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#625846 - 11/15/15 3:51 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
Joined: Jun 2002
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Stuart Offline
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Hi Carlos,

Originally Posted By Carlos
I cannot confirm what happens with pins 12-13-14-19, cause they are all shorted when not in OFF position.

This appears to be what the diagram you have posted shows; because of the connection between pins 14 and 19, all those terminals are energised in both NORMAL and EMG.

Originally Posted By Carlos
The only noticeable difference is when i turn it to ON position, what gets shorted is pin15/16 and in EMG it shorts pin17/18..opposite of the original scheme.

Maybe a silly question, but are you sure you are turning the switch the correct directions? Clockwise from OFF to NORMAL, anti-clockwise from OFF to EMG? What you are showing here ...

... is the opposite.

Originally Posted By Carlos
when he bought the bike, it would only start in EMG mode.

Is your friend also turning the Ignition Switch in the correct directions?

Or, as "pins 12-13-14-19 ... are all shorted when not in OFF position", there is continuity along the White wire from pin 14 to the ignition coil "-" terminal in both NORMAL and EMG?

Originally Posted By Carlos
so +ve to coil is coming from the circuit breaker points.

No. DC (Direct Current) is always from battery "-" (negative) and to battery "+" (positive).

So nothing can ever come from "+ve to coil".

Originally Posted By Carlos
when 63SA ignition is ON, i am sending -ve from battery to SW- of coil, and GY from alternator to CB+ of coil.

In NORMAL, the switch should "send -ve from battery" through pin 14 and the White wire "to SW- of coil" ("SW-" stands for "SWitch" and negative) ...

... then BW from "CB +" through the ("C"ontact "B"reaker and positive) points to battery "+" ...

... or the ignition does not work?

But any extra power from the stator Lighting coils - through GY - is not required. NORMAL simply connects the stator Lighting coils GY at pins 16/17 to pin 18 and the Black wire to Lighting Switch pin 5.

Originally Posted By Carlos
When ignition switch is EMG mode, I am sending -ve from battery to SW- of coil, and GY is left open,

No. In EMG, the switch connects the extra power from the stator Lighting coils through GY on pin 16 to pin 15 and BW to coil "CB +". Why? I do not know at the moment but it is the same with the 88SA Ignition Switch and PRS8 combined switch.

Originally Posted By Carlos
Like someone said in a forum, if the rectifier was inverted and engine running for some time (minutes maybe), the alternator rotor can get demagnetized, or loss some magnetism strength.

If so, I would like to know how ... confused

. if the engine was running, the alternator was generating AC;

. the rectifier simply converts AC to DC;

. with a 'negative earth' rectifier, the DC was running the 'wrong' way through the bike's DC electrics; the only thing that I can see that could be affected is the battery?

On the other hand, the only other power source on the bike is a tiny 6V battery; even if it was connected directly to the alternator and the engine was not running, the battery could generate sufficient magnetism in the stator coils to demagnetise the rotor? laughing

Originally Posted By Carlos
maybe that's why i dont have more then 6.3volts no matter the RPM.

Or maybe it is just an old (maybe 54 years old?) rotor that has lost much of its magnetism naturally? wink

Hope this helps.

Regards,

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#625873 - 11/15/15 6:42 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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argyll. scotland, uk
Stuart, you deserve a medal for patience , tenacity and wisdom. I tip my hat to you.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#625912 - 11/16/15 5:27 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: gavin eisler]  
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Stuart Offline
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Hi Gavin,

blush

Let's hope we can fix the damn' bike ...

Regards, smile

#625917 - 11/16/15 6:45 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Stuart]  
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Carlos Offline
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Portugal
Stuart,

Thank you again for the kind help.

