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#671175 - 10/16/16 2:25 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Royal Berkshire.
The lightning seems to have taken up residence on the bench right now, the whole front end is out, the head is away at SRM having a full on valve job, I was hoping the head may have been completed this weekend but not so. As can happen sometimes, I managed to break a piston ring fitting the barrel, and the broken piece of course dropped into the crank cases, and could not be seen. But some fishing around with a telescopic magnet found it in the bottom of the cases. So after again fitting a spare ring to the piston, and some help from Paul, I managed to get the refinished barrels in place, bolted down.



Next it was time to fit my new SRM magnetic sump kit, after removing the old studs I offered up the new gauze filter, only to find that it did not fit! it seems that SRM sent me out a kit for a B50 or other single, as the hole in the gauze was too small (8.5mm instead of 11.5mm) to go over the scavenger pipe. Luckily my old filter gauze was in very good condition, so I decided to use that rather than wait for a replacement from SRM.

Then it was just a case of bolting it all up to the underside of the motor.





bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



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#671520 - 10/19/16 3:42 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
Joined: Oct 2016
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Ian T Offline
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Ian T  Offline
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U.K. Midlands
Hi
I'm a newbie to this forum so hope it's ok muscling in on this thread which I've read with interest. I've also bought an unregistered lightning USA which is virtually identical to Kev's. It has matching numbers a65la10997 y. I'd like to know what year it is. The us title says 1970 but there isn't a date on the frame tag sticker only the stamped numbers(untapped) the vintage mcc dating gurus say It left the factory 5 Jan 1967 which concurs with bsa oc info posted online which says A65 LA relates to 1967. However, various clues on the bike indicate its later than 67 : 2 screws on metal tank badge; twin leading front brake; bsa 'watermark' on engine numbers tag. Bantam John (bsa parts specialist in uk) tells me the bike probably had a replacement bsa engine at some point with bsa dealer restamped engine number to match the frame.

Contributors to this thread suggest la65 -y relate to 1970 - apart from looking at parts on the bike itself which could have been changed over the years, I'd be interested to know whether mine is 67 or 70. Could someone explain please why la -y does not relate to 67 as indicated by bsa docs within uk?

Cheers

Ian


Sunbeam S7 Deluxe 1949
Honda CB750 K3 1972
Suzuki GT500 1977
BSA A65 Lightning LA Y 1970
#671521 - 10/19/16 3:54 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
Joined: Dec 2004
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kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,560
Scotland
Quote:
Could someone explain please why la -y does not relate to 67 as indicated by bsa docs within uk?


The BSA owners club is UK focused and does not worry about what happened in the US despite the majority of BSA's output going to the US.

There is a really long thread on this board which explains more but can't find it. In short if it has a -Y but a 67 number but has 70 parts its a 70. There may have been a 1000 67 A65's that were made and had to be re-exported but there is more to the story than the BSAOC has on their website.

Just to confuse matters more there are 70 bikes stamped with a Y not -Y but that is a reference to extended warranty.

#671523 - 10/19/16 6:05 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Ian T]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Ian,

Firstly, welcome to the Forum. smile

Originally Posted By Ian T
bought an unregistered lightning USA which is virtually identical to Kev's. It has matching numbers a65la10997 y. I'd like to know what year it is. The us title says 1970
Contributors to this thread suggest la65 -y relate to 1970
Could someone explain please why la -y does not relate to 67

Note there is a significant difference between "-Y" (Dash Y) and just "Y". The thread "kommando" couldn't find is http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=403236#Post403236, be prepared to be there a lo-on-ng time ... and note there will be short test afterwards. grin

Originally Posted By Ian T
various clues on the bike indicate its later than 67 : 2 screws on metal tank badge; twin leading front brake; bsa 'watermark' on engine numbers tag.

