BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
  JWood Auction  
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Photo posting tutorial

Member Spotlight
58a10
58a10
texas
Posts: 252
Joined: March 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
219 registered members (57nortonmodel77), 1,643 guests, and 555 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
revans, Gilly, XTINCT, Bruce Roberts, Brian Ellery
9959 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
btour 191
koan58 99
Stuart 86
NickL 73
Popular Topics(Views)
439,034 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums33
Topics65,292
Posts632,463
Members9,959
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#657627 - 06/20/16 10:40 am replica pricing  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,099
jfligg Offline
BritBike Forum member
jfligg  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,099
Lucan ON Canada
Hello Guys
I am wondering what kind of value to put on a 1950 ZB Goldie replica. It is a completely restored machine. The bike has all the right bits on it. No tack. It has what I believe to be replacement cases. How does the group feel that this effects the value? Thanks Jeff

BSA Gold Star eBay items

BSA Gold Star forum This board is dedicated to BSA Gold Star motorcycles.

#657637 - 06/20/16 12:22 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,982
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,982
U.S.
Originally Posted By jfligg
what kind of value to put on a 1950 ZB Goldie replica.
You haven't given nearly enough information to even try to answer this. Is it 350 or 500, plunger or rigid, iron or alloy engine, B31/33 or B32/34, built as a scrambler, trials or Clubman, built as an actual 'replica' of a specific GS model or as a 'custom' that's GS-like?

#657639 - 06/20/16 12:36 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,099
jfligg Offline
BritBike Forum member
jfligg  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,099
Lucan ON Canada
Sorry Guys
It has all the goldie bits,fenders,tank flip cap with vent tube, nice original seat. Plunger supension, done in road trim. ZB GS 34 stamping on the case but looks like the wrong font, new rims spoke tires. All alloy motor completely rebuilt. Correct one piece head and rocker box. VERY nice. I hope this helps. Jeff

Last edited by jfligg; 06/20/16 12:41 pm.
#657647 - 06/20/16 1:11 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,982
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,982
U.S.
Speaking in averages, and recognizing that the right bike in front of the right seller at the right time can sell for more than it's "worth," if an actual road model ZB34 Gold Star in excellent condition sells for $10k, and a similar non-GS ZB34 sells for $6-7k, my guess is a faux GS in the same excellent condition also would go for $6-7k, if not less.

My premise in saying this is I expect the worth of the extra GS bits would be counterbalanced by it not actually being either an actual GS or a correct ZB34. Because of this such bikes only appeal to "enthusiasts" (and, even then, only to a subset of them), not to collectors or investors.

I suspect this isn't what you wanted to hear, but please don't shoot the messenger.

#657650 - 06/20/16 1:31 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg]  
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 931
Andy Higham Online content
BritBike Forum member
Andy Higham  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 931
Bolton Lancs UK
I would not even contemplate building a replica to sell, it could cost more to build than its monetary value.
A replica is something more personal, it's the bike you always wanted but could never afford. It does not matter if it has the wrong levers as long as they suit your hands. It will have some of your DNA in it


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#657665 - 06/20/16 2:56 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: Andy Higham]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,069
Lannis Online content
Life member
Lannis  Online Content

Life member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,069
Central Virginia
Originally Posted By Andy Higham
I would not even contemplate building a replica to sell, it could cost more to build than its monetary value.
A replica is something more personal, it's the bike you always wanted but could never afford. It does not matter if it has the wrong levers as long as they suit your hands. It will have some of your DNA in it


That sort of raises an interesting question. If one had a BSA pre-unit single frame with the bends and lumps suitable for a DBD-34 style engine, and started there, and added an ABSAF base-level motor, with good replica tank, fenders, oil tank, and the proper sized and width wheels, and then built up the rest with standard BSA parts of the period (bars, seat, brakes, light housings, wiring harness) .... with the owner doing the assembly work himself ...

... In such a way that it would look just like a road-going DBD-34 to the average knowledgable British Bike enthusiast, but would obviously give up its secrets pretty quick under close scrutiny by a Gold Star expert ....

