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Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #674772
11/17/16 3:38 pm
11/17/16 3:38 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,499
Scotland
kommando Offline
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68 condenser is under the points cover with 4CA points plate, 69/70 with the introduction of the 6CA points plate the condenser moved to under the front of the battery tray.

This pic has the condenser in it, behind red wire and its held on by the 1/4" bolt, the pic is of the underside of the battery tray from the toolbox cover side.


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Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #674781
11/17/16 4:45 pm
11/17/16 4:45 pm
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 167
County Durham
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ducati2242 Offline
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mines a 68 and the condenser was exactly where you've shown it .Mine is also a US import to the UK if that makes a difference .

Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #674782
11/17/16 4:54 pm
11/17/16 4:54 pm
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Posts: 167
County Durham
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ducati2242 Offline
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Originally Posted By Nick B
The light before restoration looks like the later 70's steel one, did the post restoration one fit the same holes? does that long metal bracket fit where my mystery bracket fits?

Did you find any noticeable benefit from the Wassell over the points set up?

I wasn't aware that the condenser might be anywhere other than under the points cover.

Certainly some similarities between our machines in terms of the original look of yours.


Yes thats exactly where the post 70 number plate fits if you look closely at my ,almost , finished picture you will see where i've blanked them with a couple of ss bolts . the lower hole in your mudguard is the correct one for the correct light . I fitted this one as I already had one the squarer one is , I believe , the correct one for 68 .

I never got it started with the points yet it fired straight up with the wassel .

There's a small bracket that hangs down below the oil tank which is where mine was bolted .

Last edited by ducati2242; 11/17/16 4:56 pm.
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: ducati2242] #674783
11/17/16 5:04 pm
11/17/16 5:04 pm
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
Utah
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Nick B Offline OP
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Excellent information, I will certainly carry out a condenser search before jumping to any conclusions and assuming it's missing.

Also on the back light, I was planning of using a couple of stainless bolts likewise to cover those holes, unless in the meantime I find the mysterious bracket has some apparent use. Good to know the other type of light will fit. I prefer the look of the earlier light so will likely go with one of those even if not year correct. It's strange the fenders had the holes for both types of light.

I will hopefully have the bike in my garage by tomorrow evening, I'm just off to get new tires on my motorcycle trailer, the "old" ones have apparently decided to crack all around the sidewalls despite being only 2 years old, then I'm ready to go.


"Old Enough To Know Better, Still Too Young to Care"

1968 BSA Victor Special
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1976 Suzuki GT500
1977 Kawasaki KZ650 B1
1978 Kawasaki KZ1000A2
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #674887
11/18/16 9:01 pm
11/18/16 9:01 pm
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
Utah
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Nick B Offline OP
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Well I got her home today and thanks to all your help I was able to immediately work a few things out that had me confused when I viewed the bike because I didn't know exactly what I was looking at.

Firstly the condenser is mounted up on the battery box area, not in the points cover, now I know what I'm looking at, it is only the points and fasteners I'm missing. I wonder if that remote mounting was a US thing for higher temperatures or similar, I've seen nothing like it in any parts books.

The bike had no compression when I viewed it, I was hoping it was a stuck valve or de-compressor. I looked closer while loading it on to the trailer and the cable had come adrift from the de-compressor so I was banking on a stuck valve or worse. When I got home I pulled the tank off for a better look, I just touched the de-compressor lever with the tip of a screwdriver and it shot forward with a click, then when I tried the kick start I had some major compression, partly because I'd sprayed fogging oil into the cylinder to lube it and make sure it wasn't going to corrode in there if it took a while to get it running with winter here. The compression eased a little as the oil got dispersed but it has a real crisp feel as you try to go over TDC, certainly enough for it to run well IMO.

So it seems like with some points, I may be able to get it running, the wiring is horrible, but I could wire straight from a battery to the points and coil to see how it runs. The oil in the tank and G'box look like they came straight from the can, so with that and a few other things I'm wondering if someone has already redone the engine, that or if the miles on the speedo are correct it's only done 1700 miles - we'll see, but cautiously optimistic so far.