Just a quick reply, since i still didn't had the time to get back to my friends bike. (maybe during this week)

It doesn't matter if i turn left or right. What matters are what pins are being shorted when turning ignition switch!
My friend cap switch looks like this one:


From front: Turn switch Right (EMG marking) and pins 16-17/18 gets shorted.
Turn switch Left (ON marking) and pins 15/16-17 gets shorted.
Looking from behind, it seems that the internal connections turn in opposite way of from cap.

I still think that those pins are not being correctly connected, or Cap has wrong markings (not the correct cap), or switch is from another type with wrong Cap!
But lets not waste more time in this...I have understood and its an easy fix and easy testing during engine running.

"Or maybe it is just an old (maybe 54 years old?) rotor that has lost much of its magnetism naturally? "

Agree...need to check alternator.
I will see if its a 70mm or 74mm rotor. (stator - RM14? RM13? RM15? 5AF? ) Then i can probably check how many amps are being produced at 2000rpm to check if magnetism or coils are weak.
Tables from page 5 and 8 from this doc.
http://www.bsa-oc.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/593_GENERAL_SERVICING_INFORMATION.PDF

I hope, that my next post will be: " Problem solved!" rrrrrrrrrr

best regards
Carlos

#625965 - 11/16/15 4:14 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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Stuart Offline
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Hi Carlos,

Originally Posted By Carlos
It doesn't matter if i turn left or right.

Oh yes, it does! smile

Originally Posted By Carlos
What matters are what pins are being shorted when turning ignition switch!
From front: Turn switch Right (EMG marking) and pins 16-17/18 gets shorted.
Turn switch Left (ON marking) and pins 15/16-17 gets shorted.
Looking from behind, it seems that the internal connections turn in opposite way of from cap.

No. smile This "cap switch":-

... is the wrong one for a 63SA Ignition Switch. It is causing you and your friend to turn the switch the wrong ways. The switch diagram you have posted shows:-

"From front: Turn switch Right" (should be marked "IGN") "and pins 16-17/18 gets shorted".
"Turn switch Left" (should be marked "EMG") "and pins 15/16-17 gets shorted".

The switch appears to be working correctly. If so, all the time you and your friend believed, "Bike only runs when ignition switch is at EMG position", the bike was running in the "Normal Ignition On" position. smile

But:-
Originally Posted By Carlos
if i change it to ON, engine dies just like OFF state. Bike does not start at ON position...dead.
Bike running in EMG mode will charge the battery..but probably overcharging it, since it reach's 8.7V with high RPMs.

It is possible these two problems are connected:-

. Firstly, you should check for continuity from pin 14 to coil "SW -" along the White wire with the switch turned to both IGN and EMG.

. You should also check for continuity from coil "CB +" to the points along the Black/White wire.

. If you find continuity in both these wires - I believe you will, because the the engine runs with the switch turned "Right" to the "EMG" marking (correctly "Normal Ignition On") - disconnect the BW wire between coil "CB +" and pin 15 and see if the engine will now run with the switch turned "Left" to the "IGN" marking (correctly "Emergency Ign. On")?

. If it will, I believe the problem lies in the GY wire. If it does, that is probably why "Bike running [with switch turned Right (correctly "Normal Ignition On")] will charge the battery..but probably overcharging it, since it reach's 8.7V with high RPMs".

. If the GY is faulty:-

.. not only will the bike not run when the switch is turned Left (correctly "Emergency Ign. On");

.. while it depends also on the position of the Lighting Switch, if it is OFF, the circuit to depress the stator Ignition coils output - GY, pins 16/17 and 18, Black wire to pin 5, connection to pin 4 and Light Green to the stator - will not work either. frown

. A possible confirmation test for this would be to turn the Lighting Switch to "L" - turning on the pilot, speedometer and tail lamps - while watching a Voltmeter connected across the battery?

Originally Posted By Carlos
lets not waste more time in this
need to check alternator.

