowhead" tank in red with chromed knee-grips and high pipes, very similar to the 1969 .

That was amazingly good buy. A rolling basket case was recently on eBay in Texas for $1000

Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489853
05/12/13 4:27 am
05/12/13 4:27 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,962
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Lannis  Offline

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Posts: 12,962
Central Virginia
Yep, $200 for a complete bike is the deal of the century. The tapered front fender alone is worth that.

They're great bikes, not many of them around. But more of them than the average eBay seller claims. For years the standard rap was:

"Only 300 of these were made."

Then it became

"Only 200 of these were made." as urban legends expanded.

Actually several thousand of them were made, but you will seldom see one out on the road!

Good luck with it!

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489865
05/12/13 8:33 am
05/12/13 8:33 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 14
Phoenix, Az
C
coop85 Offline OP
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coop85  Offline OP
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Posts: 14
Phoenix, Az
Here it is in all its glory. I have the plastic panels off while I'm working on it, the carbs aren't attached because I'm in the process of cleaning them. Im pretty sure the original color was orange but it couldve been red. The bike hasn't [/b]been started in 8 years and hasn't had tags since 87. I offered the guy $1000 for it but he didn't care about price, just didn't want to store it anymore.

Anyone have suggestions of where to go from here.

[img]http://
[/img] [b]

Last edited by coop85; 05/12/13 8:36 am.

1970 Firebird Scramber
Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489883
05/12/13 10:51 am
05/12/13 10:51 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,859
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
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Posts: 3,859
Sydney Australia
Look up your nearest BSA or British bike club and join up. This list is great but no substitute for enthusiasts that will give you hands on help or lend you tools.
Go to the sponsors section of this site & buy the BSA DVD.
The parts book & BSA service information you need will be in there.
Go to Bushmans carby pages and downlaod the Concentric bit in particular the graph that shows the over lap of the various jets.
Go to Stainless bits download the BSA / Triumph fastener list and print your self a copy so you will now what nuts & bolts went where.
Get your self a Scorpion sealed battery ( worth twice the price )

Drain all of the fluids, particularly the forks and replace then according to the instructions on the DVD.
Clean & adjust the carbs as per Bushmans instructions.
Put the front wheel into a wall slip the bike into top gear pull in the clutch and try to kick the engine over ( without plugs ).
If you can then the clutch plates have rusted solid & you will have to strip & clean the plates.
If the clutch slips then try to kick the bike over again without the clutch pulled in.
If you can then the clutch plates are oiled up and will need to be cleaned .
If you do not have a good timing light or access to one, buy one now.
Before you eve think of trying to start the bike get a can of WD 40 or electrical contact cleaner & some fine steel wool ( not a soapy brillo pad ).
Go through the wiring and one at a time pull each plug apart.
Use needle nose pliers to grab the terminals don't just yank on the wires.
Clean the both the bullet & the connector with the contact cleaner & steel wool.
If the insulation has pulled back from the terminal leaving some exposed wire cover it with some heat shrink tubing ( 2 pieces ). If the terminal pulled off then replace it ( ask us for further instructions on this ).
Run some 1000 wet & dry lubed with the contact cleaner between the ignition points.
From a push bike shop get some cable lube ( the stuff they use on gear change cables & lube all of your cables male sure they are free.
Now check the brakes work and lube them according to the DVD
Get a 1/2 dozen spark plugs, some nice new petrol, tickle each carb till it squirts some petrol out the side , swing on the kick start and enjoy

Bike Beesa
Trevor


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489887
05/12/13 11:08 am
05/12/13 11:08 am
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,173
Sydney, Oz
S
Shane in Oz Online content
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Shane in Oz  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,173
Sydney, Oz
Originally Posted By: coop85
Here it is in all its glory. I have the plastic panels off while I'm working on it, the carbs aren't attached because I'm in the process of cleaning them. Im pretty sure the original color was orange but it couldve been red. The bike hasn't been started in 8 years and hasn't had tags since 87. I offered the guy $1000 for it but he didn't care about price, just didn't want to store it anymore.


That looks like a nice project. It should tidy up well.