Also I found the frame number today, I don't know why I couldn't see it last time I looked, it matches the engine number, which is nice.

I have a number from the parts book of 19-986 for the wiring harness, but believe it might also be a 19-1178 and a Lucas number of 54957239. Does anyone know an updated number, I'm not finding much, and I'm seeing a lot of other Lucas numbers for looms advertised that purport to be for a 68 Victor. Thinking ahead to possible having turn signals, is there a later loom which would fit every thing else but have the wiring for turn signals? Is it worth buying a harness versus making one? either way I'd like to get something good an solid on there so I'm not chasing endless gremlins.


Last edited by Nick B; 11/18/16 9:15 pm.

"Old Enough To Know Better, Still Too Young to Care"

1968 BSA Victor Special
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1976 Suzuki GT500
1977 Kawasaki KZ650 B1
1978 Kawasaki KZ1000A2
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #674908
11/19/16 4:33 am
11/19/16 4:33 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,499
Scotland
kommando Offline
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Its solely down to the change on the points plate from 4CA to 6CA, this was really for the twins, the cam profile changed to stop a bounce giving a stray spark and both sets of points were made moveable to make timing adjustment easier on twins, this change reduced the space on the plate for condensers so they were moved. This got carried over to the singles so only one plate was needed but with only one set of points and the condenser moved even though there was space on the plate.

I use the 1970 harness on my 2 69's and that has wires in ready for indicators and for front brake switch, as you have the remote condenser it should fit but check the headlamp/ignition wiring for 68 to 69 changes

Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: kommando] #674928
11/19/16 2:25 pm
11/19/16 2:25 pm
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Utah
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Nick B Offline OP
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Looking at the 69 parts manual, I see the remote condenser, so it was looking at my 68 parts book that was confusing me. The complication with using a later harness seems to be that you start getting some different switches etc. A 69 harness based on the parts book looks like it might suit mine better because I have the remote condenser and also the capacitor so the battery can be removed, both of which are shown on the 69 model, not in the the 68 parts book. The 69 has a different headlight switch and dip switch though from what I can see. However the BSA part number is the same for both years, the Lucas part number is different. If modifications are required, inside the head light would be a good place to do it, out of sight.

Last edited by Nick B; 11/19/16 2:37 pm.

"Old Enough To Know Better, Still Too Young to Care"

1968 BSA Victor Special
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1976 Suzuki GT500
1977 Kawasaki KZ650 B1
1978 Kawasaki KZ1000A2
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #674948
11/19/16 6:49 pm
11/19/16 6:49 pm
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 167
County Durham
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ducati2242 Offline
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Mine didn't have a wiring harness at all . It did have the remote condenser . I just bought a, new copy, 1968 Lucas b44 wiring harness off eBay and it worked perfect . It took me a while to figure it out but everything works so it must be ok . I dont have , or want , indicators though . I think it is easy to overthink and not just work with what you have .

Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: ducati2242] #674982
11/20/16 12:58 am
11/20/16 12:58 am
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
Utah
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Nick B Offline OP
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Utah
I understand some of the new copy harnesses are universal across the years so therefore have a bit of every thing you need. I was actually going off the idea of turn signals before your post. What I would like is the handlebar switch I saw today that includes a horn button, hi and lo beam and a kill switch, it should be easy to wire into the existing harness and would add a level of safety. The chances of me riding the Victor in the dark or on very busy roads is not going to be that often, if ever. I've seen a few folks riding old Harley's etc. and when they do hand signals they may be clearer than most turn signals are to the average myopic car driver.

Having no harness has to make fitting a new one trickier than if you have the remains of an old on in place.

Last edited by Nick B; 11/20/16 1:00 am.

"Old Enough To Know Better, Still Too Young to Care"

1968 BSA Victor Special
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1976 Suzuki GT500
1977 Kawasaki KZ650 B1
1978 Kawasaki KZ1000A2
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #676067
11/30/16 6:35 pm
11/30/16 6:35 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,610
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Online content
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I've built 4 b44's. three with points and oe with a Boyer. the Boyer bike was the only one I would call easy starting.

