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more piston ring problems #653456
05/19/16 6:05 pm
05/19/16 6:05 pm
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
M
mark ozzie Offline OP
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mark ozzie  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
so today I again tried to install the barrels and broke another ring here's what I found
according to what I can work out I have std a50 pistons so I ordered std a50 rings after breaking another ring I started doing test fits inside the barrels and found every ring is to big?
so can I simply (carefully) grind some off the ends until they fit or have I got bigger problems?

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Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653485
05/19/16 11:15 pm
05/19/16 11:15 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,305
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline
fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline
fefsa

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,305
ohio, usa
i bought a ring-end grinder a while back to use in adjusting rings on a machine i'm building. i wanted to use the old triumph figure of 10 to 14 thousandths.

put them in yesterday and all the rings were in spec-- 10 to 14 thousandsths, without me having to do anything. so now i have this really cool little ring grinder i still haven't been able to use.

on the other hand i have more faith in the piston maker and the man who bored my cylinders to match them.


"Are bikes so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? They're the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward on the handlebars. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes."
Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653500
05/20/16 5:40 am
05/20/16 5:40 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,822
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
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Posts: 3,822
Sydney Australia
Originally Posted By mark ozzie
so today I again tried to install the barrels and broke another ring here's what I found
according to what I can work out I have std a50 pistons so I ordered std a50 rings after breaking another ring I started doing test fits inside the barrels and found every ring is to big?
so can I simply (carefully) grind some off the ends until they fit or have I got bigger problems?


No.

You have been supplied with the wrong sized rings
What you end up with is an egg shaped ring .
It will seal . sort of for a while then wear rapidly where the uneven shape applies too much pressure on the bore witch you can also wear a groove into.
It was a nasty cheap bodgers trick to flog off a bike with a stuffed bore.
grind down an oversized ring till it just fits then sell the bike quick.
Don't even think of doing it.


Now to fit your rings get some dowel big enough to cut a hole to go over the cylinder stud and pot a hole in the other end for a short bolt.
Four will usually do the job about 2" to 3" long so you can get your fingers to the bottom of the bore spigots.
Position the pistons with rings just entering the spigotts then hang a big stilsons wrench on the crank nut so it is trying to rotate the crank into the barrels.
You now have both hands free, barrels suppored and the crank trying to wind the pistons into the barrels.
All you need to do is to squeeze the rings together and the piston will slide up all by itself.
Not too dissimilar the the method used at the factory.

Last edited by BSA_WM20; 05/20/16 5:47 am.

Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653744
05/22/16 12:27 am
05/22/16 12:27 am
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
M
mark ozzie Offline OP
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mark ozzie  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
well then I have a problem as the supplier ordered std rings and this is what I got if I cant get std rings then the engine is done

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653745
05/22/16 12:31 am
05/22/16 12:31 am
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
M
mark ozzie Offline OP
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mark ozzie  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
will a7 rings fit my a50?

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653746
05/22/16 12:55 am
05/22/16 12:55 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,686
OZ
Triless Online content
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Triless  Online Content
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Posts: 1,686
OZ
Std A7 bore,66mm ( 2.598" ). Std A50 bore,65.5 (2.579" ).

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653758
05/22/16 5:41 am
05/22/16 5:41 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,822
Sydney Australia
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BSA_WM20 Offline
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Sydney Australia
Originally Posted By mark ozzie
well then I have a problem as the supplier ordered std rings and this is what I got if I cant get std rings then the engine is done


No the problem is A 50's are a small market and you are assuming that the shop actually checked what they sent you .
Some one tossd the A50 rings in the wrong bin and blind Billy the illeterate store man went to row 3 level 5 bin 9 and grabbed whatever was in there then sent it to you.
A lot of the supposed BSA retailers would not know a real BSA part from a pigs bum. You have to check everything.
Trojan are Triumph & BMW people so just order BSA parts from a catalogue and put them in a bin, sometimes even the correct one.
British Spares are Notrun people , they know Notrun parts but they sell BSA parts as well but would be hard pressed to tell one wrong part from another.

Modak are great for anything made before 1930.

Bob at Classic All Parts ( Jim Eades) has no idea at all so if a pert is not labled he is stuffed, can't even count the number of wrong parts he has tried to sell me which is why I don't buy anything from him anymore as I can't walk into the shop and say" NO that is wrong" .

Draganfly are somewhat the same. From memory they were Douglass specialists and have over time kept on acquiring stock for shops that close down so now sell everything British.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653796
05/22/16 1:06 pm
05/22/16 1:06 pm
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
M
mark ozzie Offline OP
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mark ozzie  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
so is there a supplier out there that anyone recommends will sell me the correct part ?

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653797
05/22/16 1:34 pm
05/22/16 1:34 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,258
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
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Posts: 3,258
arkansas
Even the best have problems sometimes. And they can only sell what they can get.

Seems like I remember a discussion from a while back that A50 rings were scarce.......and standard maybe almost nonexistent. I'd call Baxter's for sure. I checked Draganfly's site, they don't have them.

If you search for a while with no luck, you could always put that project aside and then collect an A65 top end for it- basically bolts right on.