What would that cost?

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#657673 - 06/20/16 3:18 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: Lannis]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,982
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,982
U.S.
Originally Posted By Lannis
If one had a BSA pre-unit single frame with the bends and lumps suitable for a DBD-34 style engine, and started there, ...
If it were of condition to bring $20k if it were a legitimate GS, I doubt such a bitza would bring even $15k.

The only appeal as a bitza would be to someone who really, really wants a Gold Star to ride, doesn't care what their friends will say about it, can't afford to pay $20k, but can afford to pay $15k (or $12k). That's a very narrow market.

#657676 - 06/20/16 3:42 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,069
Lannis Online content
Life member
Lannis  Online Content

Life member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,069
Central Virginia
Originally Posted By Magnetoman
Originally Posted By Lannis
If one had a BSA pre-unit single frame with the bends and lumps suitable for a DBD-34 style engine, and started there, ...
If it were of condition to bring $20k if it were a legitimate GS, I doubt such a bitza would bring even $15k.

The only appeal as a bitza would be to someone who really, really wants a Gold Star to ride, doesn't care what their friends will say about it, can't afford to pay $20k, but can afford to pay $15k (or $12k). That's a very narrow market.


I'm a very narrow guy, possibly .... well, in that way.

I think it would be great to have a machine that looked and performed just like a Gold Star, like a NEW Gold Star since it would be made out of new parts, without having to pay for the "historical value" of a machine that you'd ride and wear out (again). Value or "what their friends will say about it" doesn't mean a lot in this case (sometimes it does, though).

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#657678 - 06/20/16 3:58 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: Lannis]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,982
Magnetoman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,982
U.S.
Originally Posted By Lannis
I think it would be great to have a machine that looked and performed just like a Gold Star, like a NEW Gold Star since it would be made out of new parts,..
The premise of my answer is how much someone would pay to buy someone else's bitza, not the merits of building one's own special. If you built the bike yourself you would know every screwup the builder made, and presumably have fixed each of them. However, if you bought such a bike you would not know it would perform like a new Gold Star because that would depend entirely on the mechanical skills of the guy who assembled it.

There is uncertainty with every used bike one buys, but in the case of a real GS the underlying base value of the machine is there even if you have to fix some defects you hadn't expected to be present when you bought it. Such isn't the case with a bitza.

Like it or not, matching numbers Gold Stars are the, ahem, gold standard irrespective of whatever performance is promised by a bitza special built by someone else. However, given how many parts are common with the M20/21 and B31/32/33/34, the fact the same number of hours are required to restore one of them as a real GS, and the significant price premium for a GS, buyers who haven't done their homework will continue to be burned.

If you want Gold Star performance, buy a Gold Star. Or, build a special yourself. But, don't expect to recoup your out-of-pocket expenses when you sell it.

#657679 - 06/20/16 4:00 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,354
Boomer Online content
BritBike Forum member
Boomer  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,354
Orygone
I thought an ABSAF engine started at about $12K? If one is near that cost I would consider the DB engine that is on eBay right now for $6K. Seller says it has a DBD head rebuilt by Rabers and the rest of the engine was newly rebuilt one year ago and never used. Even has a magdyno. I'm not savey enough to provide a link.

Item number 252405177507



Bill B...


Boomer
#657687 - 06/20/16 5:12 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: Boomer]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,069
Lannis Online content
Life member
Lannis  Online Content

Life member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,069
Central Virginia
Originally Posted By Boomer
I thought an ABSAF engine started at about $12K? If one is near that cost I would consider the DB engine that is on eBay right now for $6K. Seller says it has a DBD head rebuilt by Rabers and the rest of the engine was newly rebuilt one year ago and never used. Even has a magdyno. I'm not savey enough to provide a link.

Item number 252405177507



Bill B...


Last time I had looked (several years) the standard-tune 500cc ABSAF engine complete was like $6500. So I went looking again, and ABSAF no longer posts prices on their site. People that sell for them typically say "Call For Price".

So I'm betting that new ABSAF engines are in fact very expensive these days, since they feel like if they show the price in writing, no one will even inquire.

