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18CS Project #650680
04/29/16 5:02 pm
04/29/16 5:02 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
swooshdave Offline OP
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swooshdave  Offline OP
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Portland, Oregon

Several years ago I bought this Cagiva but never could get it running right. The previous owner mentioned he wouldn't mind getting it back from me.


So at the recent vintage bike show I see he has this AJS so I offer to swap the bikes. He gets the Cagiva and I end up with ANOTHER project. Fortunately for both of us he agrees.








This last box is fully of freshly chromed parts. Unfortunately this includes the oil tank, which I think should be black.


Frame Number?


Magneto

Any idea what the tank is worth? It's been nicely chromed.

I'd like to make a trials bike out of this pile and could sell of some of the parts to do so.

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Re: 18CS Project [Re: swooshdave] #650861
05/01/16 7:15 am
05/01/16 7:15 am
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 122
Armidale ,Australia
Matchman62 Offline

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Matchman62  Offline

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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 122
Armidale ,Australia
Hi,
Do you know if the tank is original or is it a reproduction from India?

Re: 18CS Project [Re: swooshdave] #651108
05/02/16 5:08 pm
05/02/16 5:08 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
Don M. Offline
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Don M.  Offline
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Posts: 586
California
Where to start? The bike in the photos is a bitsa. The frame is a 1956 oompetition type, unique to that year. The serial no. is consistent with 1956 completion bikes, AJS 16C, 18CS, & Matchless G3C, G80CS. As the frame number sequence was shared by other models, only the AJS&Matchless OC Dating Officer has the records to correctly identify it. The forks appear the be the extended travel type first used by the factory in 1963 although we colonials were modifying the to that specification years earlier, in fact the factory long travel is a direct copy of our modification.

The engine is a 1954 AJS 500CC long stroke touring type, but the 1956 CS models had the new short stroke engine.

The tank is not a competition type, but a touring version used up to 1956. Correct tanks are scarce so you may have to get a reproduction in aluminum.

I am very familiar with the scramblers & will help all I can. Cheers! Don

Re: 18CS Project [Re: Matchman62] #651466
05/04/16 11:25 pm
05/04/16 11:25 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
swooshdave Offline OP
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swooshdave  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By Matchman62
Hi,
Do you know if the tank is original or is it a reproduction from India?


I believe it's original. I can look more carefully later.

Re: 18CS Project [Re: Don M.] #651467
05/04/16 11:28 pm
05/04/16 11:28 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
swooshdave Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
swooshdave  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By Don M.
Where to start? The bike in the photos is a bitsa. The frame is a 1956 oompetition type, unique to that year. The serial no. is consistent with 1956 completion bikes, AJS 16C, 18CS, & Matchless G3C, G80CS. As the frame number sequence was shared by other models, only the AJS&Matchless OC Dating Officer has the records to correctly identify it. The forks appear the be the extended travel type first used by the factory in 1963 although we colonials were modifying the to that specification years earlier, in fact the factory long travel is a direct copy of our modification.

The engine is a 1954 AJS 500CC long stroke touring type, but the 1956 CS models had the new short stroke engine.

The tank is not a competition type, but a touring version used up to 1956. Correct tanks are scarce so you may have to get a reproduction in aluminum.

I am very familiar with the scramblers & will help all I can. Cheers! Don


My plan is to make a trials bike so I'll look to sell off all of the road bike parts.

Can I assume I can just bolt on the alloy barrel?

Re: 18CS Project [Re: swooshdave] #651576
05/05/16 2:55 pm
05/05/16 2:55 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
Don M. Offline
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Don M.  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
There are several differences between competition engines & touring although the look similar. 1954 touring had cast iron long stroke flywheels & The iron barrel was held on by short studs holding a flange at the bottom. The head was fastened by four bolts. 1954 comp engines had mild steel flywheels & long, through studs that held the aluminum barrel & head with four sleeve nuts.

1956 touring engines are similar to the 1954 but 1956 comp was similar to 1954 but had short stroke flywheels, larger barrel with pushrods in cast-in tunnels & much wide spacing of the studs. All short stoke parts are scarce & pricy. Cheers! Don.

Re: 18CS Project [Re: Don M.] #651621
05/05/16 7:23 pm
05/05/16 7:23 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
swooshdave Offline OP
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swooshdave  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
It's trials so peak power really isn't an issue. I assume the long stroke is actually preferred for the slow stuff?

I'm going to see if the guy I got the stuff from has the CS engine and will swap. I think he just threw stuff together without thinking about what was what.

