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#666916 - 09/08/16 1:41 pm 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project...  
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Kev. Online sick
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A 1970 BSA A65 Lightning. Originally found in a barn in Indiana over there in the US of A, and sold by the widow of the owner. it is in amazing unmolested condition, apart from those hideous bars! and the wrong front end, it has the original keys for both ignition and steering lock. no rust anywhere and the tank inside is all shiney and new looking. But the whole bike could really do with a good clean.
Yes there are a couple of things that need sorting, fork gaiters, bars, also the rear light lens, and guard were damaged in shipping. but with a battery connected, all the lights etc work, as does the ammeter, and when kicked over there is a good spark at the plugs, and a good oil return at the tank.













Nice clear matching numbers









Never seen these alloy clock surrounds before, standard fitting?



http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



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#666923 - 09/08/16 1:51 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Royal Berkshire.
Label on headstock says it all... February 1970 A65L.



So that is where I have started, and now I start sorting parts, finding what's good, and also what's bad. And ordering new parts as I start to get the bike back on the road where it belongs....

As I intend to pull the top end, I have started getting a few parts for that area, de-coke gasket set was first, and while looking at the SRM site, I saw these nice tappet adjusters, which arrived today...







http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#666924 - 09/08/16 1:53 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Allan Gill Offline
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They could be chromed mounts. The c1965 models had those types of mounts - painted black. You require the full rubber binnacle.

The front end could have been changed by someone thinking that they had a 67 bike. But that's a dead straight 70. Good find!!

Forks should be the triumph type. So don't forget to open your search. Stanchions up are the same, just the sliders and oil seal holders you'll need, plus some ancillary parts for that area. Wheel again, triumph/BSA. If you want to sell those bottom parts on, let me know.

If nothing else I have the correct front brake plate and TLS linkages for your bike.

Last edited by Allan Gill; 09/08/16 1:55 pm.

beerchug
#666978 - 09/09/16 1:19 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Allan Gill]  
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Hi Allan, Kev,

Originally Posted By Allan Gill
Forks should be the triumph type.
Stanchions up are the same, just the sliders and oil seal holders you'll need,

Mmmm ... yes and no.

Stanchions are only the same as the '69/'70 Triumph T25 singles and T150 triple, not Triumph twins. Sliders are peculiar to BSA twins although, from a thread some years ago, apparently singles' sliders can be used with their mudguard mounting. Oil seal holders are the same as triples and Triumph twins but, for some reason, not the singles? shocked

Hth.

Regards,

#667019 - 09/09/16 11:36 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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KC in S.B. Offline
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Okay, besides the fact it's a very nice find!!..... Since we are focused on the fork, My $.02 is that it's a '67 in disguise! A65LA motor, no OP switch, with a late tank,T-lite, front brake stop switch. After all, the guys watching the new models come to the show room would certainly compare it to the Cycle World magazine ads for the new models and raise a howl! That DOES also apply to the brake I'd guess, but If the Y bikes were mfd in '67, which happens to be my favorite year BTW, isn't that a simple answer? It's an easy last second "fix" to slap a '70 sticker on the bike before it shipped out. Always fun to guess at this stuff. Nice Find !!

Last edited by KC in S.B.; 09/09/16 11:37 am.

Down to 1 BSA, 2 Triumphs, 2 '56 Chevys
#667021 - 09/09/16 11:43 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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KC in S.B. Offline
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".................. apart from those hideous bars!" I dunno, I kinda like'em........ ;~)


Down to 1 BSA, 2 Triumphs, 2 '56 Chevys
#667022 - 09/09/16 11:46 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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Its got the 70 clutch, ball ramp and barrels with 3/8th bi hex nuts, probably had a front end swap after a shunt.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#667023 - 09/09/16 12:08 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: gavin eisler]  
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Originally Posted By gavin eisler
Its got the 70 clutch, ball ramp and barrels with 3/8th bi hex nuts, probably had a front end swap after a shunt.


I agree completely, but was it a shunt or a poorly performed stunt?

Don in Nipomo


1956 Zundapp KS601EL
1960 Greeves Scottish/Hawkstone Velorex 560
1963 BSA Gold Star Spitfire
1964 Triumph T20SM
1965 BSA C15T
1966 BSA VE
1968 Bonham Tote Gote
1969 BSA VS
1970 BSA A65L (with a "Y")
1972 Husqvarna 450 WR
1986 Yamaha TT 225
1987 BMW K75C
#667044 - 09/09/16 4:45 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: KC in S.B.]  
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Allan Gill Offline
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Originally Posted By KC in S.B.
Okay, besides the fact it's a very nice find!!..... Since we are focused on the fork, My $.02 is that it's a '67 in disguise! A65LA motor, no OP switch, with a late tank,T-lite, front brake stop switch. After all, the guys watching the new models come to the show room would certainly compare it to the Cycle World magazine ads for the new models and raise a howl! That DOES also apply to the brake I'd guess, but If the Y bikes were mfd in '67, which happens to be my favorite year BTW, isn't that a simple answer? It's an easy last second "fix" to slap a '70 sticker on the bike before it shipped out. Always fun to guess at this stuff. Nice Find !!


No guessing needed KC, It has everything 1970 about it. Except the front end.


Apart from the forks there is nothing 67' about the bike. The LA Y serial number was issued with the 180 day warranty and only 1970 models received the 180 day warranty, not 69 or anything previous.



Last edited by Allan Gill; 09/09/16 4:49 pm.

beerchug
#667095 - 09/10/16 1:33 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: KC in S.B.]  
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Hi KC,

Originally Posted By KC in S.B.
no OP switch,

I agree that you can't see it in the first picture, but isn't that the port for it above the dome of the OPRV? I see there's only one idiot lamp in the headlamp shell; if that's a pre-'69 front end, could whoever fitted it have simply used the single idiot lamp for the high beam warning and left out all the oil warning parts?

Regards,

#667096 - 09/10/16 1:48 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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The cases have the casting for OP switch.



#667210 - 09/11/16 4:33 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Allan Gill Offline
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That they do. Even has the original domed oprv (1970 on)

The headlight looks to be for a triumph. The idiot lights on the BSA should be in line with the ammeter, not below.


beerchug
#667235 - 09/11/16 11:07 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Allan Gill]  
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B44R and B models have the same 3 hole configuration as the headlight shown. The R has a rotary light switch and the B has a toggle switch as shown.

