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1970 A65 Timing Mark #631751
12/26/15 1:30 pm
12/26/15 1:30 pm
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Posts: 6
indiana
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steve44 Offline OP
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indiana
I've read the Haynes manual on locating the timing mark but still can't find it. When I look through the front plug opening at the front of the case and turn the engine over I can find the characters "3" and "7" off to the left edge but can't find the detent for the holding tool. I have gone all the way around at least 3 times.

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Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #631760
12/26/15 2:22 pm
12/26/15 2:22 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 383
New Jersey
Keane Lucas Offline

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New Jersey
If you remove the small round cover from the primary side,it will reveal the rotor which will have one, or two timing marks that would be used with a timing light.At about the 5 o'clock position in the primary cover you will see two small holes,one of which should contain a timing pointer.the one closer to the 6 o'clock position is standard- indicating 34 degrees BTDC. The older original rotor would only have one mark,but the new ones have 2, 180* from each other.Line that up and give it another look.


1969 BSA A65T w/A70 engine
1970 Royal Enfield Interceptor S ll
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #631769
12/26/15 3:30 pm
12/26/15 3:30 pm
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Posts: 216
netherlands
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lemans Offline
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netherlands
I normally use a small screwdriver. point through the slotted hole and press gently against the central flywheel. turn the crank slowly keeping a light pressure on the scrwedriver. if there is a slot in the flywheel, the scrwedriver will engage. align the screwdriver blade horinzontally

succes A

Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #631775
12/26/15 3:58 pm
12/26/15 3:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 383
New Jersey
Keane Lucas Offline

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New Jersey
Just checked a 71 engine I have apart.It has a machined key type slot in the flywheel appx 1" horizontal X 1/8" vertical for the timing tool.My BSA twin knowledge is 69-72,Is yours the original engine?


1969 BSA A65T w/A70 engine
1970 Royal Enfield Interceptor S ll
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #631999
12/27/15 2:23 pm
12/27/15 2:23 pm
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Posts: 6
indiana
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steve44 Offline OP
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indiana
The engine number and frame number match, so yes, original engine.

Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632083
12/27/15 9:02 pm
12/27/15 9:02 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,999
Maryland
JD Offline

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But is it the original crank? Or even the original flywheel?


Josh
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: JD] #632171
12/28/15 11:34 am
12/28/15 11:34 am
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 152
Bishops Stortford, England
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timbo Offline
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My 71 Thunderbolt has an early type ball bearing crank with no slot. I used a DTI gauge for initial setting up, then a strobe for the fine tuning.


1971 Thunderbolt
1957 Bantam D3
1992 Triumph Trident 750
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632179
12/28/15 12:03 pm
12/28/15 12:03 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,049
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

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Central Virginia
Originally Posted by steve44
The engine number and frame number match, so yes, original engine.


If you can't find the timing slot in the flywheel through the inspection hole using the methods described, then you've got an early flywheel in your engine (not unthinkable after all these years).

The slot is positive and easy to find, it's not just a faint scratch. With a small screwdriver, or a 3mm Allen key, or the BSA timing mark stop, it's a positive locator.

If it's not there, you're back to a degree wheel for finding crank location .....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632182
12/28/15 12:46 pm
12/28/15 12:46 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,420
Santa Barbara, California
KC in S.B. Offline

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Steve, The old fashioned way of timing a motor is still useful and easy. You need to have the ignition timed advanced as you know. Timing marks do this of course. If not available, then a degree wheel will work, but is somewhat a PITA to set up and also to use. (There are several ways to mount one). In my opinion, the old way of stopping the piston before Top Center at the correct measurement works well and is a no brainier.
Bike on the center stand, in 4th gear, plugs out, use the rear wheel to move the motor. Find the point that is Top Center as best you can. Move the piston backwards, so it is now on the up stroke, and physically stop it at the measured advance point, using a anything you can measure with that will fit down the spark plug hole. If memory serves, and you need to check this, I think it is something like .310" distance before top center. (BTC) Search through your book for the correct measurement, likely in the front "Specs" section. I have done this several times, and just last week to get a Victor running for a shop that was stuck. It works, it's simple. It can be a real help to understand this, and I have even used a pop sickle stick to get running in a jam.


Down to 1 BSA, 2 Triumphs, 1 '56 Chevy
Oops,.. add 1 '65 XLCH
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632212
12/28/15 4:11 pm
12/28/15 4:11 pm
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 216
netherlands
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lemans Offline
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finding the exact TDC is rather difficult, piston is hardly moving at all.

I use a degreewheel and an extended spark plug.
1. screw in the E-plug and rotate engine forward.
2. piston is stopped before TDC by the plug, read the degreewheel
3. rotate engine backward until piston is stopped by plug, read the wheel

TDC is in the middle of both readings.

4. remove E-plug
5. time the engine

do not use force

regards A

Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632235
12/28/15 6:16 pm
12/28/15 6:16 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,999
Maryland
JD Offline

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Maryland
And because a picture is worth a thousand words and I have my engine partly apart, here's the slot for which you're looking.