Sorry, but I believe you have to start again:-

1. All your posts about "IGN"/"ON" and "EMG" are wrong. frown

2. From post #624490 (6th November):-
Originally Posted By Carlos
Bike running in EMG mode will charge the battery ... it reach's 8.7V with high RPMs

This was really switched to "Normal Ignition On", what is wrong with nearly 9 Volts from the alternator? confused

From post #625238 (11 November):-
Originally Posted By Carlos
Yesterday, i went back to check, why the bike didn't start in ON mode.
I found out battery was dead, (probably due to the inverted new rectifier)...so another new one was placed
i checked the charging voltage, and it was a steady 6.3Volts with or without lights ON.

What "another new one was placed", rectifier or battery?

If it was a new rectifier that was "placed", are you still using the battery that was fitted when the "inverted" rectifier was also fitted?

If so, no-one has explained how the "inverted" rectifier, and/or a tiny 6V battery, could have "demagnetized the alternator rotor" when the engine was running?

But, as I suggested in post #625846 (15 November), much more likely is DC from the "inverted rectifier", going the 'wrong' way through the bike's electrics, damaged the battery? That would be more likely why you can now only measure "6.3Volts with or without lights ON"?

Hope this helps.

Regards,

#626021 - 11/17/15 8:22 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Stuart]  
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Carlos Offline
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Portugal
Hi Stuart and follow members.

First..thank you again, so much for the help you are giving me so far.
and having a patience and heart of a whale size smile

This is a "pain in the ass", with so many variables...Now Ignition Cap is wrong...rrrrrrrrrrrrr
Well i always said that something was wrong with switch, and that's why i already changed the BlackWhite with Black wire (i have cut the wires and cross them pin15<->18).
(from know on, when we all say ON or EMG, it will be the correct position of ON and EMG...so we dont get confused anymore)


"Sorry, but I believe you have to start again:-"
And i will not give-up!

1. All your posts about "IGN"/"ON" and "EMG" are wrong.
Yes..so its the wrong cap for 63SA switch frown

2. From post #624490 (6th November):-
Originally Posted By Carlos
Bike running in EMG mode will charge the battery ... it reach's 8.7V with high RPMs

This no longer applies, since i have changed the alternator connections to their correct place/colors combination. i didnt do the test you suggested in post #624729. But i may do it next time just to be sure.
So after inserting new rectifier and new battery, and changing alternator connections. the bike starts now in ON mode but not in EMG mode.

From post #625238 (11 November):-
Originally Posted By Carlos
Yesterday, i went back to check, why the bike didn't start in ON EMG mode.
I found out battery was dead, (probably due to the inverted new rectifier)...so another new one was placed
i checked the charging voltage, and it was a steady 6.3Volts with or without lights ON.


Its still true from my yesterdays testing (16-11-2015).
I put in a new full charged battery and tried 3 different rectifiers (i know all 3 are in working order)
Bike only starts in ON mode, and voltage does not climb above 6.3V with or without lights on.

IMPORTANT! - I also found out something that may help:
When i remove the BlackPurple wire from "-" of rectifier to pin13, the bike now starts at ON and EMG mode. Of course the battery does not charge and will drain fast if i switch the lights on. (remember that i use 3 diferent rectifiers with same result) Why??????

Well, Since i tested all the wire connections, switch, rectifier, battery etc in the bike, it leads me to Alternator. Would a bad coil alternator cause such symptom?

So i removed the side cover to check it:
The rotor is 70mm. Coils exposed (old style). RM13?
I think that stator doesn't have the original connections. Coil interconnections where exposed, but soldered and have good conductivity! Someone may have messed with it. (Blue, brown and black coming from alternator instead of original colors)



- Magnetism in rotor seems strong enough (what ever this means)..it can pull and old a screwdriver on each magnet.
- Clearance from rotor to coils are not the same. stator doesn't seem to be perfectly centered. but it doesn't scratch anywhere.
- As seen in pictures, Nut that holds rotor it just tight with 2 or 3 threads. it seems low and dangerous.
- Bearing as no noticeable play.