#667262 - 09/11/16 2:40 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Thanks for the input, very helpful...



http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#667426 - 09/12/16 8:34 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Sydney Australia
And now you are faced with a problem.
What are you going to do with the bike ?
Catalogue correct ?
But what if it shipped with the B 40 / B 44 headlamp from the factory ?
BSA was a big company and lots of things went wrong.
To get better shipping rates, cargo space was booked a long way in advance so as the dispatch date became closer lots of bits that will "Fill the space " got tossed on to make the cut off date for delivery to the wharves .
So if it is a low mileage bike with no evidence of a smash then what is on it is most likely original, as supplied to the dealers and bought by th customer.
So do you cherish the history as is or convert it to match the book ?


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#667440 - 09/13/16 4:05 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: BSA_WM20]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Trevor,

Originally Posted By BSA_WM20
BSA was a big company

Precisely. By February 1970, BSA and Triumph were well into their third season with common fork parts and brakes/wheels. The suggestion that production planners were so inept that stocks of the correct parts, and B25/T25 sliders, had run out - but piles of three-year-old fork and brake parts were kicking around - seems somewhat far-fetched?

I take it you never met Al Cave? I wouldn't like to claim any great insight but my distinct impression was that, if the above had happened, certain people would've had their heads displayed on stakes on the factory walls ...

Originally Posted By BSA_WM20
To get better shipping rates, cargo space was booked a long way in advance

In sailing ships to Australia, possibly. In 1970 to the US, with several competing shipping groups with big container ships to fill, any delay would've impacted more on the importer's distribution plans; if the choice was then between bikes the importer could simply shift in and out a few days later, or bikes they or the dealers had to fit front ends to, the latter would've caused far more grief than a few days' shipping delay.

Originally Posted By BSA_WM20
So if it is a low mileage bike with no evidence of a smash then what is on it is most likely original,

So it couldn't have been put to one side in favour of a Japanese bike in the early 1970's, stripped of its original front-end perhaps to fix another crashed '68/'69/'70 BSA (or Triumph) twin later - when we know spares were hard to come by - then had some crap old front end fitted to make it a 'runner' to flog in 2016, 'cos "they're werf summink, they are, mate"?

And, as the second decade of the 21st century heads rapidly for the third, you'd ride with some carp old front brake that was vintage when it was new half-a-century ago, when "catalogue" says you can fit one of the best motorcycle drum brakes? Mmmm ...

Regards, smile

#667443 - 09/13/16 6:18 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Stuart]  
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Quote:
Precisely. By February 1970, BSA and Triumph were well into their third season with common fork parts and brakes/wheels. The suggestion that production planners were so inept that stocks of the correct parts, and B25/T25 sliders, had run out - but piles of three-year-old fork and brake parts were kicking around - seems somewhat far-fetched?


Apart from dealers at the time who are on this list regularly confirming that BSA regularly sent bikes over with the wrong parts fitted from the factory. Dealers down here who have verbally confirmed that they were lucky to the 20 bikes that were all correct , it also features in 2 of the thesis that have been written about the collapse of BSA and I think Hopewood's book that included a phrase to the effect that the spares department were always having troubles filling orders completely because the production department kept pinching parts.
I do have a Dealer Buletin kicking around somewhere with rates for retro fitting the correct parts, which from what I have been led to believe was rarely ever actually paid.

Back in the days of manual production scheduling keeping tabs on all the inventory required to fill an order was not an easy job. So all you needed to happen was a small batch of reject parts and your scheduling was down the toilet and the production line could not stop for a day or two till fresh stocks of the correct parts turned up.
There was also a comment somewhere about colour inconsistency occuring because black painted parts from the spares department had to be sprayed up in that years colour due to problems with production parts.

Quote:
To get better shipping rates, cargo space was booked a long way in advance
.
This was also in Koerner & Heaton as a factor that contributed to excessive production costs as scheduling was continually disrupted in order to get an export order out on time.
Koerner ( I think ) also mentioned that the prebooked freight had to be paid for regardless of weather the bikes actually shipped or not and missing slots doubled freight cost so some shipments were loss making before they were unloaded in the US.
I think Ryerson also mention something along these lines but I would have to reread him as it has been a few years since I last read his book.

And full containerization did not come in till well into the 70's
Certainly all of the images I have seen of exported BSA's had them loose packed or crated.
The very first shipping containers entered service in 1956 and that was for deck cargo only ( I went to a few 50th birthday bashes in 2005 & 2006 when I was in transport ) .However the standard sizes pallet did not come into being till 1968 and it was only after pallets had been standardized that shipping containers became standardised.

Now I am not going to speculate upon the history of this particular bike but we used to get a lot of very low mileage bikes imported from the USA down here with no evidence of accident damage but definately fitted with "wrong" parts.
Now you could very well be correct.
it could have had a front ender totalling the forks and got put away to be fixed latter on .


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#667452 - 09/13/16 8:11 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: BSA_WM20]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Trevor,

Risking Mike's snippers ...

Originally Posted By BSA_WM20
Quote:
To get better shipping rates, cargo space was booked a long way in advance
.
full containerization did not come in till well into the 70's

Errrm ... I actually worked for P&O - then the largest shipping line in the world - through the 1970's. In those days, even companies like P&O couldn't afford the enormous investment needed for full containerisation and formed consortia. ACL (Atlantic Container Line) - originally a British consortium of shipping lines in the Europe-North America "shipping conference", began operating in 1967; P&O was major shareholder of OCL (Overseas Container Line), the British consortium in containerising Europe-Australia in 1971 and Europe-Japan in 1972. Smaller ships built from the late 1960's onwards were designed capable of accommodating what became standard ISO shipping container dimensions.

Originally Posted By BSA_WM20
Koerner & Heaton
Ryerson

I'm not suggesting I know everything better than the academics but, if academics are claiming that export shipping costs were a major factor in the decline of British motorcycle manufacturing, either they or whichever department in BSA handled export shipping missed very many tricks.

Originally Posted By BSA_WM20
the standard sizes pallet did not come into being till 1968 and it was only after pallets had been standardized that shipping containers became standardised.

Again, at least not in Europe; the 1.2m (note metric) pallet dimension derives from the internal width of the original 8' (note Imperial/US) standard ISO container outside width, allowing two pallets to be fitted side-by-side with relative ease but with minimal wasted space. In turn, the original ISO 8' x 8' end dimension likely derives from its use in US containerisation systems from the 1930's and worked well for intermodal as many countries already used that as a maximum vehicle width.

Regards,

#667455 - 09/13/16 9:01 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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kommando Online content
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One company I worked for tried to save money by pre booking container slots a year in advance direct with the shipping lines, fine if you have a steady business. On paper it worked but it failed badly come the first downturn, the shippers had their contract and goods or no goods they got paid for the containers. It was never renewed and they went back to using traditional forwarding agents.

