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replica pricing #657627
06/20/16 10:40 am
06/20/16 10:40 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,139
Lucan ON Canada
J
jfligg Offline OP
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jfligg  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,139
Lucan ON Canada
Hello Guys
I am wondering what kind of value to put on a 1950 ZB Goldie replica. It is a completely restored machine. The bike has all the right bits on it. No tack. It has what I believe to be replacement cases. How does the group feel that this effects the value? Thanks Jeff

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Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg] #657637
06/20/16 12:22 pm
06/20/16 12:22 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Originally Posted By jfligg
what kind of value to put on a 1950 ZB Goldie replica.
You haven't given nearly enough information to even try to answer this. Is it 350 or 500, plunger or rigid, iron or alloy engine, B31/33 or B32/34, built as a scrambler, trials or Clubman, built as an actual 'replica' of a specific GS model or as a 'custom' that's GS-like?

Re: replica pricing [Re: Magnetoman] #657639
06/20/16 12:36 pm
06/20/16 12:36 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,139
Lucan ON Canada
J
jfligg Offline OP
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jfligg  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,139
Lucan ON Canada
Sorry Guys
It has all the goldie bits,fenders,tank flip cap with vent tube, nice original seat. Plunger supension, done in road trim. ZB GS 34 stamping on the case but looks like the wrong font, new rims spoke tires. All alloy motor completely rebuilt. Correct one piece head and rocker box. VERY nice. I hope this helps. Jeff

Last edited by jfligg; 06/20/16 12:41 pm.
Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg] #657647
06/20/16 1:11 pm
06/20/16 1:11 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Speaking in averages, and recognizing that the right bike in front of the right seller at the right time can sell for more than it's "worth," if an actual road model ZB34 Gold Star in excellent condition sells for $10k, and a similar non-GS ZB34 sells for $6-7k, my guess is a faux GS in the same excellent condition also would go for $6-7k, if not less.

My premise in saying this is I expect the worth of the extra GS bits would be counterbalanced by it not actually being either an actual GS or a correct ZB34. Because of this such bikes only appeal to "enthusiasts" (and, even then, only to a subset of them), not to collectors or investors.

I suspect this isn't what you wanted to hear, but please don't shoot the messenger.

Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg] #657650
06/20/16 1:31 pm
06/20/16 1:31 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,241
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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Andy Higham  Offline
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A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,241
Bolton Lancs UK
I would not even contemplate building a replica to sell, it could cost more to build than its monetary value.
A replica is something more personal, it's the bike you always wanted but could never afford. It does not matter if it has the wrong levers as long as they suit your hands. It will have some of your DNA in it


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: replica pricing [Re: Andy Higham] #657665
06/20/16 2:56 pm
06/20/16 2:56 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Lannis  Offline

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Central Virginia
Originally Posted By Andy Higham
I would not even contemplate building a replica to sell, it could cost more to build than its monetary value.
A replica is something more personal, it's the bike you always wanted but could never afford. It does not matter if it has the wrong levers as long as they suit your hands. It will have some of your DNA in it


That sort of raises an interesting question. If one had a BSA pre-unit single frame with the bends and lumps suitable for a DBD-34 style engine, and started there, and added an ABSAF base-level motor, with good replica tank, fenders, oil tank, and the proper sized and width wheels, and then built up the rest with standard BSA parts of the period (bars, seat, brakes, light housings, wiring harness) .... with the owner doing the assembly work himself ...

... In such a way that it would look just like a road-going DBD-34 to the average knowledgable British Bike enthusiast, but would obviously give up its secrets pretty quick under close scrutiny by a Gold Star expert ....

What would that cost?

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: replica pricing [Re: Lannis] #657673
06/20/16 3:18 pm
06/20/16 3:18 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
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Magnetoman Online content

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Originally Posted By Lannis
If one had a BSA pre-unit single frame with the bends and lumps suitable for a DBD-34 style engine, and started there, ...
If it were of condition to bring $20k if it were a legitimate GS, I doubt such a bitza would bring even $15k.

