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Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 #597242
04/30/15 7:51 am
04/30/15 7:51 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,564
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
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dave jones Offline OP
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Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
I have one stub that is so tight it cannot be removed but the other has good threads and still loosens.

I looked back over some old threads where John says to remove the first two threads (head end) and then make sure thst there are threads still showing at the other when it bottoms. Is this still the best cure or is there a new one?

If the threads disappear when it is tight I thought I could relieve the plain stub metal next to the last thread (pipe end) to make sure it does bottom.

I also see various oversize stubs for sale but not sure about these.

Dave

Last edited by dave jones; 04/30/15 7:52 am.
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Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: dave jones] #597269
04/30/15 12:24 pm
04/30/15 12:24 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,235
Scotland
kommando Offline
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The oversize stubs work well, Seeger Engineering do them and if you ring them they will tell you what to measure to determine the best oversize for your head, they come without the first 2 threads as standard so work as Triumph and JH intended.

Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: kommando] #597363
05/01/15 5:44 am
05/01/15 5:44 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,564
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
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dave jones Offline OP
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Thanks for that. I have now done what I said I would do in my original post- filed off the first two threads and relieved the area just beyond the threads at the other end. Tightened it by putting a bar through and knocking it tight. Hope this fixes but if not I will try an oversized type.

dave

Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: dave jones] #597597
05/02/15 1:38 pm
05/02/15 1:38 pm
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 568
Surrey UK
M
Mattsta Offline
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Surrey UK
Yup

Agree with Kommando

The oversize stubs supplied by Seager engineering are excellent

I have oversize stubs fitted on both my exhaust ports and they work very well


1952 Triumph T100 in a BSA A7 Frame
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: dave jones] #623314
10/27/15 5:14 pm
10/27/15 5:14 pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,573
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By dave jones
I have now done what I said I would do in my original post- filed off the first two threads and relieved the area just beyond the threads at the other end. Tightened it by putting a bar through and knocking it tight. Hope this fixes but if not I will try an oversized type.

dave

Dave,

How did this work out for you? I had to remove my DS header to open up the primary on my '64 TR6. I found the stub has a bit of wiggle, where once it was tight. I have read John Healy's recommendation and it makes sense to me. I can look inside and see that the end of the exhaust stub is not bottoming out into the head. There are no threads showing on the stub outside the head. The method described here sounds plausible.

If I try to remove the stub to work on it, am I likely to destroy the threads in the head, or should the stub turn out? Are there any special steps to take first, other than soaking it with some penetrant like PB Blaster?

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: dave jones] #623350
10/27/15 9:38 pm
10/27/15 9:38 pm
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 245
USA, WA state
R
russrudolph Offline
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USA, WA state
I had a loose stub filed 2 threads off and now it is tight, very simple to do.

Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: russrudolph] #623376
10/28/15 7:30 am
10/28/15 7:30 am
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,573
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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Illinois, USA
Thanks, russ.

The part I was worried about was taking the exhaust stub out to do the repair. It only rotates in either direction a couple degrees before it gets very tight. I'm thinking I may do more damage to the threads in the head if I force the stub to unscrew. I could just leave it and make sure the header pipe is clamped tightly to the stub. If I do that, is the stub likely to fret in the head until the threads are destroyed anyway? I'm not sure about letting this sleeping dog lie?

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: TR6Ray] #623377
10/28/15 7:36 am
10/28/15 7:36 am
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,740
Bishop, Calif.
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desco Offline
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Winter is almost here. Might as well fix it before it becomes a major problem. Looks like my head is going to visit England.

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=623097#Post623097


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: desco] #623382
10/28/15 9:00 am
10/28/15 9:00 am
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,573
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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Illinois, USA
Hi desco. I've been reading your thread about a similar (but worse) exhaust stub problem. Before you send your head to England, have you read this 7 year old post by JH?

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: TR6Ray] #623387
10/28/15 10:07 am
10/28/15 10:07 am
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,740
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Offline
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Bishop, Calif.
The only place I found in the USA that fixes this get $250 a hole. And requires welding.
http://www.seager-engineering.com/index....t-thread-repair

These people do both sides for $275 and that includes new spigots and no welding.
I'm thinking about letting them do a valve job while they have it apart.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: desco] #623395
10/28/15 11:28 am
10/28/15 11:28 am
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,573
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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desco, that looks like it would be fixed for life, especially if they do a valve job at the same time.

With my exh stub able to rotate a degree or two, I'm wondering if it is just the first step to where yours is at right now. Like you said, winter is coming on. Maybe I need to break out the dremel and start cutting a slot thru the inside of my exh stub.

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: dave jones] #623399
10/28/15 11:45 am
10/28/15 11:45 am
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,334
Back on the mainland!
JubeePrince Offline

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Back on the mainland!
Ray -

If the stub is slightly loose, perhaps it's judst carbon build-up that is buggering up the threads and making it difficult to remove?

Desco - If you get the guides replaced, make sure the shop (or even better, you) removes the carbon with soda blasting before removing the old guides....