Are the engine numbers and "bsa 'watermark'" stamped into a 'pad' raised above the surrounding crankcase metal? Are the nuts holding down the barrel base to the crankcase 12-point rather than normal 6-point, does a 1/2"AF 12-point ring spanner fit (ignoring that the barrel material might be a bit close for just any spanner to fit completely), are the studs into the crankcase 3/8" o.d. and threaded UNF? If so, more clues it's more-likely '70 rather than '67.

Originally Posted By Ian T
the vintage mcc dating gurus say It left the factory 5 Jan 1967 which concurs with bsa oc info posted online which says A65 LA relates to 1967.
Bantam John (bsa parts specialist in uk) tells me the bike probably had a replacement bsa engine at some point with bsa dealer restamped engine number to match the frame.

As the saying goes, "Denial ain't only a river in Africa" ...

Hth.

Regards,

#671535 - 10/19/16 9:28 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Stuart]  
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Ian T Offline
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Ian T  Offline
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U.K. Midlands
Thanks for your replies guys.

OMG! I didn't realise all the discussion about LA Y bikes! How complicated. The answer to all your Q's, Stuart, are 'yes' therefore it looks as if my bike is a 1970 bike after all which concurs with the US title. I have actually applied to BSAOC dating officer for a dating letter so I will wait with interest. Hopefully thereafter I can start the uk registration process.

Thanks for your help guys. This looks like a great forum! I'm going to post a separate message about gearbox cluster removal...


Sunbeam S7 Deluxe 1949
Honda CB750 K3 1972
Suzuki GT500 1977
BSA A65 Lightning LA Y 1970
#671550 - 10/19/16 1:15 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Royal Berkshire.
We need pictures, just so you know.

and welcome

So another Y bike, we will soon have enough for our own sub section bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#671564 - 10/19/16 4:51 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
Joined: May 2013
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Allan Gill Offline
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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Ian, if you take the seat off and look at the bolt mounting brackets, this will tell us a lot, 69/70 frames had different seat brackets to 67/68 and pre 67 had them different again.

Some 69/70 frames had fairing tubes welded to the headstock, this wasn't on earlier frames and all 69/70 frames were fitted with a swing arm which had bronze bushings and not rubber silent block bushes, the swing arm bolt was also solid where as the earlier ones were hollow.

As already mentioned, all 70 engines had a bsa embossed number block, as did most 69's but the very early 69's were on a raised block, but not machined flush or bsa stamped.


beerchug
#671746 - 10/21/16 6:29 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Allan Gill]  
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Ian T Offline
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Here are a couple of shots of the frame. The front of the seat doesn't latch onto a part of the frame - I wonder if this has broken off?

Do these photos help identify the year?

Thanks guys


Sunbeam S7 Deluxe 1949
Honda CB750 K3 1972
Suzuki GT500 1977
BSA A65 Lightning LA Y 1970
#671747 - 10/21/16 6:32 am Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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argyll. scotland, uk
3/8ths bihex barrel studs/nuts make it 1970.it will have a vertical clutch cable entry as well. The seat should have a pair of forks/ bracket at the front to engage with the horizontal bar at the rear end of the frame top tube.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#672322 - 10/25/16 1:56 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Top end should all be back together this weekend if I don't go to a Guzzi camp in Gloucester....


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#672328 - 10/25/16 3:31 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Ian T]  
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Curmudgeon Offline
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Curmudgeon  Offline
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I can see the remnants of the front seat bracket in the picture. It either broke off or someone cut it off.
I've had several A65 with the Y and from all my research they are '69, '70 specification even though the serial number suggests it's a '67.


reliccycles.com
#672330 - 10/25/16 3:42 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Adam M. Offline
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If you plan to put it together this coming weekend Kev, don't forget to anneal the gasket even when new, and cover it with copper cote both sides.
I hope the bottom of your head will be machined by SRM.
After you start riding, proper retorque is essential to keep your cylinders sealed.