I dont have a 1ohm resistor to make the alternator load-testing just like repair manual. If you have a simple Technic to test it, let me know.
If not...i will next time, exchange this stator with the C15 i(still to confirm its compatible).
There is also a friend of a friend that is restoring also a B40, that maybe i can also try if he lend it to me.
Good literature here:
http://www.bsa-oc.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/588_MOTORCYCLE_ALTERNATORS_MODELS_RM13,_14,_13:15,_15_AND_5AF.PDF

If stator is wrongly connected or as bad coils, will all of this symptoms apply?
- Alternator Voltage does not climb above battery voltage (no matter RPM) and only starts in ON mode.
- Disconnecting "-" wire rectifier, allows bike start in ON and EMG (no charging occurs)

What a mess...and sorry for that.
Hope everything is clear to you all, so you can keep me on track for this mystery!

My only suspect..is the Stator frown

Regards
Carlos

Last edited by Carlos; 11/17/15 11:02 am.
#626116 - 11/17/15 8:10 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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chaterlea25 Online content
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Cork Ireland
Hi Carlos
Please refer back to the method of testing the alternator with the 12 volt 60watt bulb I posted previously
The test works and identifies the wires no matter what colour they are now

HTH
John

#626118 - 11/17/15 8:27 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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Hi Carlos, you also deserve some sort of award for trying to mend a weirdo old bike in a 2nd language, Ive no specific help to add but i will make these observations.

The EMG position, is difficult to use even with a flat battery , the kickstart is normally not enough , a running bump is usually needed.

I worked in the electricity generation business, alternators are replaced after 25 years or so, the insulation gets broken down with oil and heat, eventually the core stampings ( iron laminations ) start shorting internally and add heat stress.
A good test of the alternator is to see if a 50 W lamp held across the various pairs will light ( someone already mentioned this). One pair will be brighter than the others. No light or very dim means a failure. Even at kicking speeds you should see a glimmer in the filaments, with the motor running at higher than tickover the lamp should light brightly.

Your stator leads have been replaced with what looks like domestic wiring, brown blue and black, nothing wrong with that if its been done well at the stator ends.

BITD , it was common to rewire with a Zener Diode and change the battery, rectifier, lamps and coil to 12 Volts, its a good upgrade and much simpler than the hellish complexity of the EMG and lighting coils. This mod has two of the stator cores connected together , the alternator runs at full output all the time and no EMG position is needed. See the late 60 s wiring diagrams for BSA singles, its simpler , more reliable, and has a slightly higher output ( 12 Volts has less I squared R losses than 6 volts ), you seem smart enough to do this, save yourself from a complicated nightmare and upgrade to late 60s tech. You will need a wiring loom for a B44, B25 or similar. The switches could even be re used ( god forbid) , but with simpler wiring.
Unless your friend is hell bent on keeping it dead stock at 6 volts this is a very good idea.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#626145 - 11/18/15 3:05 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: gavin eisler]  
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Nick Offline
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Out There!
Why not just forget the stock wiring and simply use two toggle switches? One for lights, one for ignition. Make your own simple wiring loom to suit. Very simple, very easy, very reliable.

Get rid of all that 50-year-old electrical junk. And yes, 12V is better.


When people who should have known better cautioned me about the dangers of motorcycle racing, I always told them that a fear of death is nothing more than a fear of life in disguise.
#626147 - 11/18/15 4:42 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Nick]  
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quinten Online content
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Test the stator with the 1 ohm resistor .

you have done amazingly well up to this point .

It will be interesting to see how many watts
A 60+ year old RM13 / 70mm rotor can deliver .
.

#626153 - 11/18/15 6:00 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
Joined: Dec 2004
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kommando Online content
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Scotland
Late 60's Unit single wiring


#626162 - 11/18/15 8:10 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: kommando]  
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Carlos Offline
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Portugal
Hi everyone.

Thank you again for all tips so far.