Re: 18CS Project [Re: swooshdave] #651741
05/06/16 1:51 pm
05/06/16 1:51 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
Don M. Offline
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Don M.  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
The early trials were 350cc so the 500cc touring would work well, just a few pounds heaver but the weight is down low. There are a lot of parts around for the touring engines. Cheers! Don/

Re: 18CS Project [Re: swooshdave] #651758
05/06/16 3:35 pm
05/06/16 3:35 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
swooshdave Offline OP
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swooshdave  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
What I don't get is why would someone chose the 350 over the 500? Isn't the engine the same size and weight?

Re: 18CS Project [Re: swooshdave] #651779
05/06/16 6:37 pm
05/06/16 6:37 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,972
Oztralia
R
Rohan Online content
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Rohan  Online Content
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Posts: 1,972
Oztralia
In trials its the plonking around avoiding and hopping over all the obstacles and tricky terrain.
Having a bigger engine doesn't help one little bit in this quest...
And, it was said that the 500 engine didn't plonk down as low as the 350 could,
nor would it rev up as easily.

The 350 was just as fast on the road bits too, unless you went all out.
And, it cost less. Never underestimate this factor on a skint buying public... ?

Re: 18CS Project [Re: Rohan] #651918
05/08/16 2:08 am
05/08/16 2:08 am
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
swooshdave Offline OP
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swooshdave  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By Rohan
In trials its the plonking around avoiding and hopping over all the obstacles and tricky terrain.
Having a bigger engine doesn't help one little bit in this quest...
And, it was said that the 500 engine didn't plonk down as low as the 350 could,
nor would it rev up as easily.

The 350 was just as fast on the road bits too, unless you went all out.
And, it cost less. Never underestimate this factor on a skint buying public... ?




There were a couple spots where a little extra power got me where I needed to get. Of course it could just be compensating for my lack of skill.

Last edited by swooshdave; 05/08/16 2:10 am.
Re: 18CS Project [Re: swooshdave] #651938
05/08/16 5:52 am
05/08/16 5:52 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,028
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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Posts: 7,028
scotland
Originally Posted By swooshdave
What I don't get is why would someone chose the 350 over the 500? Isn't the engine the same size and weight?


A road bike?

For fuel economy, lower price, cheaper insurance, probably cheaper tax, easier starting even.

Back then many riders would say a 500cc solo was too much and only some sort of fancy Dan would ride one.

Nowadays, the 350 is a bit slow on the open road.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: 18CS Project [Re: triton thrasher] #651954
05/08/16 8:25 am
05/08/16 8:25 am
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
swooshdave Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
swooshdave  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By triton thrasher
Originally Posted By swooshdave
What I don't get is why would someone chose the 350 over the 500? Isn't the engine the same size and weight?


A road bike?

For fuel economy, lower price, cheaper insurance, probably cheaper tax, easier starting even.

Back then many riders would say a 500cc solo was too much and only some sort of fancy Dan would ride one.

Nowadays, the 350 is a bit slow on the open road.


No, for trials.

Re: 18CS Project [Re: swooshdave] #651957
05/08/16 8:47 am
05/08/16 8:47 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,028
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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Posts: 7,028
scotland
For trials, people may have stuck with a 350 because that's what everyone else had.

They were very resistant to change. People were suspicious of sprung frames and lightweight bikes, for instance.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: 18CS Project [Re: swooshdave] #652036
05/09/16 12:02 am
05/09/16 12:02 am
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
swooshdave Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
swooshdave  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
Or perhaps the guys riding trials back then were more in shape than some modern amateur riders and the extra hp wasn't needed. sick

Re: 18CS Project [Re: Don M.] #661592
07/22/16 9:20 pm
07/22/16 9:20 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
swooshdave Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
swooshdave  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By Don M.
There are several differences between competition engines & touring although the look similar. 1954 touring had cast iron long stroke flywheels & The iron barrel was held on by short studs holding a flange at the bottom. The head was fastened by four bolts. 1954 comp engines had mild steel flywheels & long, through studs that held the aluminum barrel & head with four sleeve nuts.

1956 touring engines are similar to the 1954 but 1956 comp was similar to 1954 but had short stroke flywheels, larger barrel with pushrods in cast-in tunnels & much wide spacing of the studs. All short stoke parts are scarce & pricy. Cheers! Don.


Ok, I got another barrel and head for the project. I believe it's a 58 alloy head and iron barrel. Will it fit the 54 bottom end?


Re: 18CS Project [Re: swooshdave] #661632
07/23/16 6:35 pm
07/23/16 6:35 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,972
Oztralia
R
Rohan Online content
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Rohan  Online Content
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R
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,972
Oztralia
Originally Posted By swooshdave


Ok, I got another barrel and head for the project. I believe it's a 58 alloy head and iron barrel. Will it fit the 54 bottom end?


It should.

But from that angle of photograph, we can't actually see that its a 500, or that its iron, so we'll reserve judgement until all is revealed... !


Moderated by  Matchman62 


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