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#658455 - 06/27/16 8:54 pm Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: chaterlea25]  
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22
Vynette Offline
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Vynette  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22
Queensland Australia
Thanks to geordie, gavin and chaterlea25 for your advice and suggestions.

So as not to damage the cases, the attachment of an external plate is a great idea. But bureaucracy is rampant in Queensland. Because vehicles used in the commission of a crime have had their various identification numbers removed in different ways, even drilled out, we would have to convince them that the engine number - can't imagine what that should be - couldn't be removed easily.

It would be so simple if they would just accept the the 66 16 80 as the engine number. I'm thinking that they may be willing to do so if the frame number was also included as part of the ID. We'll just have to see what they say when the time comes.

Thanks for your suggestions.

BSA Gold Star eBay items

BSA Gold Star forum This board is dedicated to BSA Gold Star motorcycles.

#658456 - 06/27/16 8:58 pm Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Vynette]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 185
geordie Offline
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geordie  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 185
Blue Mountains, Sydney Austral...
Back in the day BMC car engines were brought to Australia (cars were assembled here using parts from Britain) with engine numbers on a riveted plate, Australian authorities deemed it was susceptible to tampering so the plates were removed and the number stamped directly into the engine block. When the factory imported the motor the original number was restamped into the block. My dad imported his 65 Morris Cooper S here and had to remove the plate and apply for a new number, or police number as they were called. I would guess this is the legally correct way to do this still but you will not end up with the Gold star prefix


58 goldstar
74 commando
70 Thunderbolt
81 Darmah
#658506 - 06/28/16 9:50 am Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Vynette]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,152
Swan Offline
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Swan  Offline

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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,152
Winona, MN
Vynette,

Before you get too deep in to your restoration, contact the BSA Owners Club UK to request the BSA factory dispatch records for your frame number. This certificate will tell you the serial number of the original motor when your bike left the factory. If your original motor was damaged beyond repair and these are in fact replacement cases, it may be possible for you to register your bike with its original (missing) engine serial number with this documentation. I would not however stamp the original number in to your blank cases, but rather carry paperwork with your bike documenting this fact or use a government supplied registration plate riveted to your bike as suggested. Here is my dispatch record (serial numbers partially redacted):


There were challenges when I registered my Triton because the Norton frame was missing one character of its serial number so I had to go through a long process of apply for a state issued VIN tag, had the bike inspected and my local department of motor vehicles, and they affixed a new vin number on a plate riveted to the frame.

Good luck and post your progress.

Last edited by Swan; 06/28/16 10:00 am.

1966 Triton
1962 BSA DBD34 Gold Star
1966 Triumph Bonneville
#658513 - 06/28/16 10:40 am Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Vynette]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
Scotland
Quote:
This certificate will tell you the serial number of the original motor when your bike left the factory.


This will not work, the BSA club rightly will refuse to give the matching engine number where no engine number has been supplied or mismatching numbers have been supplied. This is to stop people finding out the matching engine number so they can then fabricate a matching numbers bike from non matching parts.

Note the comment about still be fitted with original number, if they did not match it would instead tell you the model and year of the engine but give no clue as to what the number should be.

#658612 - 06/29/16 3:32 am Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Vynette]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 923
M Shearer Offline
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M Shearer  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 923
Perth. Wild West Downunder.
If it was me and you were able to find out the correct engine number, and I'm not saying you can or you can't. I would stamp it DB 34 GS ####-R.
The R indicating that the cases are replacements.

Last edited by M Shearer; 06/29/16 4:54 am.

Mark F.
'52 ZB34 Gold Star.
'65 Lightning Rocket.
'74 Roadster Commando.



#658715 - 06/29/16 6:47 pm Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: kommando]  
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22
Vynette Offline
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Vynette  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22
Queensland Australia
Thanks Swan and kommando

I'm going to write to the owners club anyway just to see what information they can give me. For instance, I'm still not sure just what model/model combo we have. The Owners club list gives the following for our frame number sequence beginning at C B32 1501:

1955
500cc
BB34GS 2001

1955
500cc
CB34GS 501

1955
500cc
DB34GS 501

So, was the original engine a BB, a CB, or a DB?

KerryW thought they were Clubman parts with a DB head.

#658716 - 06/29/16 6:50 pm Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: M Shearer]  
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22
Vynette Offline
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Vynette  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22
Queensland Australia
Thanks Mark. When we find out whether the original engine was a BB, a CB, or a DB then we could go with your suggestion about the number plus the "R" for replacement. Sounds good.

#658742 - 06/30/16 1:04 am Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Vynette]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,210
Kerry W Offline
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Kerry W  Offline
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Posts: 1,210
Middle East,
My Clubmans suggestions as based on the Clubmans bits with the bike, but writing to the GSOC in the UK will tell you exactly how it was dispatched, when, what model it was and to whom. There might even be an engine test certificate available.

As far as stamping the cases goes, if that's what you need to do to make it registrable for the road, then the suggestion of the suffix -R would be my choice, and to make no bones about the history to any future purchaser.


