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OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ #618196
09/19/15 5:24 pm
09/19/15 5:24 pm
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 25
NSW SOUTH COAST AUSTRALIA
F
FRANKCLOCK Offline OP
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FRANKCLOCK  Offline OP
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Posts: 25
NSW SOUTH COAST AUSTRALIA
Hello
I purchased a 1971 Lightning yesterday that had not ran for a while after putting petrol in I found a thin rod fastened to the frame which looked like a homemade dipstick I put it into the frame & made sure oil was there
I started it & after running for a few minutes I opened the oil filler cap & oil gushed out so turned off
this morning I looked at filler hole & oil was still up to the top
can someone help me wit this problem
I had a few thoughts
very clean oil, has someone put this in & not run the bike & overfilled it?
how do i check if all is well
any help would be great
thanks
FRANK
AUSTRALIA

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Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618201
09/19/15 6:34 pm
09/19/15 6:34 pm
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,204
Sydney, Oz
S
Shane in Oz Offline

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Sydney, Oz
There is a ball and spring behind the oil pump which is supposed to stop oil draining past the pump into the crankcase, but over time these quite often won't seat fully. The result is that the oil drains into the crankcase (wet jumping) and the level in the tank is low.
Once you ran the motor for a while, the oil pumped back into the tank and overfilled it. It was probably blowing smoke from the left hand exhaust for a while as well, which is fairly typical of wet sumping. Just drop a bit of oil out to get it back to the right level, and keep an eye on it.

If you're in the Sydney area, drop in to the next meeting - Regent's Park bowling club, Thursday 1st @ 8pm

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: Shane in Oz] #618207
09/19/15 7:11 pm
09/19/15 7:11 pm
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 25
NSW SOUTH COAST AUSTRALIA
F
FRANKCLOCK Offline OP
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NSW SOUTH COAST AUSTRALIA
Thanks mate
I have just drained the oil & got out about 3 1/2 ltrs which is just over 6 pints so perhaps thats the reason
I have drained the frame & sump & am cleaning up
I will refill with correct amount hopefully later today after making a couple of gaskets
this is the first A65 I have ever owned so am looking forwards to riding it after many years of riding & owning many bikes
I used to race A65 in sidecar outfits when I lived in England many years ago so this helped my decision to buy one
I live in Shellharbour so its a bit of a journey to get to your meetings but will certainly join the club
thanks
FRAN

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: Shane in Oz] #618220
09/19/15 8:36 pm
09/19/15 8:36 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 313
Bowral NSW Australia
John Goodwin Offline
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Bowral NSW Australia
Originally Posted by Shane in Oz


If you're in the Sydney area, drop in to the next meeting - Regent's Park bowling club, Thursday 1st @ 8pm


+ 1 on that, it's a good club :bigt


Current: 2 x 1966 A65S, 1 x 1967 A65SA, 1 x 69/70? A65LA space Y, 1 X D14/4 & 1 x B175
Past: 4 x 1976 T160V, 1 74/5 T150V, 83 model GSX 750 ESD, Z650, Katana 1100(Bathurst Model), 79 T140V, 70's TR6, 2 x 1971 BSA 250 Gold Stars, 50's 350 Goldie, A65 Spitfire semi basket case, 1965/6? A65 LC, Tiger 21 350 & a D14/4 Bantam, 175 Bridgestone Twin with Zimmerman discs!
Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618226
09/19/15 10:32 pm
09/19/15 10:32 pm
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,204
Sydney, Oz
S
Shane in Oz Offline

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Sydney, Oz
Originally Posted by FRANKCLOCK
I live in Shellharbour so its a bit of a journey to get to your meetings but will certainly join the club

It must be tough living that close to Macquarie Pass, Kangaroo Valley and Fitzroy Falls. You'd never be able to decide whether to do the loop clockwise or anti-clockwise.

We have a Shoalhaven branch, mostly in the Nowra and Kiama area, so definitely get in touch with them. They're a great bunch.