[Linked Image]


Josh
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632240
12/28/15 6:44 pm
12/28/15 6:44 pm
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Posts: 6
indiana
S
steve44 Offline OP
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indiana
Thanks. That is a big slot and I'm sure I would have seen it if present.

Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632295
12/29/15 4:38 am
12/29/15 4:38 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,128
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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The flywheel may have been fitted the wrong way around.


beerchug
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632345
12/29/15 12:18 pm
12/29/15 12:18 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,420
Santa Barbara, California
KC in S.B. Offline

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Is that possible? Never thought of that! If so, the balance could be a real problem also !!


Down to 1 BSA, 2 Triumphs, 1 '56 Chevy
Oops,.. add 1 '65 XLCH
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632349
12/29/15 12:42 pm
12/29/15 12:42 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,575
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline

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ohio, usa
there are workarounds for that problem

[Linked Image]


"Are bikes so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? They're the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward on the handlebars. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes."
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: KC in S.B.] #632488
12/30/15 6:19 am
12/30/15 6:19 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,128
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Originally Posted by KC in S.B.
Is that possible? Never thought of that! If so, the balance could be a real problem also !!


Yeah, my first fitted crank had the flywheel the wrong way around. Still has, as it sits there slowly rusting. Balance was real nice upto 4000, but the rods were different weights too


beerchug
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632541
12/30/15 11:14 am
12/30/15 11:14 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,420
Santa Barbara, California
KC in S.B. Offline

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So I guess the "Tip-Off" that something is not right would be the timing slot on the primary side.


Down to 1 BSA, 2 Triumphs, 1 '56 Chevy
Oops,.. add 1 '65 XLCH
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632752
12/31/15 9:15 am
12/31/15 9:15 am
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6
indiana
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steve44 Offline OP
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indiana
OK, now that is fairly certain that my flywheels do not have the indexing slot, what is the best way to proceed? The task at hand is to re-assemble the advance mechanism in its proper orientation.

Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #632775
12/31/15 9:53 am
12/31/15 9:53 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,244
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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argyll. scotland, uk
Either believe the timing marks on the rotor , which show full advance with a pointer against the primary, ( a 1970 should have this ), or prove everything from 1st principles , find TDC using a degree disc and fixed stop in the plug hole, then set full advance using the disc.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #633067
01/01/16 12:57 pm
01/01/16 12:57 pm
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6
indiana
S
steve44 Offline OP
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indiana
OK, I am lined up with the full advance mark on the rotor. I work with the right hand piston on compression stroke to proceed with the advance mechanism installation, is that correct? Any little tips on holding the advance mechanism in the full advance position for the installation?

Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #633080
01/01/16 1:57 pm
01/01/16 1:57 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,902
ca, us
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DMadigan Offline
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ca, us
You have to put in the advance with bolt but not tight. Put in the point plate then rotate (CCW) the advance until the point for the right cylinder just opens (use an Ohm meter). Rotate it by tapping the cam notch with a small screw driver. Lightly tighten the advance bolt and check the timing again. You may have to readjust the advance at least once again so you have enough adjustment left on the point plate to zero in the timing.

Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #633083
01/01/16 2:34 pm
01/01/16 2:34 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,719
Mississauga, Ontario.
A
Adam M. Offline
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A

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Mississauga, Ontario.
This is not clear for me David.
Do you mean rotate it in the direction the engine turns to get to full advance, or against this direction ? Normally to get more advance you have to move the cam against the direction the engine turns.
And how to keep it there ?
manual tells you to use the oversize washer under the bolt. "This has the effect of locking the cam.
The auto advance unit should be replaced in such a position that number 1 points are just opened ( 0.0015 ins ) when the auto advance is locked in the full advance, that is full clockwise motion position ".
So you have to trust that you picked up a right size of the washer and it will work + they tell you that turning it in the direction of the rotating engine is full advance ?

Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #633086
01/01/16 2:52 pm
01/01/16 2:52 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,595
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Online content
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Just turn the dwell cam in the direction that opposes the bobweight springs, all the way to stop.

Note that on a BSA the dwell cam rotates in the opposite direction of the crank.

The washer to lock the cam in place just has to be thick enough and have a large enough i.d. to clear the end of the AAU.





Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #633091
01/01/16 3:15 pm
01/01/16 3:15 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,719
Mississauga, Ontario.
A
Adam M. Offline
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Thanks Mark, I wrote about my Trident where I have to set 3 sets of points smile.
It will certainly look different on the BSA.

Re: 1970 A65 Timing Mark [Re: steve44] #633129
01/01/16 8:23 pm
01/01/16 8:23 pm
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ca, us
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DMadigan Offline
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Sorry, the A65 advance rotates CCW so to advance the point cam you have to rotate it CCW to the bob-weight stop. The triple point cam is on the exhaust so rotates CW the same as the crank. The washer has to have a large enough hole to fit over the cam stem so the bolt can lock it (as Mark said). If the washer has too large of an O.D. then it will be difficult to get a small screw driver blade on the notch to tap it around. You have to work the cam around in the CCW direction or it will not be against the full advance stop. I do not bother with the washer as I am tapping the cam around until the points just open. This also assumes that you previously tightened the AAU enough to set the point gap.

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