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Dehibernation oil change help #652953
05/16/16 10:18 am
05/16/16 10:18 am
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 85
Louisville, KY USA
M
Mr Bentwrench Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Mr Bentwrench  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
M
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 85
Louisville, KY USA
Dehibernating a '75 T160 properly stored for about 10 years. Changing the engine & gearbox oil as a matter of course and have a few issues and questions.

Engine Oil:

> It didn't have an oil filter! Cleaned out the sludge and have a new filter coming in this week. However, I'm missing the spring (70-6130). Found ONE on eBay (US & UK) but it's $24 shipped! I'm thinking more like local hardware store for maybe $1.80 but would appreciate approximate dimensions for diameter and length. Its just an oil filter tension spring so figure there is some pretty reasonable tollerance.

> Would like to replace the cap O-ring while I'm there. Anything special about it? Figure I'll take the cap with me to the hardware store too and match up a suitable replacement... provided it's not some bastard size.

> Clean out the scavanger filter? Figure I probably should especially after finding all the sludge in the oil filter cavity. My A65T was super easy (and needed it too!) but this T160 looks like you have to pull the center pipes. Is there a trick to this? Just unbolt the center exhaust pipe tie bolt, loosen the two clamps to the collector box... and then work to break the pipes loose from all the carbon buildup? Now, upon reassembly, I see no seals or gaskets between the exhaust pipes and the siamesed exhaust manifold on the head? Is the inside of the manifold just stepped for a butt fit to the pipe end and held tight aginst the manifold angles by the tie bolt? Anyone use an exhaust sealer, specifically like Permatex "Ultra Copper" (hi-temp RTV silicone gasket maker)?

Gearbox Oil:

> Now I really feel stupid. I don't find a gearbox drain plug on the bike nor see one in the parts book. How do you drain the damn gearbox oil? frown BTW, I DID find the fill! wink

Thanks for any help and advice you may have.


My 1967 BSA A65T Thunderbolt parts bike rebuild project is kicking my ass. (wife's '75 T160 on deck)
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Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #652955
05/16/16 11:08 am
05/16/16 11:08 am
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,804
ohio
shel Offline
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shel  Offline
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,804
ohio
A good article on that subject

waqking the sleeping beast


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #652957
05/16/16 11:22 am
05/16/16 11:22 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,664
Pacific northwest
Q
quinten Offline
BritBike Forum member
quinten  Offline
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Q
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,664
Pacific northwest

The
Gear box plug and all the other stuff is shown in the workshop manual
http://www.lamaneta.org/manuales/manuale...gles%204478.pdf

.

Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #652958
05/16/16 11:47 am
05/16/16 11:47 am
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 79
Houston
G
GaleGorman Offline
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GaleGorman  Offline
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G
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 79
Houston
You really need the workshop manual and the parts manual. You could also use a list of suppliers of real Triumph spare parts. The hardware store is not a good source.

There are quite a few suppliers in the U.S. and a lot more in the U.K.

I can send links to the ones I've used.

The O-ring you're hunting is commonly used in quite a few places on the Trident and they are not expensive so it's a good plan to keep a small sack of them on hand.


Gale Gorman
Houston
1974 Triumph Trident
1983 BMW R100S
Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #652960
05/16/16 11:52 am
05/16/16 11:52 am
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 79
Houston
G
GaleGorman Offline
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GaleGorman  Offline
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G
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 79
Houston
You would do well to post this on TriplesOnLine.com


Gale Gorman
Houston
1974 Triumph Trident
1983 BMW R100S
Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #652966
05/16/16 1:13 pm
05/16/16 1:13 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,563
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
BritBike Forum member
L.A.B.  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,563
Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted By Mr Bentwrench
> It didn't have an oil filter!


cry crazy That's not good. I suggest you at least fit an oil pressure gauge (if it were mine I'd want to rebuild that engine).



Originally Posted By Mr Bentwrench
However, I'm missing the spring (70-6130). Found ONE on eBay (US & UK) but it's $24 shipped!


http://www.triumph-spares.co.uk/manufact_details.php?page=15&pagegroup=1

Quote:
70-6130
Oil filter spring.NLA. use 70-6062

70-6062: 1.25



Originally Posted By Mr Bentwrench
I'm thinking more like local hardware store for maybe $1.80 but would appreciate approximate dimensions for diameter and length. Its just an oil filter tension spring so figure there is some pretty reasonable tollerance.


I wouldn't say it was "just" a spring as it must keep the filter seated against oil pressure under normal circumstances, but allow the filter to lift off its seat if it becomes blocked, so isn't any old spring.

Originally Posted By Mr Bentwrench
> Would like to replace the cap O-ring while I'm there. Anything special about it? Figure I'll take the cap with me to the hardware store too and match up a suitable replacement... provided it's not some bastard size.


71-1070 Should be BS126.



Originally Posted By Mr Bentwrench
Clean out the scavanger filter?


grin

Make sure you refit the sump plate correctly (trough end to the rear).


Originally Posted By Mr Bentwrench
> Now I really feel stupid. I don't find a gearbox drain plug on the bike nor see one in the parts book. How do you drain the damn gearbox oil? frown BTW, I DID find the fill! wink



http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/Repair/Trident/1975Triumph-T160.pdf

Section A7, Fig.A4 Item 3. "Gearbox drain and level plug" (drain only on a T160).

http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/Parts/Trident/1975T160PartsManual.pdf
pdf, pages 16 & 17,
Item 44, "21-1872 Drain plug-transmission (gearbox)".


Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #652967
05/16/16 1:17 pm
05/16/16 1:17 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,084
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline
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John Healy  Offline
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J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,084
Boston, Massachusetts
Quote:
It didn't have an oil filter! Cleaned out the sludge and have a new filter coming in this week.


This is not a motor you want to run without a filter in place! It is also not a motor you want to start without priming the oil filter cavity BEFORE starting!!!!! This should be done each time you change the filter. Failing to do this runs the main, and thus the rod, bearings dry for as long as it takes the pump to fill the oil filter cavity and build pressure.

Given that you found sludge in the oil filter cavity I would check oil pressure before taking the bike for a ride. If the pressure isn't over 70 pounds @ approx 3,000 rpm (60-90 is normal) @ 80 C (176 F) I would park it and schedule a complete engine overhaul!!!!!!

These engines throw connecting rods with catastrophic results. They have a habit of doing this often. The first warning, and probably the only one, will be when the oil pressure drops.

Last edited by John Healy; 05/16/16 2:48 pm. Reason: 60 to 80 C

Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #652979
05/16/16 3:15 pm
05/16/16 3:15 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,255
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Offline

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Tridentman  Offline

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,255
New Jersey USA
First time I have heard of one of these engines being run without an oil filter!
The DPO must be very very D!--if he has done that then you need to look at all other aspects of the bike very carefully.
+1 to all the above comments.
Measure the oil pressure is a must and not too difficult to set up as a test gage.
These engines are expensive to rebuild if they throw a rod!
HTH

Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #653004
05/16/16 7:39 pm
05/16/16 7:39 pm
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,804
ohio
shel Offline
BritBike Forum member
shel  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,804
ohio
"The first warning, and probably the only one, will be when the oil pressure drops" J.H.
This is why I run with a o.p gauge. I don't need it to be 100% accurate, it's there to show me if there is a change in pressure.


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #653099
05/17/16 12:37 pm
05/17/16 12:37 pm
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 85
Louisville, KY USA
M
Mr Bentwrench Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Mr Bentwrench  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
M
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 85
Louisville, KY USA
Thank you guys! Great insight into things I was again minimizing.

Spring - Was just thinking positioning and not blow off tension! Only $8.08 shipped from here in US for quick delivery too. Critical catch! Thanks!

O-Ring - $3.77/pr shipped from US. Honestly, it's always been a real hit & miss on hardware store matchups for me anyway.

Sump Gasket - Ordered the required PAIR for $5.77/ea from here in US. I assume my initial discription of center exhaust pipe fitment was correct and will make a determination later on high temp copper exhaust sealant at the two manifold connections.

Gearcase Drain Plug - Yep, there's that little bastard! Diagram part #44! Just had to point me to what rock to look under. wink

Oil Pressure Check - Usually I just add an NPT "T fitting" between the boss and the oil pressure warning light switch for a mechanical gauge. However it apprears that the T160 switch is BSPP. Although this works for an old Harley, the T160 Service manual says "The pressure can only be checked with a gauge connected to an adaptor specially designed to replace one of the blanking plugs on the front of the centre crankcase (see Fig B43)" Whaaa? Any links to other threads on this for what is probably already a well worn subject?


My 1967 BSA A65T Thunderbolt parts bike rebuild project is kicking my ass. (wife's '75 T160 on deck)
Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #653103
05/17/16 1:08 pm
05/17/16 1:08 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,689
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
BritBike Forum member
Stuart  Offline
BritBike Forum member
S
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,689
Scotland
Hi,

Originally Posted By Mr Bentwrench
Oil Pressure Check - Usually I just add an NPT "T fitting"
However it apprears that the T160 switch is BSPP.

No! Absolutely Not!

Like the vast majority of '69-on Triumphs and BSA's, the T160 oil pressure switch thread is 1/8"NPS - National Pipe Straight.

Only very early '69-season triples and twins had NPT-thread o.p. switches. The T150 has a documented change to NPS in calendar January 1969, the twins don't have the change documented but my research indicates earlier - calendar October 1968?

Triumph, BSA and NVT never used British Standard Pipe-thread o.p. switches.

Originally Posted By Mr Bentwrench
the T160 Service manual says "The pressure can only be checked with a gauge connected to an adaptor specially designed to replace one of the blanking plugs on the front of the centre crankcase (see Fig B43)" Whaaa?

The centre crankcase section has two 1/2"AF hex. bolts in the front. These are 5/16"UNC thread and blank off oilway drillings to the centre main bearings. Although 5/16"UNC isn't a normal pressure fitting, the L.P. Williams o.p. gauge kit has included a replacement to attach a banjo bolt since the eponymous Les developed the gauge mounting.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Dehibernation oil change help [Re: Mr Bentwrench] #653449
05/19/16 5:17 pm
05/19/16 5:17 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,239
Magnolia, TX
htown Offline
BritBike Forum member
htown  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,239
Magnolia, TX
This is a nice gauge kit.
http://www.triplesunlimited.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=60_65 Sometimes he has them on eBay.
Don't be spooked by his location. He's a straight shooter. I've purchase 3 items from him. Allowing for overseas shipping they came very quickly. He has a good rep on the other triple forum.
http://www.triplesonline.com/

Last edited by htown; 05/19/16 5:18 pm.

1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.


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