Reading what Mike said about big guys on victors reminded me of the time Lannis ended up on Ben's b44. Looked like something you'd see in a circus.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

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Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Richrd] #676075
11/30/16 7:15 pm
11/30/16 7:15 pm
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Posts: 12,936
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Originally Posted By Richrd
I've built 4 b44's. three with points and oe with a Boyer. the Boyer bike was the only one I would call easy starting.

Reading what Mike said about big guys on victors reminded me of the time Lannis ended up on Ben's b44. Looked like something you'd see in a circus.


Oi! I would say something about a circus when you're riding the Duc-whore-ti at TSMR. Except they don't allow the "monkey humping a football" act there any more .... laughing

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Richrd] #676179
12/01/16 3:57 pm
12/01/16 3:57 pm
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
Utah
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Nick B Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Richrd
I've built 4 b44's. three with points and oe with a Boyer. the Boyer bike was the only one I would call easy starting.

Reading what Mike said about big guys on victors reminded me of the time Lannis ended up on Ben's b44. Looked like something you'd see in a circus.


My experience on older vehicles in general has been that the biggest difference in starting comes from having a good coil and fat spark, many existing set ups were not great even when new. On my CJ5 Jeep I got the coil and larger diameter distributor cap from the same year Ford, which is a higher voltage coil and then adjusted my plugs accordingly to the larger gap spec'd on the Ford and the difference was considerable. Points can set up to work well, my Triumph Tiger is a wonderful starter, but do need adjustment etc. I didn't find that an issue back in the day, but now with several bikes and adult responsibilities, I don't have the time to regularly check and adjust timing and points, so EI is appealing. For me one of the biggest advantages of the EI conversion is getting a better advance curve than even a perfect working order AAU/points set up can give.

I don't find looking like something from the circus is too much of a problem, it's shifting gears with those clown shoes that makes it tricky.

Last edited by Nick B; 12/01/16 3:58 pm.

"Old Enough To Know Better, Still Too Young to Care"

1968 BSA Victor Special
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1976 Suzuki GT500
1977 Kawasaki KZ650 B1
1978 Kawasaki KZ1000A2
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #676264
12/02/16 12:36 pm
12/02/16 12:36 pm
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,605
Nor Cal
Roadwarrior Offline

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I have a good aau and points plate if you are interested. Send PM.




Who are the brain police?



Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Roadwarrior] #676446
12/04/16 1:58 am
12/04/16 1:58 am
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Utah
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Nick B Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Roadwarrior
I have a good aau and points plate if you are interested. Send PM.


I found I have the points plate, it was just missing the points. What was throwing me off was looking at the setup with the condenser in the points cover which is shown for a 68, whereas my condenser was under the battery tray. I haven't checked the AAU yet, I got a little distracted with other stuff, but decided before I get it started I'd better get a working front brake organized because if it's running the urge to ride it will be too much to resist. So I've had the front wheel out and put on a new tire and also found a tail light all of which has it looking better. Hopefully next week I'll get the AAU checked out and the points mounted and timing set. Then I just need to work out how to rig up some temporary wiring to get power to the coil and points so I can start it. If my AAU turns out to be no good I'll let you know, thanks for the offer.


"Old Enough To Know Better, Still Too Young to Care"

1968 BSA Victor Special
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1976 Suzuki GT500
1977 Kawasaki KZ650 B1
1978 Kawasaki KZ1000A2
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #676988
12/08/16 11:39 pm
12/08/16 11:39 pm
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Posts: 1,605
Nor Cal
Roadwarrior Offline

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My 68 had the condenser under the battery tray. I switched to electronic, and the starting was a piece of cake after that.

Last edited by Roadwarrior; 12/08/16 11:41 pm.



Who are the brain police?



Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Roadwarrior] #718660
12/13/17 6:58 pm
12/13/17 6:58 pm
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
Utah
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Nick B Offline OP
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Utah
Thanks to everyone for their help so far - I won't bother to list my excuses for making barely any progress on my Victor restoration between my last post and now, but with winter here again and some things behind me, I'm looking to move forward.

My question concerns the wiring harness. I bought a new wiring harness because the wiring was was a mess. When I came to actually fit the harness, I found the existing set up was much worse than I thought. The only part of the original harness was the piece that goes down to the rear brake light switch, so about 10" of original, that's all. This made me glad I bought a complete harness instead of trying to make my own, because I'd have had no idea what was supposed to be connected to what as the existing wiring was nearly all one color, with those blue Scotchlock connectors and parts of it disconnected. I can see where 90% of my harness hooks up, but am confused by it's routing along the frame. Does anyone have any pictures or anything that could help me route it correctly, I don't want it to get pinched or damaged or find I need to remove part of it when I start putting it back together and find something is in the way. I also seem to have an overly long section at the front, where it goes to the headlight and rectifier etc. which is confusing me, there doesn't seem a need for all that wire, which makes me think I'm missing something.


"Old Enough To Know Better, Still Too Young to Care"

1968 BSA Victor Special
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1976 Suzuki GT500
1977 Kawasaki KZ650 B1
1978 Kawasaki KZ1000A2
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #718828
12/15/17 12:07 pm
12/15/17 12:07 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 888
Annapolis, MD
Dennis B, R.I.P. Offline
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Hi Nick
I had a good picture of an original (under the seat) set up, but its stuck in a laptop that won't turn on.
but I can tell you the harness goes along the left frame rail under the seat
this would be from the key switch white wires back
along the main frame rail it is just slung underneath
in the front, the main harness goes in the headlamp and the zener and ground wires come back out
I hope that makes sense. this is why it looks to long
I'll try to dig out that foto
OK got it
this is a scan of a print of the foto on plain paper
so not the best quality
but you can see the original possition of the clips
and the mounting of the other bits
[Linked Image]
HTH
Cheers
Dennis B


Member # 182
'73 750 Commando
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'71 Triumph Blazer
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Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #719323
12/19/17 1:01 am
12/19/17 1:01 am
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
Utah
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Nick B Offline OP
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Utah
Thanks for the picture, how does it run to the front under the tank, along the top tube of the frame?


"Old Enough To Know Better, Still Too Young to Care"

1968 BSA Victor Special
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1976 Suzuki GT500
1977 Kawasaki KZ650 B1
1978 Kawasaki KZ1000A2
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #719361
12/19/17 10:58 am
12/19/17 10:58 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 888
Annapolis, MD
Dennis B, R.I.P. Offline
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from about the coil it goes along the left side and keep it above the tank anti roll rubber
(the round one)
HTH
Cheers
Dennis B


Member # 182
'73 750 Commando
'72 Combat Commando
'71 Triumph Blazer
'69 Victors
'68 Starfire
'51 Royal Enfield 250 'S'

Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Dennis B, R.I.P.] #719423
12/19/17 9:41 pm
12/19/17 9:41 pm
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
Utah
N
Nick B Offline OP
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Utah
Thanks, I'll have another got at it, I'm still not sure why I have so much spare wire at the front of the motorcycle.


"Old Enough To Know Better, Still Too Young to Care"

1968 BSA Victor Special
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1976 Suzuki GT500
1977 Kawasaki KZ650 B1
1978 Kawasaki KZ1000A2
Re: New owner of a 68 Victor Special with Questions [Re: Nick B] #719532
12/20/17 9:58 pm
12/20/17 9:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 888
Annapolis, MD
Dennis B, R.I.P. Offline
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Annapolis, MD
the oval in this denotes the grommet possition, quite a bit of wire gets stuffed into that little 5 1/2" bucket
[Linked Image]
Cheers
Dennis B


Member # 182
'73 750 Commando
'72 Combat Commando
'71 Triumph Blazer
'69 Victors
'68 Starfire
'51 Royal Enfield 250 'S'

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