First i will do the 12V bulb test~to stator phases.
Then a load test..but:

1 Ohm 100W resistor are expensive...and i have no use for it in future! Chinese resistors are cheaper,but will take forever to arrive in Portugal.
Ill check if i can buy a cheaper one locally, or how can i build an accurate one with Nichrome wire (savage from a heat element).

I already convinced my friend to upgrade to 12Volts..YES! (preferably with electronic regulator instead of Zener), but i cant move to that step, if i cant put the bike working right with 6V first. (yes i am a persevering person smile )
A good working 6Volts bike would tell me that switches, wires and alternator where ok for 12V conversion...especially a good stator!
There is no doubt that if stator is bad, he will buy a new 12V 2 wire.

You all having been of a great help.
Thank you for that.

I only have 14 years experience in electronics, optical, RF, microwave, high speed digital etc, in very complex schemes and PCBs.

It really hurts, taking so long to resolve an issue in such a simple scheme. First finding the correct scheme, then trying to understand what previous mechanics/electricians done to the wires...rrrrrrr. Challenging at least smile.
I am not a "fan" of electromagnetism, even though i have build Axial flux wind generators, and wounded coils for stators my self smile

So has i am a rookie..keep things simple to me smile

With kind regards
Carlos

Last edited by Carlos; 11/18/15 2:18 pm.
#626217 - 11/18/15 2:22 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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Carlos Offline
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I said:
"Ill check if i can buy a cheaper one locally, or how can i build an accurate one with Ni-chrome wire (savage from a heat element)."

Well, after thinking a bit about this, i guess i can use a 1 Ohm 10W or even several ones of lower watts (2W, 1/2W) and dive them to a small empty paint can filled with oil for cooling. smile

With this method, it seems they can hold almost 10000% more heat dissipation!
I saw a guy that tested this.

Those resistors should withstand 100W or even more for brief periods during the alternator test/readings. wink

I hope so..lol
kind regards
Carlos

Last edited by Carlos; 11/18/15 2:24 pm.
#626258 - 11/18/15 9:15 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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quinten Online content
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quinten  Online Content
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Pacific northwest

Carlos , you dont need the 1ohm dummy load .
All you need is the resistance of the load and the voltage under load to determine the gross output
from 2 coils , 4 coils or the complete stator .

Someone like me needs the 1ohm load ,
because ,
even when I do the math wrong
I get the right answer .

Use a headlight or even an incandescent lightbulb from the nearest house .
Measure its resistance .
Measure the voltage under load ... and plug in the numbers to get watts .

.

#626305 - 11/19/15 8:46 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: quinten]  
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Carlos Offline
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Originally Posted By quinten

Use a headlight or even an incandescent lightbulb from the nearest house .
Measure its resistance .
Measure the voltage under load ... and plug in the numbers to get watts .


Since light-bulb resistance changes (cold filament VS hot filament) you cannot use it for correct math smile

Last night i build a 1 Ohm resistor 35W (0.9999R to be exact...several 5W, 2x 82R,1x 12R, 5x 5.6R all in parallel)
I will dive them into a can of oil so they can old 100W for briefly periods if needed.

I have another quick question...
Can someone confirm that coils layout in stator, are like picture bellow:


It will help me to figure out if coils connections where done correctly.(between coils)
If stator coil measurements, produce low output, i could also disconnect all coils joining points, and reconnect them again for something that i can comprehend..and change wire colors to the correct ones.
I know..coils can also be defective without showing.

Thx
Carlos

#626350 - 11/19/15 2:10 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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quinten Online content
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quinten  Online Content
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Pacific northwest

Quote:
Last night i build a 1 Ohm resistor 35W (0.9999R to be exact...several 5W, 2x 82R,1x 12R, 5x 5.6R all in parallel)I will dive them into a can of oil so they can old 100W for briefly periods if needed


Cant you run this , more safety , in series as a shunt resistor to a headlight load
And measure voltage from before and after the resistor ?