The only appeal as a bitza would be to someone who really, really wants a Gold Star to ride, doesn't care what their friends will say about it, can't afford to pay $20k, but can afford to pay $15k (or $12k). That's a very narrow market.

Re: replica pricing [Re: Magnetoman] #657676
06/20/16 3:42 pm
06/20/16 3:42 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Lannis  Offline

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Central Virginia
Originally Posted By Magnetoman
Originally Posted By Lannis
If one had a BSA pre-unit single frame with the bends and lumps suitable for a DBD-34 style engine, and started there, ...
If it were of condition to bring $20k if it were a legitimate GS, I doubt such a bitza would bring even $15k.

The only appeal as a bitza would be to someone who really, really wants a Gold Star to ride, doesn't care what their friends will say about it, can't afford to pay $20k, but can afford to pay $15k (or $12k). That's a very narrow market.


I'm a very narrow guy, possibly .... well, in that way.

I think it would be great to have a machine that looked and performed just like a Gold Star, like a NEW Gold Star since it would be made out of new parts, without having to pay for the "historical value" of a machine that you'd ride and wear out (again). Value or "what their friends will say about it" doesn't mean a lot in this case (sometimes it does, though).

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: replica pricing [Re: Lannis] #657678
06/20/16 3:58 pm
06/20/16 3:58 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Posts: 4,642
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Originally Posted By Lannis
I think it would be great to have a machine that looked and performed just like a Gold Star, like a NEW Gold Star since it would be made out of new parts,..
The premise of my answer is how much someone would pay to buy someone else's bitza, not the merits of building one's own special. If you built the bike yourself you would know every screwup the builder made, and presumably have fixed each of them. However, if you bought such a bike you would not know it would perform like a new Gold Star because that would depend entirely on the mechanical skills of the guy who assembled it.

There is uncertainty with every used bike one buys, but in the case of a real GS the underlying base value of the machine is there even if you have to fix some defects you hadn't expected to be present when you bought it. Such isn't the case with a bitza.

Like it or not, matching numbers Gold Stars are the, ahem, gold standard irrespective of whatever performance is promised by a bitza special built by someone else. However, given how many parts are common with the M20/21 and B31/32/33/34, the fact the same number of hours are required to restore one of them as a real GS, and the significant price premium for a GS, buyers who haven't done their homework will continue to be burned.

If you want Gold Star performance, buy a Gold Star. Or, build a special yourself. But, don't expect to recoup your out-of-pocket expenses when you sell it.

Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg] #657679
06/20/16 4:00 pm
06/20/16 4:00 pm
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,497
Orygone
Boomer Offline

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Orygone
I thought an ABSAF engine started at about $12K? If one is near that cost I would consider the DB engine that is on eBay right now for $6K. Seller says it has a DBD head rebuilt by Rabers and the rest of the engine was newly rebuilt one year ago and never used. Even has a magdyno. I'm not savey enough to provide a link.

Item number 252405177507



Bill B...


Boomer
Re: replica pricing [Re: Boomer] #657687
06/20/16 5:12 pm
06/20/16 5:12 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Life member
Lannis  Offline

Life member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Originally Posted By Boomer
I thought an ABSAF engine started at about $12K? If one is near that cost I would consider the DB engine that is on eBay right now for $6K. Seller says it has a DBD head rebuilt by Rabers and the rest of the engine was newly rebuilt one year ago and never used. Even has a magdyno. I'm not savey enough to provide a link.

Item number 252405177507



Bill B...


Last time I had looked (several years) the standard-tune 500cc ABSAF engine complete was like $6500. So I went looking again, and ABSAF no longer posts prices on their site. People that sell for them typically say "Call For Price".

So I'm betting that new ABSAF engines are in fact very expensive these days, since they feel like if they show the price in writing, no one will even inquire.

So probably buying a stock engine and rebuilding it might be the way to go. Gonna be pricey though.