So probably buying a stock engine and rebuilding it might be the way to go. Gonna be pricey though.

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#657689 - 06/20/16 5:16 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: Magnetoman]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,069
Lannis Online content
Life member
Lannis  Online Content

Life member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,069
Central Virginia
Originally Posted By Magnetoman
Originally Posted By Lannis
I think it would be great to have a machine that looked and performed just like a Gold Star, like a NEW Gold Star since it would be made out of new parts,..
The premise of my answer is how much someone would pay to buy someone else's bitza, not the merits of building one's own special. If you built the bike yourself you would know every screwup the builder made, and presumably have fixed each of them. However, if you bought such a bike you would not know it would perform like a new Gold Star because that would depend entirely on the mechanical skills of the guy who assembled it.

There is uncertainty with every used bike one buys, but in the case of a real GS the underlying base value of the machine is there even if you have to fix some defects you hadn't expected to be present when you bought it. Such isn't the case with a bitza.

Like it or not, matching numbers Gold Stars are the, ahem, gold standard irrespective of whatever performance is promised by a bitza special built by someone else. However, given how many parts are common with the M20/21 and B31/32/33/34, the fact the same number of hours are required to restore one of them as a real GS, and the significant price premium for a GS, buyers who haven't done their homework will continue to be burned.

If you want Gold Star performance, buy a Gold Star. Or, build a special yourself. But, don't expect to recoup your out-of-pocket expenses when you sell it.


I must have expressed myself badly.

I was never contemplating buying someone else's bitsa, but building a special from proper parts that is built in a way so that it would present and perform exactly like a new Gold Star would have, or better.

And I have never bought or built a bike with "What will I be able to get for this when I sell it?" in view at all. I just don't care about that. I either keep bikes, or I sell them when I'm done with them for whatever the market is, and only the market knows that. Like Mark Twain's Chinese lottery player, "Lottery like one man he fight'um seventy. Sometime he whip, sometime he get whip heself."

So I was sort of asking "What would it cost me (starting with a proper frame) to build such a special?" with no regard to anyone else's special or what value it would have to the market when I was done.

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#657734 - 06/21/16 2:04 am Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,210
Kerry W Online content
BritBike Forum member
Kerry W  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,210
Middle East,
Rough guide, based on advertised prices of genuine and replicas in recent times, the replicas seem to be advertised for between 45-50% of the genuine item.


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
#657782 - 06/21/16 1:06 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,766
Gordo in Comox Offline
BritBike Forum member
Gordo in Comox  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,766
Comox BC Canada
Jeff: Do you have a ZB34GS stamp or a ZBGS34 stamp on the cases? Do you have actual ZB GS spec cases or something else. What is the code stamped on the front flange of the cases?

The possible question might be when does a machine becomes a Bitsa. Is it when you replace a single part, replace the engine, replace any of the big bits like head, barrel, crank, cases, tanks, seat or frame? A machine is only original as it leaves the factory or maybe the dealer.

After that it starts to become non original even if you put on correct and identical replacement parts.

If you were to build a complete machine from correct parts it would not be much different than a machine that has repaired over the years and/or changed configuration.

Maybe any machine that has the same frame and crankcases that it left the factory with is an original genuine GS even if changes have been made to the other bits.

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
#657786 - 06/21/16 1:30 pm Re: replica pricing [Re: jfligg]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,852
dave - NV Online content
BritBike Forum member
dave - NV  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,852
Elko, Nevada USA
If "money" is your issue, buy a low cost, dependable and fast used Honda and 'invest' the Gold Star finances in real estate. And live happily ever after. And buy Gold coins you can collect.

That is if you don't Need the rush of catching 4th at 95 per when down on the tank with your Goldie pulling hard on a country highway.
And you don't have a 'need' to be able to sit on the shop stool, sipping a cool one and looking at your little Goldie while She's cooling down. yeah ... I like that.


dave - NV

Moderated by  Rich B 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.070s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 0.9065 MB (Peak: 1.1586 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-11-23 16:39:03 UTC