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: dave jones] #623400
10/28/15 12:06 pm
10/28/15 12:06 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,235
Scotland
kommando Offline
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Scotland
Before you ship anything to the UK make sure you have the import documentation setup correctly or the recipient will be charged import duties and VAT. It has to come in a free issue material for work within UK and return to its owner.

Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: desco] #623428
10/28/15 4:12 pm
10/28/15 4:12 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,485
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted By desco
The only place I found in the USA that fixes this get $250 a hole. And requires welding.
http://www.seager-engineering.com/index....t-thread-repair

These people do both sides for $275 and that includes new spigots and no welding.
I'm thinking about letting them do a valve job while they have it apart.


In California you tried Franz & Grubb and Raber's?


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: Hillbilly bike] #623430
10/28/15 4:38 pm
10/28/15 4:38 pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,740
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Offline
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Bishop, Calif.
Just called F and G. He did the cylinder on the 72. Great work.
Would not touch the threads in the head with a ten foot pole. PITA.
His words not mine. He recommended Seager after looking at their website.
Don't know why but I just don't care for Raber's.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: desco] #674832
11/18/16 11:57 am
11/18/16 11:57 am
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,573
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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Illinois, USA
On a BMW airhead, each exhaust header is held in place with a finned alloy nut screwed onto an externally threaded spigot on the alloy head. Conventional wisdom says to remove those nuts yearly to apply a fresh coat of anti-seize. If the nut seizes during an attempt to remove it, the best advice is to stop, cut partially through the nut in a couple places, and fracture it with a cold chisel. To do otherwise, like continuing to try to unscrew the galled threads, will give you the opportunity to remove the head and send it out to get the destroyed threads welded up and re-cut.

All this was running through my mind as I was unsuccessfully using various implements of destruction, into the wee hours this morning, to try to remove the DS spigot from the head on my TR6. The head is still on the engine and in the bike.

[Linked Image]

When I started, the spigot would wiggle back and forth only a couple degrees of rotation. I can now turn it one full rev before it goes tight in either direction. I have been soaking it in penetrant and working it back and forth.

This '64 spigot doesn't have the tommy bar holes, just the little notches on the outer end. My next trick will be to let it soak while I make up a better tool to attack it. I'm thinking of a cheap 1 1/2" socket, run through with a grade 8 bolt to grab those evil little notches.

[Linked Image]

Searching for a tip on how to proceed, I found my own, unanswered posts from a year ago (see earlier posts above). Steve suggested that built-up carbon may be causing the problem. I have reached inside the spigot with a hooked pick and cleaned the inner edge of the spigot as much as I could.

So . . . lots of people have replaced these spigots. Am I the only one who has had this much trouble just removing the old one? I started to do this job a year ago, but put it off by just resealing the header joint with silicon. The stub was evidently wiggling and fretting. Toward the end of summer, the engine was popping back on the overrun, signalling a leak at the header joint.

Anybody fought this fight and succeeded? I'd prefer not to have to remove the head and send it off like desco did last year with his.

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: TR6Ray] #674835
11/18/16 12:36 pm
11/18/16 12:36 pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,740
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Offline
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Bishop, Calif.
I sent my head to these guys;
http://www.shopevengineering.com/index.htm
a pleasure to work with, quality work and fair price. And MUCH cheaper shipping.
Get it apart anyway you can, you can't use it the way it is.

Never mind. just saw where you are.

Last edited by desco; 11/18/16 12:38 pm.

1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: dave jones] #674842
11/18/16 1:46 pm
11/18/16 1:46 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,919
Christchurch NZ
R Moulding Offline
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Christchurch NZ

Ray, they bind up in the head as the thread gall's. It makes a god awful mess and is a pain in the arse. I had the very the slight advantage of the tommy bar holes. I seem to remember running the motor with the headers off to introduce some heat and continuing in the manner you are going back and forth. Somewhat anti social i'm afraid. I like your socket idea, perhaps with a big 3/4 drive ratchet, turning a bar with the motor in the frame is awkward as hell.

Rod


So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: R Moulding] #674867
11/18/16 4:54 pm
11/18/16 4:54 pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,573
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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desco, thanks for the reference. I've heard nothing but good about E&V and I am happy that you are once again happy with your ride. I'm a lot closer to Michigan than you are, so, if push comes to shove . . .

Rod, Thanks for sharing your experience. That is sort of what I expected.

After some measuring I found that I needed a 1 9/16" socket to slip over the O.D. of the spigot. It's a cheap 12-point socket and that size allows for the internal ribs to fit onto the spigot. The local big box store had 3/4" drive sockets in 1/16" increments, except they skipped 1 9/16"! Oh well, 1 5/8" will work, if a little wobbly. When did somebody teach those Chinese about heat treatment? I had to regrind the tip of my drill a half dozen times to get two holes through the walls of that socket.

Those blasted little slots in the end of the spigot need a 3/16" bolt, but I couldn't find a grade 8 bolt smaller than 1/4" diameter. I had some of those in grade 8, so I drilled the socket again to enlarge the holes to 1/4". Then I ground some flats on the sides of the bolt so it would fit the slots in the spigot.