.

#628546 - 12/03/15 6:51 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: quinten]  
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Carlos Offline
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Hi Everyone.

I think problem is solved (at least the major ones).

I did the alternator testing, first with 12V light bulb, and my ohms reading/calculations done weeks ago where correct. Alternator was correctly connected.

Then, i done a load testing (DC Amps, seires with -ve from battery) just like the alternator repair manual:
- Normal operation (Lights off) - +/-2000RPM 2.3A
- Coil in max power connection (GY connected to GB) - +/-5000RPM 9A

Everything was not perfect, when lights off, i was charging with 1.5A (close to idle RPM), but with lights on, i was draining 0.8A from battery, @2000RPM, and almost 0A at 5000RPM.

Man...i was about to give up, and the second bottle of wine was already dry, when my friend told me that he already have changed the headlight bulb in the past...35W bulb he said...Hummm.
I am not sure what wattage should the bulb be, but since its an old bike, maybe 25W was the correct one.
Made some calculations and yes, to much amps drained for the alternator capacity. (ignition coil, rear light, headlight consumption)
So we inserted a 25W headlight and voila. Now charging 0.5A @ idle, 1.5A @ 2000RPM, and 2,5-3A @5000RPM with lights ON.

Numbers seem correct to me...and i say, problem solved...maybe!

Well, there's still a problem...bike does not start in EMG mode. frown
Why? i dont know...maybe from 5.8Volts (the lowest we went) to full charged battery (6.5Volts), the battery does not allow the bike to start in EMG mode. Is this correct?

I notice that if i remove the purple wire that goes from negative of rectifier to ignition switch (pin13) the bike would now start in EMG mode. (may this is the safe mode mechanism, not allowing the bike to start because battery is full, just like manuals state)

Well, it doesn't matter anymore...Now that i know that alternator is fairly good, wires and switches are working, we are moving to 12Volts conversion.

So questions will continue, and your help is appreciated...once again.

How to convert the bike to 12Volts.
- connect GY to GB for max alternator output.
- Change light bulbs to 12V
- dont need to change horn (it will scream loader :))
- Change coil to 12V (any 12V coil will do???) doubts?
- I dont want to use zener, like scheme posted by Kommando.
- I want to use a regulator/rectifier, which models? How many watts?
(A Scooter 50CC regulator, costs 20euros here in Portugal)
- Can i remove the battery with this conversion? Should i put i capacitor instead of battery for better DC? (bike doesn't need blink lights)

So if you want to share some "lights" in the EMG starting problem, please do it...i would love to understand why the bike doesn't start in that mode before i do the 12V conversion.

If not smile...please share me a "lighthouse" of advice for conversion to 12V.

Best regards
Carlos

#628547 - 12/03/15 7:06 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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NickL Online content
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Regulator: http://www.eBay.com.au/itm/Regulator-Rectifier-5-Way-Male-Plug-Fit-Fot-Honda-CB250-1100XX-/151329277076?hash=item233bed8494gQZ0AAMXQysxR~HBA

Coil: 12v Primary 4 Ohms approx

Alternator: Connect GY-GB

Horn: Either put second unit in series or fit 12v unit.

Lamps: all 12v. (Possible LED's)

Capacitor if you want it: 4700uf 35vdc wkg minimum Rc 3A min . (not absolutely necessary)



#628566 - 12/03/15 10:38 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: NickL]  
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Carlos Offline
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Thank you Nick for the info.

Will my friend be able to ride the bike without battery?
It would be a plus for the conversion.

Coil:
12V coil 4 Ohms primary...that seem to be specific.
I am not sure i will be able to find 1, in a shop, using those words smile
People sell things for motorcycle brands and models. frown
Can someone advise me, a coil that can be found in motorcycles brands and models?


