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1967 Greeves Challenger #661472
07/21/16 11:01 am
07/21/16 11:01 am
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 50
Akron ohio
J
jawthree Offline OP

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jawthree  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 50
Akron ohio
I bought this 1967 Greeves Challenger at Mid Ohio this year. The bike runs well. I believe it is original paint on the tank. Forks, air box, wheels, tires, frame, seat, all looks original. From pictures on the web it looks like something was done to the pipe. If there are any Greeves people on the site can you take a look at what I bought and tell me if there are things I need to change. Like fenders, number pates, gas cap, exhaust, etc..

I think it is a low miles original but I am not a Greeves owner until now. I just thought it looked good and it was British is why I bought it.

Thank you for looking







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Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: jawthree] #661477
07/21/16 11:18 am
07/21/16 11:18 am
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,140
Netherlands
Peter R Offline

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Peter R  Offline

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,140
Netherlands
Nice bike mate, congrats bigt Very different from the usual BSA/Triumph/Norton fare we usually see on this forum, but I surely like it.


Peter.
1974 Commando 850
1972 Trident T150T
1961 Goldie DBD34
1969 Benelli 250 sport special
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: jawthree] #661485
07/21/16 1:04 pm
07/21/16 1:04 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,876
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline
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GrandPaul  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,876
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Definitely a customized pipe, unsure whether it would negatively affect power.

Nifty VMX'er.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: jawthree] #661486
07/21/16 1:07 pm
07/21/16 1:07 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,491
Elburn, Ill. USA
I
Irish Swede Offline
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Irish Swede  Offline
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I
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,491
Elburn, Ill. USA
You better start it first, to see if it burns oil.

Hahahaha!

Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: Irish Swede] #661552
07/22/16 6:04 am
07/22/16 6:04 am
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 76
Michigan
dodgeboy57 Offline
BritBike Forum member
dodgeboy57  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 76
Michigan
Other opinions to the contrary, your exhaust is the original to your Challenger MX5. A quick google image search for 'Greeves MX5' will bear this out.



The front fender brace and alloy fender are standard Greeves. The 'Challenger' sticker/decal is missing from the airbox.

The number plates might be the only non-original bits on the bike. It appears that oval black plates were standard.

I hope you enjoy your Greeves, which had a major role in the 2-stroke revolution in the mid-60s.

And welcome to 'The Greeves Owners and Breeders Assn'. Frank Conely has passed on to the land of pipers but I'm sure we can find you a shirt.

http://www.greevesguru.com/products.html



45 M20
56 Ariel HS
56 Ariel HT5
(3x)57 B34 "Alloy Clipper" (Tri-Scr-ISDT)
58 A7 Bitza
61 Greeves Hawkstone
63 A10 GSS
63 Greeves MDS
65 Otter B40WD Trls
65 M&M B44(Miller frame/Dick Mann eng)
67 Greeves MX5 ChallengerTT
71 B50/570cc MX
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: jawthree] #661561
07/22/16 10:37 am
07/22/16 10:37 am
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 50
Akron ohio
J
jawthree Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
jawthree  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 50
Akron ohio
Thank you for the feedback.

I will order the decals today. That might be the least I have ever had to do for one of my British bikes.

And no oil leaks. I might get spoiled.

Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: jawthree] #661572
07/22/16 2:04 pm
07/22/16 2:04 pm
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 76
Michigan
dodgeboy57 Offline
BritBike Forum member
dodgeboy57  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 76
Michigan
Here's a quick check of some of your questions and a bit more data.

Gas cap - stock aluminum 'monza' cap.
Front fender/brace - stock
Color (colour) - appears correct. Seat base should match
Forks - original Cerianis w/ Timken tapered roller bearings
Rear shocks - Girlings.
Tires - Dunlop or Avon.

While the road race 2 strokes were leading the development of expansion chambers way back in the 50's, Scramblers and other 2 stroke applications weren't. It wasn't until the QUB model that Greeves had a 'tuned' pipe on their bikes, courtesy of Dr. Gordon Blair and Queen's University Belfast (QUB).