#667494 - 09/13/16 5:04 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Pics of the fuel tank front LHS two dents, one from tope yoke, one from cable bracket, looks like a front end change. Have a lok at the lockstops for damage/repair.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 09/13/16 5:05 pm.

71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#667501 - 09/13/16 6:01 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Until i lived here i wouldn't have believed some of the stuff that was sent out here, so using up old parts to fill the 'Colonial Bin' does not surprise me at all. It normally just meant retrieving it from the reject bins and transferring it.
Look at it from Beezers point of view.... Small market, long way away, etc. 'They are used to making do'



#667553 - 09/14/16 7:08 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: NickL]  
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Quote:
I'm not suggesting I know everything better than the academics but, if academics are claiming that export shipping costs were a major factor in the decline of British motorcycle manufacturing, either they or whichever department in BSA handled export shipping missed very many tricks.


And neither do I.
However I did not say it was MAJOR factor but it was a contributing factor.
Please do not put words into my mouth.
We have to remember that profit margins were quite slim on motorcycles.
BSA was under massive pressure from the USA to reduce prices to closer match those from Japan and doubling the shipping costs took a big slug out of profits.

While we can only speculate upon what production difficulties BSA was under it would be very safe to say that production scheduling and inventory control was a major problem.
So much of a problem that even when BSA was short of capital they thought it prudent to invest £ 100,000 in 1967 on the computerised production control system and that decision was made in the light of the failure to get the bikes to the USA in time to make the selling season.
According to Ryerson the groups profit for that year dropped £,500,000 so if the board was happy add 20% to that figure says a lot about the gravity production scheduling problems.
Perhaps Alister had run out of poles to mount heads upon.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#667554 - 09/14/16 7:23 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: NickL]  
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Originally Posted By NickL
Until i lived here i wouldn't have believed some of the stuff that was sent out here, so using up old parts to fill the 'Colonial Bin' does not surprise me at all. It normally just meant retrieving it from the reject bins and transferring it.
Look at it from Beezers point of view.... Small market, long way away, etc. 'They are used to making do'


Most of the weird & wonderful factory original bitzas that were sold down here in the 60's were bikes that did not sell in the USA as our summer comes after the north.
Thus BSA were able to cut cost by filling Australian & New Zealand orders with unsold US stock and funny enough lots of these were the "despach panic specials " so the first orders that arrived came from the UK these were either the Home models or General Export models then the balance came from the USA mostly West Cost models but I can remember seeing what I now know to be East Coast on the floor as well.
This made buying things like throttle , clutch & brake cables a disaster as you can have 4 different ones but all of the spares we got were for whatever model we were supposed to get that year.
As you know we ride all year round so the factory could start on next seasons models earlier by supplying the balance orderss with surplus USA stock.
It was not uncommon to see the East Coast, West Coast & general export models all sitting on the showroom floor at the same time.
Up untill 1950 Australia was BSA's biggest export market.
There was some sort of political problems in 1950 so we got almost no 1951 models and then BSA hit the USA market big time.
However Australia remained the second largest export market for the BSA -Triumph group right until the bitter end.
So were were a big market , just not the biggest.

Last edited by BSA_WM20; 09/14/16 7:28 am.

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Trevor
#667636 - 09/15/16 5:50 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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this bike is not factory fresh,18K miles on the clocks if they are original, the head has been painted black, rear shocks dont look stock,clocks are scratched, new petrol pipes and clips, dents in the tank, missing clutch cable rubber,this has been used a fair bit. AFAIK all twin carbs after 68 got the TLS brake.
My money is on a front end prang, with new / old wheel, fork legs, lamp bucket to get it useable again.Even re using the old 70 brake cable with the switch, these older parts would have been easy to fit on to return the bike to the road.Nothing wrong with it the way it is, how does it run?


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#667648 - 09/15/16 7:49 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Your right Gavin, 68' twin carbs all got the underslung TLS only the thunderbolt and royal star which did not, 69 on ALL A-series models received TLS of the cable following the fork type.


beerchug
#667659 - 09/15/16 10:28 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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The 1970 LA-Y models are very unique. You have a very interesting model. Good luck on reviving it and putting it back where it belongs.... on the road!

#667793 - 09/16/16 2:18 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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I have started putting together some parts as I ready to start on the bike on Sunday, and as it is a Kempton jumble this weekend I shall see what else I can find to get this old thing back on the road....


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1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#667796 - 09/16/16 2:31 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Sourcing a proper front end would be very beneficial, brake is much more effective than what you have now. I just found out is much better than my stock disc brake on my 73 T 150.
The same with forks, I like them better than my 73 Trident forks.

#667833 - 09/16/16 6:08 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Adam M.]  
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Hi Adam,

Originally Posted By Adam M.
I just found out is much better than my stock disc brake on my 73 T 150.

More work needed on the disc brake? wink

Regards,

#667897 - 09/17/16 10:43 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Yes, comparing stock to stock BSA drum wins ( not taking into consideration much higher weight of the Trident ).
I already started improving it by changing stock pads to Ferodo Platinum, which under a touch feel 10x more abrasive than stock.
However I still can't try it, as I'm waiting on valve adjusters from Gale Gorman who agreed to send them free of any charges which is very generous.
Unfortunately I had two cases of dropped pushrod, one caused by pinch rocker box spring and one of them caused partially thread removal from one of the adjusters.

#667924 - 09/17/16 2:05 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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It was a good day walking around Kempton Jumble today, I managed to get a few things for the Lightning, so I can now start to get this thing headed back towards the road.
The first things on my list were the handlebars, and the Lucas rear light, well as you can see I found some new Triumph western style bars, and I also found a genuine Lucas rear light unit. These two items alone have transformed the look of the bike.

Before..


After..









I have new gaiters to fit, new fuel taps, and fuel line. but first tomorrow I will be pulling the head to see what the top end looks like. bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668041 - 09/18/16 1:19 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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People are strange when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven when you're down

When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange
When you're strange
When you're stran
ge


So said the Doors.... And in some cases it seems to be true, especially when you start looking at old bikes that have an unknown history, and just when you think you have seen it all, up pops something new that makes you chuckle to yourself, whilst at the same time makes you recoil in disbelief as you wonder what other little surprises await as you dig further into that "new" old bike!

Today I started pulling the top end apart to try to discover the cause of low compression on one cylinder, so the first thing that needs removing is the tank, which as had already been noted had the wrong fuel taps fitted....



but what I discovered here left me speechless, in an amused bewildered sort of way!







Yes, that is an ariel coaxial cable joining piece!

laughing


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668043 - 09/18/16 1:24 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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D.Bachtel Online content
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So the previous owner was a cable guy huh?
That's a strange approach to mounting petcocks, don't know how people arrive at decisions like that.