Rectifier/regulator:

the suggested SH603-12 (Honda rectifier/regulator) is a bit expensive here (>60euros)...maybe i will get one from China.
...but it would be nice to have more suggestions.

Kind regards
Carlos

#628638 - 12/03/15 7:18 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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NickL Online content
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Use 12v 'Lucas type' motorcycle coil for classic/vintage BSA/Triumph motorbike as description.

With a Capacitor you can ride with no battery.

Those regulators are a type i have tested and are using on my own bikes, they are rated for use on the big Hondas. They work very well.
Most of these regulator units now come from China, don't be fooled by the label or the dealer.



#628641 - 12/03/15 7:32 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: NickL]  
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quinten Online content
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quinten  Online Content
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Pacific northwest

Quote:
Coil:12V coil 4 Ohms primary...that seem to be specific.I am not sure i will be able to find 1, in a shop, using those words People sell things for motorcycle brands and models. Can someone advise me, a coil that can be found in motorcycles brands and models?


How cheap do you want to go ?
What is the ohms of the current 6volt coil ?
Add a 1 or 1.5 ohm ballast resistor in series , to reach 3.5~4.0 ohm
and you're good to go with the 6v coil.

.

#630035 - 12/14/15 10:34 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: quinten]  
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Carlos Offline
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Hi everyone,

I am going to start this conversion, but i would like to ask another question.

My friend got a SH638-12 instead of the SH603-12 rectifier/regulator.
Is this ok?
I cannot find datasheets of this parts, so i am not able to compare them.

Already have the coil, capacitor and light bulbs.

Should i cut wires from ignition switch and light switch or everything can be left in place.

Lets hope everything goes ok.

Kind regards
Carlos

#630060 - 12/14/15 2:17 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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quinten Online content
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quinten  Online Content
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I found one reference on [url=danish e-bay]http://www.ebay.de/itm/REGLER-HONDA-CBR-...0-/280777734590[/url]

Looks like a 3phase regulator used on many hondas ... made by shindegen .
Just use 2 of the 3phase inputs and it should work fine

.

#630503 - 12/17/15 4:30 pm Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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Carlos Offline
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Thanks Quiten,

Will try to start conversion in 1 hour smile

My friend only found 45W headbulb...old 35W can no longer be bought frown
hummm it seems to much for the generator.
Its this ok or should i try to lower the power? 35W, 25W? and buy some from internet?

Kind regards
Carlos

#630580 - 12/18/15 5:55 am Re: BSA B40 Electric help...a short circuit somewhere! [Re: Carlos]  
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Carlos Offline
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Bad news.

I was able to put the bike running at 12V, but because i was using a battery. (4ohms 12V coil, SH638-12 regulator/rectifier, stator connected to full output)
I have check with ammeter and voltmeter, and Bike does not charge battery frown
Draws 3A to 4A when running without lights on, and about 6.5A with lights on.
Regulator/retifier seems well connected (SH638-12)

I removed the battery and inserted the capacitor instead.
There is no spark in spark-plug.
I Checked the voltage at capacitor, and i only have DC 3V "spikes" when kicking bike. It is to low to coil create a spark!

So i turned my self to the stator again.
Before someone asks..yes i had the shunt between "GY" and "DG" stator wires.
I Removed everything (all wires) and checked each coil.
Light bulb test was ok. (test to heck each pair of coils)
I connected the old rectifier to one pair (WG-GY) and got 3.5V with foot kicking, then made the same thing to the other (WG-GB), and got the same 3.5V DC with foot kick.

I then inserted the shunt between GY-GB. Inserted the rectifier and got only 2.9V DC with foot kick.
Again too low for the coil produce a spark.

I found the number in stator:


What else can i do? the stator as too low output for 12V conversion?
Is this low voltage expected but i am doing something wrong?

I will open a new thread for this conversion, since the original 6V electrics where running ok now.

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=630581&#Post630581

Kind regards
Carlos










Last edited by Carlos; 12/18/15 5:59 am.
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