I just had a go with it. I can turn the spigot back and forth about two turns now, but the slots in the spigot taper outwards. The tool I made wants to ride out of the slots. mad
I'm going to try to Dremel the slots out a little with a round bit to see if I can bring them to 1/4" and semi-round. That should let me use a regular 1/4" bolt. Nothing's easy!

But, just as I was about to tear out the remaining four or five hairs left on my head, the powder coat guy called. I'm off to pick up my BMW swingarm and chill on the TR6 for an hour or two.

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: dave jones] #674868
11/18/16 5:11 pm
11/18/16 5:11 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,334
Back on the mainland!
JubeePrince Offline

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Back on the mainland!
Ray -

I know the engine is in the frame, but fab up some sort of 2' - 3' cheater handle/pipe on your home made tool and let physics take over.....

Afterthought: Might need two people. One to hold the tool on the stub and one to work the cheater end.

Steve

Last edited by JubeePrince; 11/18/16 5:13 pm. Reason: Afterthought

'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: JubeePrince] #674876
11/18/16 7:59 pm
11/18/16 7:59 pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,573
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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Originally Posted by JubeePrince
Ray -

I know the engine is in the frame, but fab up some sort of 2' - 3' cheater handle/pipe on your home made tool and let physics take over.....

Afterthought: Might need two people. One to hold the tool on the stub and one to work the cheater end.

Steve

Thanks, Steve, but no need now:

[Linked Image]

I used a little burr tool in the Dremel to enlarge the slots in the exhaust spigot, also rounding each side of both slots. Then I put a new 1/4" bolt in my makeshift removal tool. The rounded sides of the slots made a seat for the sides of the bolt and kept the tool from jumping out of the slots. The spigot material is not super hard. I had to reshape the slots several times, because the corners of the slots kept going away.

As I was working the spigot back and forth, it was still squawking and groaning. I put away the penetrating oil and got my little pump can of plain engine lube oil. I brought the spigot out as far as it would go, and put a splash of oil on the exposed threads. I also reached inside the port and put oil at the inside end of the spigot. Then I just worked it back and forth as far as it would go each way, adding oil at both ends every so often. Eventually, it quit squawking, which was encouraging. The spigot began turning more easily within its range of motion. Then, all of a sudden, it started turning freely and just came on out. I think that happened when oil had permeated the full length of the threads.

[Linked Image]

The threads need a good cleaning in the head, but they look to be intact and in good condition. There's nothing wrong at all with the spigot . . . that a new replacement spigot won't cure.

The mess on the face of the cylinder head is leftover silicone that needs to be cleaned off.

All this was done with the bike's hind end up in the air with no rear wheel, and the centerstand sitting on a piece of 2"x12" for more lift. I had to be extra careful not to tip it over. The back wheel is ready to go back on, but I got caught up in the process of this exhaust spigot.

Cheers! (and I really, really mean that)

Ray

p.s. The powder coat job was just splendid on the BMW swingarm!


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: dave jones] #674879
11/18/16 8:18 pm
11/18/16 8:18 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,919
Christchurch NZ
R Moulding Offline
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Nice job Ray. well done. You know very well I am a lazy sod and would likely have welded the socket to the spigot!

Rod


So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: TR6Ray] #674881
11/18/16 8:41 pm
11/18/16 8:41 pm
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,519
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
JBMorris Offline
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nice job with the 'cheater'- how did you drill thru the socket?


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: R Moulding] #674886
11/18/16 8:57 pm
11/18/16 8:57 pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,573
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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Rod, you are anything but lazy. Welding the socket to the spigot would maybe be a good idea, but I never learned to weld; the fuel tank is right above where I was working; I have close to $20 invested in making that tool, and I don't want to buy another one for the other spigot grin

Ray

{Edit} JB, we must have been typing at the same time. I laid out the holes in the socket to allow the tool to fit full depth into the spigot slots, while the end of the socket came as close as possible to the face of the head without hitting it when the spigot was fully seated. I also located the holes to pass through valleys inside the socket, rather than through the thicker ridges. Then I just hit the mark with a center punch, put the socket into the vise on my drill press, and ran it through. I had to use cutting oil and take it slow. All I had were regular high speed steel bits, but they made it by re-grinding the tip as needed.

An afterthought -- it may have worked better to drill the holes through the socket a bit closer to the end of the socket. Then, holding the socket in place over the spigot, use the holes in the socket as guides to drill holes through the spigot. Then pass a bolt all the way through. That would get closer to Rod's idea of welding the socket to the spigot, but yet leave it removable. I may do this for the other side.

Last edited by TR6Ray; 11/18/16 10:12 pm.

'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Loose Exhaust Stub 67 650 [Re: TR6Ray] #675029
11/20/16 11:44 am
11/20/16 11:44 am
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 126
wisconsin
J
jurbanec Offline
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wisconsin
Any reason not to drill two holes through the spigot?

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