Kev... you need a passenger grab rail.

Don in Nipomo

#668045 - 09/18/16 1:31 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Tank off, and deeper in to the mire...

Original Lucas harness.







pistons are at +20, and there is evidence of previous problems. as this light scoring proves, but this looks worse in the picture than it actually is, you can't feel it with your finger nail, so a light honing should be fine here.





Valves seem to be sealing well, but will be removed, later for head overhaul. So that only leaves one place for the compression loss, it must be the rings?



And that proves to be true when the barrels are removed, and we find that all the rings are solidly stuck in, on the R/H piston, causing blow by, on this cylinder. Time to order some new rings.





beerchug


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668054 - 09/18/16 3:02 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev, did the bike come with a head stay?
I haven't spotted one yet.

Don in Nipomo

#668055 - 09/18/16 3:05 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Unstick the rings by heating the piston crown with a heat gun, then slapping a wet cloth on to chill, repeat till the rings pop out. They may even be reusable if they aent too corroded.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#668062 - 09/18/16 4:11 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: D.Bachtel]  
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Originally Posted By D.Bachtel
Kev, did the bike come with a head stay?
I haven't spotted one yet.

Don in Nipomo
No Don, missing in action?

bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668063 - 09/18/16 4:13 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: gavin eisler]  
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Originally Posted By gavin eisler
Unstick the rings by heating the piston crown with a heat gun, then slapping a wet cloth on to chill, repeat till the rings pop out. They may even be reusable if they aent too corroded.


Too corroded, pistons are salvageable so shall just find some rings..

bigt

I love a good project.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668099 - 09/19/16 2:23 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev, those types of Pistons (with the cut always that look like something of Dr Who) were prone to cracking and dropping the skirt. I would Suguest looking at fitting a set with the 3 small oil control holes for and aft of the piston to prevent problem in the future.

A hone may fix your problem. Are you doing it your self or sending it in?


beerchug
#668100 - 09/19/16 2:26 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted By Stuart
Hi Adam,

Originally Posted By Adam M.
I just found out is much better than my stock disc brake on my 73 T 150.

More work needed on the disc brake? wink

Regards,


Agreed, or see how poorly the same TLS on the pre OIF A65 is compared when fitted to a Rocket3


beerchug
#668107 - 09/19/16 3:53 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Allan Gill]  
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Hi Allan,

Originally Posted By Allan Gill
see how poorly the same TLS on the pre OIF A65 is compared when fitted to a Rocket3

Mmmm ... my T150 has one and, while I wouldn't choose the drum over a disc if, say, descending an alp two-up with camping gear, and it fades about two-thirds of the way through a race-track 'parade' - usually on Steep Drop Hill into Squeaky Bottom Bend frown - on the road it should do what it says on the tin without drama, especially if anyone's done the usual match the shoes to the drum, adjust the shoes correctly, etc., etc.

Regards,

#668115 - 09/19/16 7:59 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted By Stuart
Hi Allan,

Originally Posted By Allan Gill
see how poorly the same TLS on the pre OIF A65 is compared when fitted to a Rocket3

Mmmm ... my T150 has one and, while I wouldn't choose the drum over a disc if, say, descending an alp two-up with camping gear, and it fades about two-thirds of the way through a race-track 'parade' - usually on Steep Drop Hill into Squeaky Bottom Bend frown - on the road it should do what it says on the tin without drama, especially if anyone's done the usual match the shoes to the drum, adjust the shoes correctly, etc., etc.

Regards,


just re read my statement, made it sound like it was better with the heavier bike.

On my A65, I had the drum skimmed and over sized shoes fitted to suit. once it started to bed in it has a real good bite, too good infact so when I use the brake its only at limited pressure. I set my friends rocket3 up the same and the only difference being the brake light switch mid cable (I dont think this helps at all) Whether the weight of the bike is enough to overcome the wanting to lock the brake. But I would personally prefer the T140 or T160 disc brake conversion. And if those brakes arent powerful enough then Norman Hyde does a twin disc conversion. He also does a floating disc arangement too... A lot of pretty add-ons to be had if your willing to spend the cash.


beerchug
#668119 - 09/19/16 8:34 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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So you own a bike owned by Larry the Cable Guy, petcock problems?, GIT-R-DONE. Pretty decent looking bike for being 46 years old.

#668139 - 09/19/16 12:54 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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+ 1 to Allan post about the pistons.
Buy yourself a very decent set of JCC pistons ( $ 100 a pair on Ebay.com )+ good Goetze rings from Walridge ( Canada )for cheap as well and be done with cylinder / pistons problem for the next 20 years smile.
Same with the head, stock stuff is too low quality to work longer than 2 years, Kibblewhite valves and guides give you much longer service.
They are expensive, so to make it little cheaper you can go with iron guides - they work well with those valves. Had them in my engine for 3 years.

To the brake part discussion my take is as follows :
- over sized shoes and skimmed drum is the beginning - the shoes have to be arc to the drum,
- the slider's tang should be tight in the brake plate.
Those gave me 2 finger brake with solid bite at the beginning of braking.
Reading through early T150 tests, opinions about front TLS brake were mostly favorable.
This info about could be relevant for Kevin in the future

#668144 - 09/19/16 1:31 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Allan Gill]  
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Originally Posted By Allan Gill
Kev, those types of Pistons (with the cut always that look like something of Dr Who) were prone to cracking and dropping the skirt. I would Suguest looking at fitting a set with the 3 small oil control holes for and aft of the piston to prevent problem in the future.

A hone may fix your problem. Are you doing it your self or sending it in?


Doing it myself Allan.... bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668145 - 09/19/16 1:46 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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I wouldn't use those pistons either, nothing but trouble... wink





You're going to need a headstay, besides the obvious advantage of keeping your engine from bouncing around in the frame you need it to mount the horn relay.


Don in Nipomo

#668151 - 09/19/16 2:56 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Deciding which pistons to use is a lottery when buying from the internet or online shop, most places now use a generic picture of a piston, not a specific piston, and in some cases not even a BSA piston? I had in mind to fit a lower compression set at this time, but they seem to be double the price of the standard 9-1 compression kits, I have no idea why. So I have ordered a set of +20's from a well known supplier over here in the UK. We shall see what I get.

I am not too concerned over the whole front end fork thing, if I was into restoring the bike then maybe, but I am only building a general rider, so as long as it is clean and reliable, I will be happy, and then I may put things "right" at a later date, if I feel the need.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668186 - 09/19/16 9:46 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Just trying to pass my experiences about this bike ( my is 70 Thunderbolt ) learned during 8 years of ownership in the "school of hard knocks". How do you use it, it's your business.
I wrote about front end + TLS brake, because it makes general rider from this bike for me.