The transmission is a solid shifter and not as weak as those found on the 1965 MX1. If you decide to race it 'in anger' you should be able to give the other early 'Classic' bikes a run for their money.

Don't forget to order a Tee Shirt. Very few Greeves owners end up owning just one!

As far as the pipe goes, you can spend some $$$ and get a more modern example made, but most vintage rules limit the design of the pipe to the era. Back when I was racing my poor old Hawkstone against C15s and Ducs, a fellow competitor came over to give my Greeves a closer look. He suggested I replace the 'Blooey' pipe (just the front megaphone - no reverse cone and stinger - and REAL loud) with a more modern chamber. I casually replied that if I wanted an Elsinore, I'd buy an Elsinore! His C15 was a trick as they got, but a virtually stock 1960 Greeves Hawkstone waxed his butt, in the mud.


Originally Posted By jawthree
Thank you for the feedback.

I will order the decals today. That might be the least I have ever had to do for one of my British bikes.

And no oil leaks. I might get spoiled.

Last edited by dodgeboy57; 07/22/16 2:12 pm.

45 M20
56 Ariel HS
56 Ariel HT5
(3x)57 B34 "Alloy Clipper" (Tri-Scr-ISDT)
58 A7 Bitza
61 Greeves Hawkstone
63 A10 GSS
63 Greeves MDS
65 Otter B40WD Trls
65 M&M B44(Miller frame/Dick Mann eng)
67 Greeves MX5 ChallengerTT
71 B50/570cc MX
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: dodgeboy57] #661577
07/22/16 3:32 pm
07/22/16 3:32 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,692
gastonia nc
R
raf940 Offline
BritBike Forum member
raf940  Offline
BritBike Forum member
R
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,692
gastonia nc


1972 Triumph T120
1968 BSA A65
1968 MGB Roadster
1979 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
1969 Honda Mini Trail
1939 farmall f30 tractor
2004 Honda Shadow Aero
1972 BSA Thunderbolt
1975 yamaha xs650b
1972 Norton commando project
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: jawthree] #661612
07/23/16 8:39 am
07/23/16 8:39 am
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 76
Michigan
dodgeboy57 Offline
BritBike Forum member
dodgeboy57  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 76
Michigan
Originally Posted By jawthree
Thank you for the feedback.

I will order the decals today. That might be the least I have ever had to do for one of my British bikes.

And no oil leaks. I might get spoiled.


You might want to think about installing more aggressive foot-pegs if you intend to race your Greeves. Those stock pegs can get REAL slick in the wet.


45 M20
56 Ariel HS
56 Ariel HT5
(3x)57 B34 "Alloy Clipper" (Tri-Scr-ISDT)
58 A7 Bitza
61 Greeves Hawkstone
63 A10 GSS
63 Greeves MDS
65 Otter B40WD Trls
65 M&M B44(Miller frame/Dick Mann eng)
67 Greeves MX5 ChallengerTT
71 B50/570cc MX
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: dodgeboy57] #661613
07/23/16 9:13 am
07/23/16 9:13 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,309
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
BritBike Forum member
triton thrasher  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,309
scotland
Originally Posted By dodgeboy57

You might want to think about installing more aggressive foot-pegs if you intend to race your Greeves. Those stock pegs can get REAL slick in the wet.


The ends look a bit sharp too. Should they have some sort of rubbers over them?


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: triton thrasher] #661619
07/23/16 11:57 am
07/23/16 11:57 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,404
SLO County, CA
D.Bachtel Offline
BritBike Forum member
D.Bachtel  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,404
SLO County, CA
Originally Posted By triton thrasher
Originally Posted By dodgeboy57

You might want to think about installing more aggressive foot-pegs if you intend to race your Greeves. Those stock pegs can get REAL slick in the wet.


The ends look a bit sharp too. Should they have some sort of rubbers over them?


More likely they had additional spikey welds applied to grip the boots. Mine were done with stick.