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
#660518 - 07/13/16 8:16 pm Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Vynette]  
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Marcos Dominguez Offline
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Marcos Dominguez  Offline
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Posts: 8
Espaņa
Hi There, I am from NW of Spain where rains like in the uk , new in the forum and iīm looking for identification of my engine and frame.
I am trying to make a scrambler BB34 but would like to know if the engine could be a real gold star. The engine went to Spain in the 60īs ,Franco era , so that illegally imported probably true Portugal. In that period , the only way to legalize was to use a frame number and engine number of a similar bsa from the 30īs (when imports were legal). Here I am with an engine cases stamped over the originals with HM 22 1902 6-R-1604 . These engine numbers donīt say anything to me...
The cases are stamped in the front with the number 66 1658 and then 01 in both left and right. Rockers are 65-1506, head is stamped 65-1502 3132 and AM. By the way , the frame I have is CB31-10587, is it posible to know if this frame was a 350 or a 500cc and date it?
I have seen all these numbers in the my copy of the Charles Falco gold star buyers companion but I need more help to know what I have.
Supone to be a BB34 gold star?? Is it posible to prove it is a gold star without the original engine numbers?
(please , excuse me if my english is not good enough )
I really thanks in advance for any welcome information
Marcos

#660532 - 07/13/16 10:15 pm Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Vynette]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,974
Magnetoman Online content
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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,974
U.S.
Originally Posted By Marcos Dominguez
The cases are stamped in the front with the number 66 1658 and then 01 in both left and right. Rockers are 65-1506, head is stamped 65-1502 3132 and AM. ... Supone to be a BB34 gold star??
66 1658 means the cases are from either a ZB or BB Gold Star. 01 is an arbitrary case mating code -- the fact the same number is on both halves means they were machined as a matching pair.
65-1502 is a BB Clubman head.

There's a boss at the 2:00 position on the drive side engine case. If it is drilled the case is a ZB (or a BB that was later drilled for some reason), but if it's undrilled it is from a very small number of late ZB engines, or else from a BB.

So, it's definitely a Gold Star, and the information above should let you determine if it's a ZB or BB.

Originally Posted By Marcos Dominguez
By the way , the frame I have is CB31-10587, is it posible to know if this frame was a 350 or a 500cc and date it?
Google the BSA Owners Club and you will find there how to make use of their dating service to determine when that frame was shipped and in what configuration. However, the 350 and 500 frames were identical. Maybe you already know this, but CB31 is not a prefix that was used on Gold Stars (although, the Owners Club dating service will tell you if it made it into a Gold Star as an exception).

Originally Posted By Marcos Dominguez
Is it posible to prove it is a gold star without the original engine numbers?
The question is, who do you want to prove it to? If you wanted to prove it to me, showing me the engine along with the relevant pages in 'The Gold Star Buyers Companion' would be enough. If you need to prove it to a Spanish government agency in order to get the name "Gold Star" printed on official ownership papers, I don't know how that is done.

#660550 - 07/14/16 1:49 am Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Vynette]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
Scotland
This engine number has been asked about in 2011.

http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84850

The requestor was in Paris and they said the numbers were on the frame and engine.




#660563 - 07/14/16 7:05 am Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Vynette]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 765
Bodger Offline
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Bodger  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 765
Santa Barbara, Cal.
and a picture, with that, good sleuthing kommando

http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/attac...mp;d=1302763677

and I see the heavy gearbox we were talking about on another thread.

Very nice looking!

#660666 - 07/14/16 7:39 pm Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Marcos Dominguez Offline
BritBike Forum member
Marcos Dominguez  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Espaņa
Hello Magnetoman,
It is nice to find people so well informed. First of all thank you very much for all this information.
The cases have a boss at 2 :00 position and it is not drilled but has like a circle in the front maybe due to the die cast...I donīt know how to add a picture..
So that means it is a BB gold star? If yes I guess it should be late 53 or 54?
I think with this data I can demonstrate to the engeneer of the historical vehicles that this is a gold star engine , in order to make new documents,now I have not any. The problem is that they told me I have to stamp a number in the engine, and I really donīt know what number to stamp as I
The difficult is to see if the frame could be also of a gold star , I donīt know where I have read that some CB31 were fitted with gold star engines..
Can I ask to BSAOC or do I have to be a member?
I have another frame I think BB31 if I am not wrong (I will check tomorrow)

Another question, what are the difference or the specifications of a clubman , compared with a standard one?
Thanks Magnetoman

#660670 - 07/14/16 7:50 pm Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: Bodger]  
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Marcos Dominguez Offline
BritBike Forum member
Marcos Dominguez  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Espaņa
Hello Bodger
this is my engineĄĄ laughing
I bought separated the engine and a frame but not this bike .
I am sure the engine was fitted in this bike but the owner stripped the bsa to sell separated the engine.
I bought it in Spain very close to the Portuguese border.
The numbers I said are stamped in the cases of the engine over the original number where it is difficult but you can see to dots and half G or O or 0 in the midle of the case.
Thanks for the post
Marcos

#660671 - 07/14/16 7:58 pm Re: Need help with possible Goldstar identification [Re: kommando]  
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Marcos Dominguez Offline
BritBike Forum member
Marcos Dominguez  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Espaņa
Hello Kommando,
It seems that this bsa was going around europe for years smile
the previous owner has many british bikes projects for sale here in NW of Spain, near Vigo and he told me the old owner in the 60īs may stamp the engine number to match the old bsa frame number... it make sense.
So finally I have a gold star engine , looking for a frame....

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