#668256 - 09/20/16 2:11 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Adam M.]  
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Originally Posted By Adam M.
Just trying to pass my experiences about this bike ( my is 70 Thunderbolt ) learned during 8 years of ownership in the "school of hard knocks". How do you use it, it's your business.
I wrote about front end + TLS brake, because it makes general rider from this bike for me.


Hi Adam, I hope I didn't come across as ungrateful, far from it, I really appreciate all the input I have received in this thread.

bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668397 - 09/21/16 3:29 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Rereading my answer again feels snappy, but it wasn't my intention.
Everybody has his own circumstances and experiences shaping his actions.
Canada is very different from GB and what could be natural here is probably not there.
Good luck with your project.

Last edited by Adam M.; 09/21/16 3:30 pm.
#668624 - 09/23/16 2:45 pm Of Dome nuts and pistons? [Re: Kev.]  
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Here is a question for the rivet counters amongst you, I ordered some replacement rocker cover dome nuts, as the ones on my bike were a little tarnished (not quite rusty) as you can see below...



but the ones that turned up from the BSA parts people are different, as you can see, but which ones were fitted in 1970?



I also received my new pistons too...



bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668627 - 09/23/16 3:03 pm Re: Of Dome nuts and pistons? [Re: Kev.]  
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The new dome ones, never seen that nipple type before. radius all sharp edges round valve cutouts and polish tops on piston crowns before fitting.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#668629 - 09/23/16 3:13 pm Re: Of Dome nuts and pistons? [Re: Kev.]  
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Only the centre ones should have been domed. The outer should be normal nuts. That said I have it the other way around deeper nuts in the middle and the nicer looking domed nuts on the outside. They should be 1/4 BSF from memory


beerchug
#668642 - 09/23/16 5:23 pm Re: Of Dome nuts and pistons? [Re: Kev.]  
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Could you show the inside of these pistons ?

#668647 - 09/23/16 5:53 pm Re: Of Dome nuts and pistons? [Re: Kev.]  
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of course, tomorrow.


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1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668847 - 09/25/16 11:47 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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A couple of pictures from todays visit to my lockup, first up is the front wheel I picked up yesterday at Shepton jumble, as you can see the brake plate is nice, but the rim is shot, so I think I may well get a new rim fitted when I do the front end change.










Left and Right AMAL 930's, R41, and L42, soon to be heading for the ultrasonic bath.





The old pistons were/are Hepolite's





Back at the last Kempton Jumble, I picked up a nice set of Craven Comet panniers, and an old rack that may well end up being fitted to the Lightning.





beerchug


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668855 - 09/25/16 12:11 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Ride safe today!
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Gothenburg, Sweden
I see that your carbs are 930/41 and 42
those mumbers was mounted on my A65L 1970 and I was curious what model those carbs was for?
the proper from the books are 930/34 and 35 which is now mounted

above is not a big issue just curious which model 41 and 42 are ment for from the beginning.
cheers
Morgan

#668860 - 09/25/16 12:59 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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I think you may be putting too much trust in the book, Morgan. There is no reason to believe that your carbs, and my carbs are not original fitment.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#668873 - 09/25/16 2:20 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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I had a quick glance and couldn't find reference to the 41 42 carbs. A search on the site didn't show anything up either. John Healy may know better but it's possible that when the extended tickler was released on new carbs that some carbs changed their designation number. It's only a guess though. The fact that you both record having these carb numbers shows that it's 99% possible they were original fitment.

Main thing is you have

#3 slide
2 ring needle with clip in the top slot
106 needle jet
Extended jet holder
180 main jet

Wouldn't do any hard to change all those parts for new and fit premier slides. Firstly though, check that the flange is flat.


beerchug
#668883 - 09/25/16 3:18 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Allan Gill]  
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I am going to ask AMAL/Burlen, they have extensive old records, they once told me about an old carb I had on a road rocket that wasn't "in the book" but was factory fitment.

All these old factory records and serial numbers are really only a reference guide, and should not be regarded as set in stone.
bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

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1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#669474 - 09/29/16 3:57 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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I sent the head off to SRM this week for full refurbishment, and have also ordered one of their sump plates with magnetic drain plug.

I intend to fit an external oil filter to the bike, and have a choice of two, the standard "Norton" style with screw on filter, and a BSA B25 canister filter, but I can't find a suitable place to fit either? if you have fitted a filter to your A65, could you post a picture of where and how.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#669521 - 09/30/16 12:04 am Re: Of Dome nuts and pistons? [Re: Kev.]  
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Originally Posted By Kev.
Here is a question for the rivet counters amongst you, I ordered some replacement rocker cover dome nuts, as the ones on my bike were a little tarnished (not quite rusty) as you can see below...



but the ones that turned up from the BSA parts people are different, as you can see, but which ones were fitted in 1970?



I also received my new pistons too...



bigt


Those rocker cover nuts look like Norton Commando exhaust rocker cover nuts.


Mark F.
'52 ZB34 Gold Star.
'65 Lightning Rocket.
'74 Roadster Commando.



#669525 - 09/30/16 1:01 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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The new ones look correct for the inner or top pair.

You'll never see them with the tank on unless you really get down and peek..




Don in Nipomo

#669532 - 09/30/16 2:39 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Hi Kev,

Originally Posted By Kev.
external oil filter to the bike, and have a choice of two, the standard "Norton" style with screw on filter, and a BSA B25 canister filter,

You're also aware of the Andy Gregory/Tri-Cor England filter, that uses the a triples' element? Fwiw, I've one of these on my T100, mounted pretty-much as in the picture, the T100 has plenty of space there.

Andy also offers an "oif" version; the inlet is in a different position, rather than there being any functional difference between "pre-OIF" and "OIF".

Hth.

Regards,

#669591 - 09/30/16 4:01 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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I just ordered and received this new SRM magnetic sump plate assembly for the BSA Lightning. The quality is outstanding as I hope you can see from the pictures.

I also sent my head off to SRM to have new valves, guides etc. It is right about now that I hope the bottom end is all ok! everything seems fine but I won’t know for sure until I fire the bike up. A scary thought.



beerchug


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#669670 - 10/01/16 10:47 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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It has been a wet day here in the UK, heavy rain on and off all day, so not too much done with the A65, but I did manage to hone out the bores on the barrels, and run the carbs through the ultrasonic tank. maybe if it is dry tomorrow I can get a bit more done.



http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#669765 - 10/02/16 10:56 am Re: Of Dome nuts and pistons? [Re: Adam M.]  
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Originally Posted By Adam M.