Last edited by Adam M.; 10/25/16 4:05 pm.
#673086 - 11/01/16 12:36 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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My head having returned from SRM, was now ready to be fitted, and after a question asked in the competition section, I equipped myself with some copper sealant, and a pair of small o-rings, so I was ready to go.

Barrel and gasket prepared and ready for the head to be fitted..



Head looking good too..







bigt


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#673087 - 11/01/16 12:40 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Kev.  Online Sick
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How do you guys torque the outer four head nuts, I can't fit a socket/torque wrench on these four, so have done them by "feel" using a spanner.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#673088 - 11/01/16 12:45 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Lannis Offline
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Central Virginia
You can buy a "crowfoot" open-end wrench that has a 3/8" or 1/2" drive hole on it, mount it at 90 degrees to the shaft of the torque wrench so that the overall length is correct, and torque it that way.

I don't bother, though ... "feel" has always worked well for me. Have never had a head leak.

Lannis


"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."
Voltaire
#673089 - 11/01/16 12:48 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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Get a 1/2" af ring spanner, weld a 1/2" drive adaptor to it use the wrench on this with the spanner at 90 degrees to the torque wrench.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#673117 - 11/01/16 4:40 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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GrandPaul Online content
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Looking good!


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
#673996 - 11/10/16 2:12 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Kev.  Online Sick
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Royal Berkshire.
Now where was I?

With the head all bolted down, and the rockers installed, it was time for some new SRM adjusters to be fitted...







Next on the list was refitting the exhaust system...








Now I have a couple of questions....

1. can someone tell me the thread size of the rocker cover head studs, the end that goes into the head. As I need to run a tap down the threads in the head.

2. I am after the part number for the oil tank drain/filter gasket.

Thanks.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#673997 - 11/10/16 2:21 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
Joined: Aug 2001
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gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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argyll. scotland, uk
Centre studs are 1/4 BSF tapped in the ally.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#674020 - 11/10/16 4:36 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Bodger Offline
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Bodger  Offline
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Santa Barbara, Cal.
The pictures are well lit and in focus too, yay!

And the pipes are stock/original?

What is the latest opinions about the mushroom tappet adjusters?

Looking good kev!

#674142 - 11/11/16 7:05 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Adam M. Offline
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Adam M.  Offline
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Mississauga, Ontario.
I'd use phenolic distance pieces between head and the carbs.
In town and in the traffic jam they can save your carbs from overheating.

#683578 - 02/03/17 5:50 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Kev. Online sick
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Kev.  Online Sick
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Royal Berkshire.
My little BSA has had to take a back seat for a while, I just can't find the correct forks for the bike, so it is just sitting on the bench until something turns up.


http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Norton Special
1963 BSA Super Rocket
1970 BSA A65 Lightning
1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado x2
2009 Triumph Bonneville



#683690 - 02/04/17 3:52 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Hi Kev,

Originally Posted By Kev.
My little BSA has had to take a back seat for a while, I just can't find the correct forks for the bike,

Risking asking a silly question, you do know that '70 BSA forks are essentially the same as contemporary Triumph forks? The only really BSA-peculiar bits are the sliders; fit Triumph sliders - and ride the bike bigt - 'til the Beeza bits come along?

Hth.

Regards,

#683712 - 02/04/17 7:40 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Kev.]  
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Allan Gill Offline
Allan Gill  Offline



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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Or leave the triumph sliders on and don't change them because they don't looks any different laughing


beerchug
#683719 - 02/04/17 8:30 pm Re: 1970 Lightning "Y" Bike Project... [Re: Allan Gill]  
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Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Scotland
Hi Allan,

Originally Posted By Allan Gill
Or leave the triumph sliders on and don't change them because they don't looks any different laughing

I did wonder ... I couldn't see any difference but, as most other '69/'70 forks part numbers are the same as Triumphs, I thought Small Heath must've given the sliders different part numbers for a reason I couldn't see ...?

Regards,

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