Early Greeves were fairly implemental if not agricultural in design.
The later models were a bit more refined.

Greeves Day out at Pozo is an event I do my best to attend every year.

Don in Nipomo


1956 Zundapp KS601EL
1960 Greeves Scottish/Hawkstone Velorex 560
1963 BSA Gold Star Spitfire
1964 Triumph T20SM
1965 BSA C15T
1966 BSA VE
1968 Bonham Tote Gote
1969 BSA VS
1970 BSA A65L (with a "Y")
1972 Husqvarna 450 WR
1986 Yamaha TT 225
1987 BMW K75C
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: triton thrasher] #661671
07/24/16 11:22 am
07/24/16 11:22 am
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 76
Michigan
dodgeboy57 Offline
BritBike Forum member
dodgeboy57  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 76
Michigan
MX/Scramble rules usually require non rubber 'pegs'. Flattrack/TT/dirtrack rules usually require rubber covered pegs.

Early Greeves scrambler pegs (Hawkstone) were solid bar stock with 'zits' welded on. Talk about slick and dangerous! When Greeves moved to folding pegs, they fabricated them from flat stock and then welded 'zits' on the flat bits. Oddly enough, they don't work that well in the wet.

Current MX/Trials pegs are more aggressive and are self cleaning since they are usually an open 'U' or something like that.

Many Greeves were used in Desert racing and they were perfect for that. They also dominated Eastern Enduros back in the 60's.

One even doubled as a Harley with Mert Lawwill riding it in On Any Sunday.


45 M20
56 Ariel HS
56 Ariel HT5
(3x)57 B34 "Alloy Clipper" (Tri-Scr-ISDT)
58 A7 Bitza
61 Greeves Hawkstone
63 A10 GSS
63 Greeves MDS
65 Otter B40WD Trls
65 M&M B44(Miller frame/Dick Mann eng)
67 Greeves MX5 ChallengerTT
71 B50/570cc MX
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: dodgeboy57] #661738
07/25/16 11:10 am
07/25/16 11:10 am
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 424
UK
D
Dibnah Offline
BritBike Forum member
Dibnah  Offline
BritBike Forum member
D
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 424
UK
In the UK we have the "Greeves Classic Scrambles Championship", races with just Greeves.

Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: dodgeboy57] #663141
08/07/16 9:45 am
08/07/16 9:45 am
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,876
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline
BritBike Forum member
GrandPaul  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,876
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Originally Posted By dodgeboy57
Other opinions to the contrary, your exhaust is the original to your Challenger MX5. A quick google image search for 'Greeves MX5' will bear this out.






I'm not challenging your assertion, but the pipe in the original photo, and the pipe in the photo you posted, are clearly different.

Last edited by GrandPaul; 08/07/16 9:46 am.

GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: jawthree] #663243
08/08/16 4:30 am
08/08/16 4:30 am
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 77
Scotland
A
al jam Offline
BritBike Forum member
al jam  Offline
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 77
Scotland
Great looking bike, looks like everything's as it should be. I had an MX3 Challenger and it was a fun bike. I've got pretty good quality pdf's of the service manual, parts and engine booklets if you're interested.

The exhaust looks original



1958 Triton
1958 Triumph 650 Speed Twin
1958 Velocette Viper
1959 Norton 650SS bitsa
1961 BSA Bantam D1
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: al jam] #663584
08/11/16 10:07 am
08/11/16 10:07 am
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,876
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline
BritBike Forum member
GrandPaul  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,876
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Originally Posted By al jam
The exhaust looks original (parts book photo)

Now THAT, I can agree with.

I like the leading-link front suspended Griffons, earlier models. I always thought they were cool, this is as close as I ever got to owning one...



GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: 1967 Greeves Challenger [Re: GrandPaul] #664381
08/18/16 12:59 pm
08/18/16 12:59 pm
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,904
Ohio
R
Rickman Offline
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Rickman  Offline
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R
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,904
Ohio
And I've heard some stories about how much better those LL front ends survived desert sudden elevations....


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