Could you show the inside of these pistons ?


Out with the old, in with the new...

Old pistons...





and in with the new pistons...





bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#669879 - 10/03/16 12:03 pm Re: Of Dome nuts and pistons? [Re: Kev.]  
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Thanks Kev, but I thought about the insides of new pistons smile.
They are not relieved like JCC pistons around a gudgeon pin, so being in your shoes I'd check their weight comparing them to originals. I remember some Australian made pistons being much heavier than originals and I personally would avoid those.
Your gudgeon pin's circlips are not my favorite type as well.
Personally I prefer the type without any part of it hanging in the front of a pin, because in this case pin's end holds it in it's place. In the case of your circlips, pin can push it out of it's place hitting it during engine working.
Piston's rings are OK, but you can get Goetze made rings in GB now, which are also cast iron but have a spring for the oil ring and their quality is really high.
They will give you much better oil control than average cast iron rings.
Sorry for mostly negative post - just wanting to save you some pain with BSA in the long run.
Don't take my opinions for granted, I hope the rest of the guys involved with A 65 will comment.

#670123 - 10/05/16 2:08 pm Re: Of Dome nuts and pistons? [Re: Kev.]  
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Adam not negative at all, the pistons I removed were not the originals as they are +20, are they the same make as original equipment? As for the circlips, I actually prefer this type, these are the same as I use on the Moto Guzzi, and they seem to fit nice and tight.
I never got to weigh the pistons against the ones removed, but as I said it would make little difference as I wouldn't know if those were heavier or lighter than the standard ones.


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1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#670277 - 10/06/16 2:57 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Pulling it all apart, putting it all together.

I have now for the moment taken the motor as far apart as I intend to go for the time being. I have drained and flushed through the crank cases, and was pleased to find no metal in the drained oil after letting it stand in the tray for a week, and filtering it off over a strong magnet.

The cylinder head has gone off to SRM in Wales for full refurbishment, which includes lead free seats, new guides, valves, springs etc. This work wasn't cheap by any means, but it should last me out, and make for a good top end. I am looking forward to getting the head back so I can button up the top end.

Last weekend I cleaned off all the old base gasket material, and fitted the new pistons, I also honed out and painted the barrels ready to be fitted. I would have fitted the barrels but the supplied base gasket in the kit I bought was for the 1/2" stud version cases and not the 3/8" as required on the later cases, so again I find myself waiting.

Next I turned my attention to the front end and dropped out both fork legs, water had got in through the torn gaiters, and was evident in both legs, water came out of the right hand side, but the left hand stanchion is at the moment seized solid. So I have left it soaking in some penetrating oil for the week, I shall see how it does this weekend.

bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#670334 - 10/07/16 4:05 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Hi Kev,

Originally Posted By Kev.
the supplied base gasket in the kit I bought was for the 1/2" stud version cases and not the 3/8" as required on the later cases,

Risking putting my foot in it, I thought 'earlier' cases had 1/4"-dia. barrel base studs? confused

Regards,

#670371 - 10/07/16 1:03 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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I was of course wrong with the stud size, but I was tired when posting


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#670531 - 10/09/16 11:16 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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The inside of the new pistons? ok then as you asked...



I called round to see my old friend Terry the Vincent today, just for a cup of tea and a chat, always a good way to lose an hour, and whilst there Terry gifted me an original genuine pair of of AMAL alloy levers, you see lots of new and a few original Doherty versions, but the Doherty's are thicker and straighter in the lever, where the much rarer AMAL version have a slimmer profile, and are flatter where your fingers rest.
These are in great condition with the original stamped clamps, although one lever end has a little road rash.





beerchug bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#670732 - 10/11/16 6:22 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Really envy your ability with the camera Kev.
I'm terrible in this regard.
Anyway difficult to say what these pistons are, I hope not JP - people had problems with them.
I'm just baffled they don't have relief around piston pins.

#671112 - 10/15/16 6:14 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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I am going to sell the whole lower fork assembly including front wheel brake etc, the forks are removed and stripped down and will require new stanchions etc before use, one slider will also need a little work as it has a tight spot which had seized the forks up? the front wheel is in fantastic condition though.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#671175 - 10/16/16 2:25 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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The lightning seems to have taken up residence on the bench right now, the whole front end is out, the head is away at SRM having a full on valve job, I was hoping the head may have been completed this weekend but not so. As can happen sometimes, I managed to break a piston ring fitting the barrel, and the broken piece of course dropped into the crank cases, and could not be seen. But some fishing around with a telescopic magnet found it in the bottom of the cases. So after again fitting a spare ring to the piston, and some help from Paul, I managed to get the refinished barrels in place, bolted down.



Next it was time to fit my new SRM magnetic sump kit, after removing the old studs I offered up the new gauze filter, only to find that it did not fit! it seems that SRM sent me out a kit for a B50 or other single, as the hole in the gauze was too small (8.5mm instead of 11.5mm) to go over the scavenger pipe. Luckily my old filter gauze was in very good condition, so I decided to use that rather than wait for a replacement from SRM.

Then it was just a case of bolting it all up to the underside of the motor.





bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#671520 - 10/19/16 3:42 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Hi
I'm a newbie to this forum so hope it's ok muscling in on this thread which I've read with interest. I've also bought an unregistered lightning USA which is virtually identical to Kev's. It has matching numbers a65la10997 y. I'd like to know what year it is. The us title says 1970 but there isn't a date on the frame tag sticker only the stamped numbers(untapped) the vintage mcc dating gurus say It left the factory 5 Jan 1967 which concurs with bsa oc info posted online which says A65 LA relates to 1967. However, various clues on the bike indicate its later than 67 : 2 screws on metal tank badge; twin leading front brake; bsa 'watermark' on engine numbers tag. Bantam John (bsa parts specialist in uk) tells me the bike probably had a replacement bsa engine at some point with bsa dealer restamped engine number to match the frame.

Contributors to this thread suggest la65 -y relate to 1970 - apart from looking at parts on the bike itself which could have been changed over the years, I'd be interested to know whether mine is 67 or 70. Could someone explain please why la -y does not relate to 67 as indicated by bsa docs within uk?

Cheers

Ian


Sunbeam S7 Deluxe 1949
Honda CB750 K3 1972
Suzuki GT500 1977
BSA A65 Lightning LA Y 1970
#671521 - 10/19/16 3:54 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Quote:
Could someone explain please why la -y does not relate to 67 as indicated by bsa docs within uk?


The BSA owners club is UK focused and does not worry about what happened in the US despite the majority of BSA's output going to the US.