It might be a it late in the year, but the BSA National Rally is in SA this year. A few of us are heading over from Sydney and picking up a mate at Albury on the way, so let me know if you're interested in coming.

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: Shane in Oz] #618227
09/19/15 10:34 pm
09/19/15 10:34 pm
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 25
NSW SOUTH COAST AUSTRALIA
F
FRANKCLOCK Offline OP
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FRANKCLOCK  Offline OP
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F

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 25
NSW SOUTH COAST AUSTRALIA
I have put bike together after making new gaskets refilled with correct amount of oil
started it & oil is pumping out of the return pipe
fantastic
now onto other work on it
thanks all

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618246
09/20/15 4:37 am
09/20/15 4:37 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,283
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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Gnashville
Sounds great Frank.
Just remember to check the oil level soon after a ride. If you check before starting the engine it will probably be a bit low, but this is normal. You might do well to check right after a ride, then again once the bike sits for a day or two and note the difference.
BTW: The dip stick might not be home-made, the OIF models came with one. It should have two marks on it, the distance between the two is about a pint.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618295
09/20/15 2:07 pm
09/20/15 2:07 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
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Ger B Offline
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Quote
a thin rod fastened to the frame which looked like a homemade dipstick

Quote
dip stick might not be home-made, the OIF models came with one


The photo below shows an original BSA OIF dipstick.
It hooks onto or hangs on the bar in the filler hole.

The picture was sent to me by a BritBike member so I could fabricate my own.
I will... One day I will... grin

[Linked Image]

Untill that day this helps me. Two tyraps (not permanently inside the tank).

[Linked Image]


Ger B

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: Ger B] #618366
09/21/15 2:58 am
09/21/15 2:58 am
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 25
NSW SOUTH COAST AUSTRALIA
F
FRANKCLOCK Offline OP
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NSW SOUTH COAST AUSTRALIA
thanks for the photos of the dipstick
could you please tell me where on the stick are the 2 marks & Iwill attempt to make one
thanks for the info

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618368
09/21/15 3:44 am
09/21/15 3:44 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
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Ger B Offline
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Quote
could you please tell me where on the stick are the 2 marks

I'm sorry, mate. I can't.
All I have is this photo of the stick, sent to me by another BritBike member. I do not remember who.

But you can apply the marks afterwards.
Make the stick.
Fill the frame / tank with the minimum allowed amount of oil.
See where the level is on the stick. There's your lower mark.
Fill the tank to the upper level. That's the level of your upper mark.

But keep in mind: make sure your sump (crankcase) is empty before you top up the frame.


Ger B

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618382
09/21/15 7:16 am
09/21/15 7:16 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,229
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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Posts: 4,229
argyll. scotland, uk
The upper mark is about a half inch below the bar the dip stick rests on, lower an inch or more. I need to check mine. beyond that
If you fill tooo much, up to the cap brim, oil will be ejected from the tank breather after heavy braking on down hill sections when oil will run up the top frame tube, that breather at the headstock gusset is important to prevent a hellish mess.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 09/21/15 7:50 pm.

71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618420
09/21/15 11:44 am
09/21/15 11:44 am
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,694
UK Berks
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AngloBike Offline
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UK Berks
I assume that the oil levels are the same on Triumph and BSAs using the same frame?
There were two versions of the triumph frame, but later bikes come with a captive dipstick on the oil filler and are available.
http://www.eBay.co.uk/itm/like/1313...122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80

Last edited by AngloBike; 09/21/15 11:45 am.
Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618424
09/21/15 12:26 pm
09/21/15 12:26 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
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Ger B Offline
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I wonder if the stick on the cap will pass the bar the
original stick hangs (or is supposed to hang) on.


Ger B

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618436
09/21/15 2:05 pm
09/21/15 2:05 pm
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Ger B Offline
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It's even more ridiculous than I thought, unless the Triumph OIF-frame is very different from the BSA OIF-frame:
The dipstick on the cover points 45 degr to the horizontal, so directly towards the inner corner of the bent pipe.
Not downward - 90 degr to the horizontal - into the straight down part of the pipe.