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: replica pricing [Re: Magnetoman] #657689
06/20/16 5:16 pm
06/20/16 5:16 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Life member
Lannis  Offline

Life member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Originally Posted By Magnetoman
Originally Posted By Lannis
I think it would be great to have a machine that looked and performed just like a Gold Star, like a NEW Gold Star since it would be made out of new parts,..
The premise of my answer is how much someone would pay to buy someone else's bitza, not the merits of building one's own special. If you built the bike yourself you would know every screwup the builder made, and presumably have fixed each of them. However, if you bought such a bike you would not know it would perform like a new Gold Star because that would depend entirely on the mechanical skills of the guy who assembled it.

There is uncertainty with every used bike one buys, but in the case of a real GS the underlying base value of the machine is there even if you have to fix some defects you hadn't expected to be present when you bought it. Such isn't the case with a bitza.

Like it or not, matching numbers Gold Stars are the, ahem, gold standard irrespective of whatever performance is promised by a bitza special built by someone else. However, given how many parts are common with the M20/21 and B31/32/33/34, the fact the same number of hours are required to restore one of them as a real GS, and the significant price premium for a GS, buyers who haven't done their homework will continue to be burned.

If you want Gold Star performance, buy a Gold Star. Or, build a special yourself. But, don't expect to recoup your out-of-pocket expenses when you sell it.


I must have expressed myself badly.

I was never contemplating buying someone else's bitsa, but building a special from proper parts that is built in a way so that it would present and perform exactly like a new Gold Star would have, or better.

And I have never bought or built a bike with "What will I be able to get for this when I sell it?" in view at all. I just don't care about that. I either keep bikes, or I sell them when I'm done with them for whatever the market is, and only the market knows that. Like Mark Twain's Chinese lottery player, "Lottery like one man he fight'um seventy. Sometime he whip, sometime he get whip heself."

So I was sort of asking "What would it cost me (starting with a proper frame) to build such a special?" with no regard to anyone else's special or what value it would have to the market when I was done.

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg] #657734
06/21/16 2:04 am
06/21/16 2:04 am
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,259
Middle East,
Kerry W Offline
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Kerry W  Offline
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Posts: 1,259
Middle East,
Rough guide, based on advertised prices of genuine and replicas in recent times, the replicas seem to be advertised for between 45-50% of the genuine item.


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg] #657782
06/21/16 1:06 pm
06/21/16 1:06 pm
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,798
Comox BC Canada
G
Gordo in Comox Offline
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Gordo in Comox  Offline
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G
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,798
Comox BC Canada
Jeff: Do you have a ZB34GS stamp or a ZBGS34 stamp on the cases? Do you have actual ZB GS spec cases or something else. What is the code stamped on the front flange of the cases?

The possible question might be when does a machine becomes a Bitsa. Is it when you replace a single part, replace the engine, replace any of the big bits like head, barrel, crank, cases, tanks, seat or frame? A machine is only original as it leaves the factory or maybe the dealer.

After that it starts to become non original even if you put on correct and identical replacement parts.

If you were to build a complete machine from correct parts it would not be much different than a machine that has repaired over the years and/or changed configuration.

Maybe any machine that has the same frame and crankcases that it left the factory with is an original genuine GS even if changes have been made to the other bits.

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg] #657786
06/21/16 1:30 pm
06/21/16 1:30 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,893
Elko, Nevada USA
dave - NV Offline

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dave - NV  Offline

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Elko, Nevada USA
If "money" is your issue, buy a low cost, dependable and fast used Honda and 'invest' the Gold Star finances in real estate. And live happily ever after. And buy Gold coins you can collect.

That is if you don't Need the rush of catching 4th at 95 per when down on the tank with your Goldie pulling hard on a country highway.
And you don't have a 'need' to be able to sit on the shop stool, sipping a cool one and looking at your little Goldie while She's cooling down. yeah ... I like that.


Dave - NV

Moderated by  Rich B 


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