There is a really long thread on this board which explains more but can't find it. In short if it has a -Y but a 67 number but has 70 parts its a 70. There may have been a 1000 67 A65's that were made and had to be re-exported but there is more to the story than the BSAOC has on their website.

Just to confuse matters more there are 70 bikes stamped with a Y not -Y but that is a reference to extended warranty.

#671523 - 10/19/16 6:05 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Ian T]  
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Hi Ian,

Firstly, welcome to the Forum. smile

Originally Posted By Ian T
bought an unregistered lightning USA which is virtually identical to Kev's. It has matching numbers a65la10997 y. I'd like to know what year it is. The us title says 1970
Contributors to this thread suggest la65 -y relate to 1970
Could someone explain please why la -y does not relate to 67

Note there is a significant difference between "-Y" (Dash Y) and just "Y". The thread "kommando" couldn't find is http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=403236#Post403236, be prepared to be there a lo-on-ng time ... and note there will be short test afterwards. grin

Originally Posted By Ian T
various clues on the bike indicate its later than 67 : 2 screws on metal tank badge; twin leading front brake; bsa 'watermark' on engine numbers tag.

Are the engine numbers and "bsa 'watermark'" stamped into a 'pad' raised above the surrounding crankcase metal? Are the nuts holding down the barrel base to the crankcase 12-point rather than normal 6-point, does a 1/2"AF 12-point ring spanner fit (ignoring that the barrel material might be a bit close for just any spanner to fit completely), are the studs into the crankcase 3/8" o.d. and threaded UNF? If so, more clues it's more-likely '70 rather than '67.

Originally Posted By Ian T
the vintage mcc dating gurus say It left the factory 5 Jan 1967 which concurs with bsa oc info posted online which says A65 LA relates to 1967.
Bantam John (bsa parts specialist in uk) tells me the bike probably had a replacement bsa engine at some point with bsa dealer restamped engine number to match the frame.

As the saying goes, "Denial ain't only a river in Africa" ...

Hth.

Regards,

#671535 - 10/19/16 9:28 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Stuart]  
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Thanks for your replies guys.

OMG! I didn't realise all the discussion about LA Y bikes! How complicated. The answer to all your Q's, Stuart, are 'yes' therefore it looks as if my bike is a 1970 bike after all which concurs with the US title. I have actually applied to BSAOC dating officer for a dating letter so I will wait with interest. Hopefully thereafter I can start the uk registration process.

Thanks for your help guys. This looks like a great forum! I'm going to post a separate message about gearbox cluster removal...


Sunbeam S7 Deluxe 1949
Honda CB750 K3 1972
Suzuki GT500 1977
BSA A65 Lightning LA Y 1970
#671550 - 10/19/16 1:15 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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We need pictures, just so you know.

and welcome

So another Y bike, we will soon have enough for our own sub section bigt


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http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#671564 - 10/19/16 4:51 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Ian, if you take the seat off and look at the bolt mounting brackets, this will tell us a lot, 69/70 frames had different seat brackets to 67/68 and pre 67 had them different again.

Some 69/70 frames had fairing tubes welded to the headstock, this wasn't on earlier frames and all 69/70 frames were fitted with a swing arm which had bronze bushings and not rubber silent block bushes, the swing arm bolt was also solid where as the earlier ones were hollow.

As already mentioned, all 70 engines had a bsa embossed number block, as did most 69's but the very early 69's were on a raised block, but not machined flush or bsa stamped.


beerchug
#671746 - 10/21/16 6:29 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Allan Gill]  
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Here are a couple of shots of the frame. The front of the seat doesn't latch onto a part of the frame - I wonder if this has broken off?

Do these photos help identify the year?

Thanks guys


Sunbeam S7 Deluxe 1949
Honda CB750 K3 1972
Suzuki GT500 1977
BSA A65 Lightning LA Y 1970
#671747 - 10/21/16 6:32 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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3/8ths bihex barrel studs/nuts make it 1970.it will have a vertical clutch cable entry as well. The seat should have a pair of forks/ bracket at the front to engage with the horizontal bar at the rear end of the frame top tube.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#672322 - 10/25/16 1:56 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Top end should all be back together this weekend if I don't go to a Guzzi camp in Gloucester....


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#672328 - 10/25/16 3:31 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Ian T]  
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I can see the remnants of the front seat bracket in the picture. It either broke off or someone cut it off.
I've had several A65 with the Y and from all my research they are '69, '70 specification even though the serial number suggests it's a '67.


reliccycles.com
#672330 - 10/25/16 3:42 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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If you plan to put it together this coming weekend Kev, don't forget to anneal the gasket even when new, and cover it with copper cote both sides.
I hope the bottom of your head will be machined by SRM.
After you start riding, proper retorque is essential to keep your cylinders sealed.

Last edited by Adam M.; 10/25/16 4:05 pm.
#673086 - 11/01/16 12:36 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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My head having returned from SRM, was now ready to be fitted, and after a question asked in the competition section, I equipped myself with some copper sealant, and a pair of small o-rings, so I was ready to go.

Barrel and gasket prepared and ready for the head to be fitted..



Head looking good too..







bigt


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http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#673087 - 11/01/16 12:40 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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How do you guys torque the outer four head nuts, I can't fit a socket/torque wrench on these four, so have done them by "feel" using a spanner.


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1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#673088 - 11/01/16 12:45 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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You can buy a "crowfoot" open-end wrench that has a 3/8" or 1/2" drive hole on it, mount it at 90 degrees to the shaft of the torque wrench so that the overall length is correct, and torque it that way.

I don't bother, though ... "feel" has always worked well for me. Have never had a head leak.

Lannis


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#673089 - 11/01/16 12:48 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Get a 1/2" af ring spanner, weld a 1/2" drive adaptor to it use the wrench on this with the spanner at 90 degrees to the torque wrench.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#673117 - 11/01/16 4:40 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Looking good!


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Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
#673996 - 11/10/16 2:12 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Now where was I?

With the head all bolted down, and the rockers installed, it was time for some new SRM adjusters to be fitted...







Next on the list was refitting the exhaust system...








Now I have a couple of questions....

1. can someone tell me the thread size of the rocker cover head studs, the end that goes into the head. As I need to run a tap down the threads in the head.

2. I am after the part number for the oil tank drain/filter gasket.

Thanks.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#673997 - 11/10/16 2:21 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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argyll. scotland, uk
Centre studs are 1/4 BSF tapped in the ally.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#674020 - 11/10/16 4:36 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Bodger Offline
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Santa Barbara, Cal.
The pictures are well lit and in focus too, yay!

And the pipes are stock/original?

What is the latest opinions about the mushroom tappet adjusters?

Looking good kev!