Ger B

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: gavin eisler] #618464
09/21/15 6:10 pm
09/21/15 6:10 pm
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 25
NSW SOUTH COAST AUSTRALIA
F
FRANKCLOCK Offline OP
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FRANKCLOCK  Offline OP
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NSW SOUTH COAST AUSTRALIA
thanks for the replies from everyone now I know where the upper level should be I can get something organised
I saw an ad for a dipstick fastened to the filler cap & I worked out where the max is, so thats one job today
thanks again

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618474
09/21/15 7:56 pm
09/21/15 7:56 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,229
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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argyll. scotland, uk
Quick, and permanent fix, , get a 10 " length of coat hanger wire, bend one end to a tight "P" shape, dangle it , make one notch a 1/2 " ich below the rest . and another 2" down. Done, make it in 1/8 th alloy wire , to save weight if you can.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618521
09/22/15 4:26 am
09/22/15 4:26 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
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Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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Quote
I saw an ad for a dipstick fastened to the filler cap

What I saw looked like this:
[Linked Image]
a: you will not get it in.
b: the level indicated is too high.

A level just into the bend of the neck is high enough. It will give you some spare space if your crankcase replenishes some unexpected oil.
As Gavin said: "1/2 inch below the rest" is a perfect upper level.
I usually go up to the rest but that's a personal preference.


Ger B

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: Ger B] #618524
09/22/15 4:50 am
09/22/15 4:50 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,816
OZ
Triless Offline
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OZ
The dipstick is actually articulate to the cap. In other words, the bloody thing droops!

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: Triless] #618527
09/22/15 5:17 am
09/22/15 5:17 am
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Ger B Offline
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Quote
The dipstick is actually articulate to the cap. In other words, the bloody thing droops!

Do we talk the same cap? It's not a push in cap but a threaded cap.

What I found is this.

The suppier mentions: @this assembly will not work for the bigger twins
where the rod is required to bend slightly or have a pivot.@

[Linked Image]
If it's supposed to have a pivot it would have to be a 360 degree ball joint, 1-1/2 inch below the cap.
Slightly bent will not allow it to be turned in the thread.


Ger B

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: Ger B] #618531
09/22/15 5:44 am
09/22/15 5:44 am
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,204
Sydney, Oz
S
Shane in Oz Offline

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Sydney, Oz
That looks like a B25/B50 dipstick. The filler neck is vertical at the front of the frame.

The T140 version has a pivot where it attaches to the cap so the dipstick just dangles down instead of sticking out. (I think I've said too much already)

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618535
09/22/15 6:13 am
09/22/15 6:13 am
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AngloBike Offline
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http://www.eBay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-O...c-1973-/321411738295?hash=item4ad5a1eab7

the Triumph one has a ball and socket arrangement

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: Shane in Oz] #618537
09/22/15 6:23 am
09/22/15 6:23 am
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Ger B Offline
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Quote
dangles down instead of sticking out...

... is the best description possible here, Shane. laughing

Quote
the Triumph one has a ball and socket arrangement

That will work, although I think the upper level is a bit high for the BSA OIF twins.


Ger B

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: Ger B] #618538
09/22/15 6:39 am
09/22/15 6:39 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,816
OZ
Triless Offline
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OZ
Thats what articulate means. To connect by a joint. Thats what the oil filler cap is like on my 1976 T140V, owned from new. So, something I can say I"m familiar with!
But, yes, the cap in Ger"s pic is not as used in the OIF twins. They have a flattened
end with the level marks, and with the later ones, the actual dipstick part was plastic.

Last edited by Triless; 09/22/15 6:45 am.
Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: FRANKCLOCK] #618540
09/22/15 6:44 am
09/22/15 6:44 am
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Ger B Offline
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Did I step on your ingrown toe nail Triless?



Ger B

Re: OIL IN FRAME HELP REQ [Re: Ger B] #618541
09/22/15 6:47 am
09/22/15 6:47 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,816
OZ
Triless Offline
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OZ
No, not at all.I should have been more accurate in my original reply.

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