That's the 1970-only tank, but it should be a dark blue. Apparently the same tank was used on one of the 250cc singles around the same time (Barracuda? Fleetstar?), but painted differently.
The side covers were steel on the 1970 Firebirds. The left was cut down to half height for the high level exhaust system.

Quote:

Anyone have suggestions of where to go from here.

First, buy a lottery ticket smile

Get hold of the proper BSA factory parts and workshop manuals. These are both available on Kim's BSA DVD (advertised at the top of the BSA board) along with most other post-War manuals and service sheets.

I've been told that A50s and A65s which have been standing for years can have the oil and sludge in the sludge trap (down the middle of crankshaft crank throws) harden up and it's always a good idea to strip the motor and clean it out. I can't vouch for that.

Throw the tyres away. They're going to be hard, sitting flat will have damaged the carcasse and the side walls have most likely cracked. Dunlop K70s are still available if you want the original look. K81s are better tyres, and Avon Road Riders come highly recommended.

The carb slides and needle jets have probably worn. It's usually worth replacing them. AMAL has a rebuild kit for the Mk I Concentrics, with the option of an upgraded float. They also have anodised slides. They're both a worthwhile upgrade.

The old chain is almost certainly scrap. Replace it with a good quality modern 530 chain (Regina, etc).
If you stripping the motor down, consider replacing the gearbox sprocket with a 20T sprocket. The FIrebird is geared a lot lower - great acceleration, but revs too high at highway speeds.

After that, it depends on how much you're willing to spend.
Electronic ignition is a good upgrade. Boyer Bransden has been around for ages. The Tri-Spark Classic Twin is more modern, works better and is easier to install, but more expensive. Both need 6V coils.

That's still going to bring you in under what you offered the guy originally. and it will be a much nicer and safer machine.

The exhaust system on it looks usable, or you could replace it with a reproduction high level system. That won't make it go any better, though wink

Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: Shane in Oz] #489904
05/12/13 1:39 pm
05/12/13 1:39 pm
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 11
Alabama, USA
O
Orville Offline
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Orville  Offline
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O

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 11
Alabama, USA
That is a great find. First establish your goal for the bike. This would be a great one for a full restoration, but that would be pretty expensive, worth it but expensive. You have a lot going for you on this one, and then again some items that are not correct as well. If it were my bike, and I was going to totally restore it I would expect to budget $10,000.00 for the project, realizing that the bike may not be worth but about $8,000.00 when finished. But to restore these babies is not about making money but a labor of love.

Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489915
05/12/13 3:37 pm
05/12/13 3:37 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,342
Medford, Oregon
Gary E Offline
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Gary E  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,342
Medford, Oregon
Great deal on the machine, and a nice one to start with.

My understanding is that the limited numbers of 300, 250, 200 Firebirds made pertained to the '68 model year. Of which of course 4 times that many were built, based on my research of the original factory productions records in the UK.

Unless it got changed by a previous owner, the '69 Firebird would originally have the 20 tooth final drive sprocket. One less item to have to deal with unless the sprocket is showing hook wear.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: Orville] #489916
05/12/13 3:50 pm
05/12/13 3:50 pm
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,951
Ohio
R
Rickman Offline
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Rickman  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,951
Ohio
Something I will mention?

I'm putting a '69 FireBird together myself, [ arrowhead tank ] and even though I found a new-take-off-hanging-on-the-wall set of left side mid-level pipes, I have yet to find the sort of "L" shaped muffler support bracket, and I've been looking for YEARS!

Over those years, I've seen three of the OIF '71-'72 FireBird "L" shaped muffler support brackets...

The two types ARE different, and different looking.

Nice ol' bike you've been lucky to find.
Depending upon where you live, hope to see you at the OVBSAOC spring meet, June 1-2, with, or without the bike.

I too, am of the oppinion since you know the bike sat for many years, for your safety first, the engines longevity second, the engine should be disassembled, to have the sludge trap cleaned out and checked.

I once had three engines in a row, where, when I had the sludge traps checked, all three had so much sludge in them, the left rod journal hole was almost closed up.
Once they close up, no oil gets through, and depending on how hard the engine is running, it may just stop, or it may go bang.....
There was a thread somewhere, where fellows showed pics of engines gone BANG!
NONE of it pretty...