#674142 - 11/11/16 7:05 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Adam M. Offline
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Mississauga, Ontario.
I'd use phenolic distance pieces between head and the carbs.
In town and in the traffic jam they can save your carbs from overheating.

#683578 - 02/03/17 5:50 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Kev.  Online Sick
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My little BSA has had to take a back seat for a while, I just can't find the correct forks for the bike, so it is just sitting on the bench until something turns up.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#683690 - 02/04/17 3:52 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Kev,

Originally Posted By Kev.
My little BSA has had to take a back seat for a while, I just can't find the correct forks for the bike,

Risking asking a silly question, you do know that '70 BSA forks are essentially the same as contemporary Triumph forks? The only really BSA-peculiar bits are the sliders; fit Triumph sliders - and ride the bike bigt - 'til the Beeza bits come along?

Hth.

Regards,

#683712 - 02/04/17 7:40 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Allan Gill Offline
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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Or leave the triumph sliders on and don't change them because they don't looks any different laughing


beerchug
#683719 - 02/04/17 8:30 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Allan Gill]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Allan,

Originally Posted By Allan Gill
Or leave the triumph sliders on and don't change them because they don't looks any different laughing

I did wonder ... I couldn't see any difference but, as most other '69/'70 forks part numbers are the same as Triumphs, I thought Small Heath must've given the sliders different part numbers for a reason I couldn't see ...?

Regards,

#683754 - 02/05/17 3:50 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Allan Gill Offline
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They could have their differences but as the wheel fits the same they look close enough for me not to be too worried if it was mine.


beerchug
#683827 - 02/05/17 4:41 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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I can't find Triumph ones either, I ave been looking. I have the correct wheel now with 8" twin leading brake. One will turn up.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#683901 - 02/06/17 8:44 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Kev,

Originally Posted By Kev.
I can't find Triumph ones either, I ave been looking.

confused

'70 BSA twins used the same stanchions as the singles, including the TR25 - Googling "97-3906" says they're down the road from you at Classic Motorcycle Spares.

The 97-3921/2 sliders are common to the entire '70 Triumph range and BSA's except the twins.

I'd use Triumph 650 springs.

All the seals, washers, etc. are common to both the Triumph and BSA ranges and thus widely available. When Googling several of the part numbers of the larger parts, both Burton Bike Bits and Hawkshaw usually come up. As well as them consider Grin, TMS, Yeomans and - just up the road from you - Reg Allen, most of whom do the large bits second-hand as well.

I.e. none of the Triumph bits are exactly rocking-horse poo ...

Hth.

Regards,

#684049 - 02/07/17 10:33 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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I have a 70 A65 front end laying around unneeded PM me if you want them. Its got stanchions but they are V rusty, the sliders should be useable.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#687841 - 03/12/17 8:03 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Quote
I have a 70 A65 front end laying around unneeded PM me if you want them. Its got stanchions but they are V rusty, the sliders should be useable.


Hi Gavin, I did not see this reply, it was just pointed out to me. Sorry I can't PM you your inbox is over limit?

Kevin.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#687862 - 03/12/17 9:30 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Engine is all bolted up now ready to go, I put some spacers between carbs and head today, bought some new cables at Kempton yesterday, close now, just the front end to get sorted. bought a Triumph front end from the bay, fitted new stanchions bushes etc, took it to the lockup to fit on the bike, but the stanchions don't fit the BSA yokes? Too loose in the lower yoke, and wrong taper for the top yoke. so now I have a set of Triumph forks I don't need. Just going around in circles with this whole front end situation.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#687925 - 03/13/17 3:47 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Kev,

Originally Posted by Kev.
bought a Triumph front end from the bay, fitted new stanchions bushes etc, took it to the lockup to fit on the bike, but the stanchions don't fit the BSA yokes? Too loose in the lower yoke, and wrong taper for the top yoke.

Certainly if you tried to fit "Triumph ... stanchions" in the current '67 lower yoke, yes, they will be too loose. And, in the recent thread, A65 Fork sliders different lengths, "kommando" posted that Triumph and BSA top yoke tapers are different.

Originally Posted by Kev.
Just going around in circles with this whole front end situation.

I appreciate that you might not have the interest to read many threads here, but the knowledge is available if you ask before you buy "from the bay"?

At worst, Gavin will be back in a few days (I think shift work stops him contributing for periods). As you posted, you've waited six months; a few more days is better than wasting your money on bits that won't fit? As the post before Gavin's says, the correct BSA stanchions were (still are?) available new not far from you? You're going to need these even if you buy Gavin's front end.

Regards,

#687955 - 03/13/17 10:14 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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PM sent to Kev regarding forks.
I no longer work/ retired but I am busy occasionally on sailing trips/ gardening.
The donor bike for the forks was a V low mileage 70L, it had smashed a lump off the gearbox when the chain snapped, I am fairly sure the Front end with the 8 inch TLS is original.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#687994 - 03/13/17 4:56 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Thanks Gavin & Stuart, help appreciated.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#690123 - 04/01/17 5:17 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Thanks to Gavin, I now have the correct forks for my 1970 "Y" bike, so time to get this ready for the summer.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#695943 - 05/20/17 8:04 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Kev.  Online Sick
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Making progress..... https://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com

more next week when the forks should be fitted bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#695960 - 05/20/17 9:45 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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D.Bachtel Online content
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SLO County, CA
Good job Kevin. I dig the blue Tygon lines. You'll get it on the road before the end of Summer for sure.
Fine looking motorcycle! What tires did you select, I don't recognize the tread?


Don in Nipomo


1956 Zundapp KS601EL
1960 Greeves Scottish/Hawkstone Velorex 560
1963 BSA Gold Star Spitfire
1964 Triumph T20SM
1965 BSA C15T
1966 BSA VE
1968 Bonham Tote Gote
1969 BSA VS
1970 BSA A65L (with a "Y")
1972 Husqvarna 450 WR
1986 Yamaha TT 225
1987 BMW K75C
#696018 - 05/21/17 7:53 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: D.Bachtel]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Cheers Don, the fuel line is Italian Ducati line, the tyres are Mitas dual sport enduro tyres


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#696019 - 05/21/17 8:10 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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D.Bachtel Online content
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I see, the MC 24 Invader 70/30 DOT approved and rated.
New to me but an attractive tread! I like 'em.

You'll be sure to tell us what you think of them.

Don in Nipomo

#698354 - 06/13/17 6:57 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Kev.  Online Sick
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Anybody got a good quality scan of the 69/70 wiring schematic they can send me?


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#698456 - 06/14/17 2:40 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Kev,

You have incoming.

Regards,

#698483 - 06/14/17 8:07 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Thanks Stuart


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



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