Did you ever put a parts wanted ad here on the classifieds? That works pretty good....doesn't always look like it because guys use personal messages.

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653798
05/22/16 1:39 pm
05/22/16 1:39 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,258
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
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Posts: 3,258
arkansas
I also looked at Draganfly in the case maybe you could bore to next size up. Looks like you might find oversize pistons and rings for A50, but it was $$$$. That's what made me think of the A65 top end. You'd need head, barrel, pushrods, pistons and rings. Not much else.

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653815
05/22/16 4:19 pm
05/22/16 4:19 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,700
Pacific northwest
Q
quinten Offline
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Posts: 1,700
Pacific northwest
Originally Posted By mark ozzie
so is there a supplier out there that anyone recommends will sell me the correct part ?


dhill@hastingsmfg.com

Dawn Hill at Hastings is someone who can probably help .

Drop her an email with particulars ....

https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/ring-finder

1962-70 500cc Eng. Royal Star
Std piston size ... 2.579"
Cyl. 2
Hasting Piston ring set ... 6940
Quantity , comp rings ... 4 - 1/16
.................... oil rings ... 2 - 1/8

.

Last edited by quinten; 05/22/16 4:33 pm.
Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653819
05/22/16 5:31 pm
05/22/16 5:31 pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 278
UK
V
VicCyclone Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 278
UK
Look on UK e Bay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-A50-PISTON-RINGS-JOB-LOT-/361261415518

They've been on there for several months. The only reason I haven't bought them is that they are all STD. Some are apparently NOS.

Good luck


VicCyclone

1965 A50 Cyclone Clubman
1966 Victor GP
1967 Victor Special
1968 Victor Special
1968 A65L

2009 HD FXDC
Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653820
05/22/16 5:36 pm
05/22/16 5:36 pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 278
UK
V
VicCyclone Offline
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V

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 278
UK
I've used A7 STD rings on A50 +20 pistons I should think that A7 +20 will fit A50 +40.


VicCyclone

1965 A50 Cyclone Clubman
1966 Victor GP
1967 Victor Special
1968 Victor Special
1968 A65L

2009 HD FXDC
Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653822
05/22/16 6:17 pm
05/22/16 6:17 pm
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
M
mark ozzie Offline OP
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mark ozzie  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
thanks guys those are what I need but he doesn't ship to usa

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653832
05/22/16 7:42 pm
05/22/16 7:42 pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 278
UK
V
VicCyclone Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 278
UK
Have you asked him? Sometimes they will even if they say UK only on the listing.


VicCyclone

1965 A50 Cyclone Clubman
1966 Victor GP
1967 Victor Special
1968 Victor Special
1968 A65L

2009 HD FXDC
Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653839
05/22/16 9:06 pm
05/22/16 9:06 pm
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
M
mark ozzie Offline OP
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mark ozzie  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
all sorted thanks guys my brother inlaw in uk got them for me and is sending them over I also found a listing for hastings rings with the correct measurements so bought them to

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653842
05/22/16 10:01 pm
05/22/16 10:01 pm
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,822
Sydney Australia
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BSA_WM20 Offline
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Sydney Australia
And when they arrive, check them in the bore, every ring before you try to install


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Trevor
Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653846
05/22/16 10:40 pm
05/22/16 10:40 pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,496
melbourne florida
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bodine031 Offline
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Posts: 1,496
melbourne florida
So you are in Florida and did not call MAP Cycles in St Pete???

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #653852
05/23/16 12:51 am
05/23/16 12:51 am
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
M
mark ozzie Offline OP
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mark ozzie  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
no one told me of map and did not know about them so no I didn't if I had known I would have

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: BSA_WM20] #653853
05/23/16 12:52 am
05/23/16 12:52 am
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
M
mark ozzie Offline OP
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mark ozzie  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 128
florida but from Australia
Originally Posted By BSA_WM20
And when they arrive, check them in the bore, every ring before you try to install


I will thanks

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #654591
05/28/16 8:43 am
05/28/16 8:43 am
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 101
Cleveland, Ohio
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Jack D Offline
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Jack D  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 101
Cleveland, Ohio
Might not be great advice, but I got rings by bringing my piston and jug into a local race shop that builds high performance auto engines. He was the one who did the valve job, cleaned and honed the bore and jug and piston (out of pity). After measuring, he pulled out a paper catalog (yes the old kind from years ago) and found ones that fit and ordered them. Not NOS BSA but I can stand on my Kickstarter on compression and she doesn't move. Maybe go that route and compare what you get with somebody like that. They have always given me good advice. I know not close to you but maybe you have a shop nearby.

K & B Engine and Machine, North Olmsted, Ohio

Re: more piston ring problems [Re: mark ozzie] #654660
05/28/16 9:56 pm
05/28/16 9:56 pm
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,822
Sydney Australia
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BSA_WM20 Offline
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B

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,822
Sydney Australia
Those places are few & far between.
Try and find any retailer who can find a part without a vin number off a cumputer file with more transcription errors than I care to imagine.
Even the ring catalogues themselves rarely give you dimensions, just applications which is not very helpful in our case.


Bike Beesa
Trevor

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