Keep us all posted on how you get along with this project?
Nice to see "new blood" helping to keep these ol' bikes running!
Brett

Last edited by Rickman; 05/12/13 3:50 pm.
Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489924
05/12/13 4:57 pm
05/12/13 4:57 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 14
Phoenix, Az
C
coop85 Offline OP
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coop85  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 14
Phoenix, Az
Thank you all for this invaluable information to get me started. Reading all your posts makes me realize I stumbled upon a pretty unique bike. This motivates me to try and do it right. I'm a full time pre-med student so once I get the basics straightened away, this might be a 15 year project. (Mainly because ill be poor for for that amount of time) I am beyond excited about this project, it's actually my first motorcycle I've ever owned.

I will post updates as they come in. Hopefully in the next week or so I'll be able drain all fluids, clean the engine and get it running.

Once again, thanks for all the great information.


1970 Firebird Scramber
Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489940
05/12/13 7:14 pm
05/12/13 7:14 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,962
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Life member
Lannis  Offline

Life member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,962
Central Virginia
The sludge trap is always a hard, hard call for me. It MIGHT be that the trap is OK, and that the list of things that BSAWM20 will be all it needs, and you can ride it and see how you like it, and THEN put some real money into the motor.

But, if the trap IS full and the left rod doesn't get any oil, it'll completely blow the motor down to the cases, and then it's really expensive.

Whereas a teardown to the crank with the motor intact isn't so hard as that, but it's not a weekend job either.

Sounds like you've got it under control, though. Salut!

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #489972
05/13/13 12:20 am
05/13/13 12:20 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,206
Vermont
Jon W. Whitley Online content

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,206
Vermont
Welcome. beerchug


I've got a matching numbers 1970 A65F and I paid $400 for it back in 2008. I went to buy just the engine for my 1971 projetc and for an agreed $250 and then the guy mentions he has a BSA frame upstairs. He really only mentioned it as I was leaving and for some other reason but not to ask if I wanted it!

Intrigued of course, I asked to see it and after noticing that the numbers matched the engine, asked him if he would sell that too and he said, well I guess so, if you want it ? How about $150 for it, he says? I said, okay and $400 dollars and a few minutes later I walked out with the matching engine and frame!

Not the deal that you got of course but kinda close and still fairly cheap in the big scheme of things !


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #549756
06/23/14 11:29 am
06/23/14 11:29 am
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,476
NYC and York PA
wadeschields Offline

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Posts: 6,476
NYC and York PA
How is this bike coming along? Did you get it fired up or rebuild the motor?


http://wadeschields.tumblr.com/

Jack of all trades . Master of fun! wink

Beer is not the Answer.... Its the Question..... The answer is YES

[Linked Image]
Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: coop85] #683604
02/03/17 8:57 pm
02/03/17 8:57 pm
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 5
Snohomish WA
M
mrvideo Offline
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M

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 5
Snohomish WA
Hello,
I saw that you bought a 1970 Firebird, do you still have bike. I just bought a 1970FB and was wondering if you could take some pictures of where parts attach to frame? Thanks in advance. Jim Sawyer

Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: mrvideo] #683618
02/03/17 11:14 pm
02/03/17 11:14 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,261
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Originally Posted By mrvideo
Hello,
I saw that you bought a 1970 Firebird, do you still have bike. I just bought a 1970FB and was wondering if you could take some pictures of where parts attach to frame? Thanks in advance. Jim Sawyer


Which parts?

Re: 1970 Firebird Scrambler [Re: leon bee] #683979
02/06/17 7:38 pm
02/06/17 7:38 pm
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 5
Snohomish WA
M
mrvideo Offline
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 5
Snohomish WA
Hello, any help would be appreciated to the following questions on my 1970 Firebird scrambler (suppose to be a Canadian model, but I see clues to the contrary)

+ where does the rectifier mount on frame
+ Where does the condenser attach to frame
+ single horn location on frame
There just does not seem like there are many close up pictures to guide my quest for a complete motorcycle.


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