BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
JWood Auction JRC Engineering dealers JWood Auction
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Member Spotlight
TONUP69
TONUP69
Memphis, TN
Posts: 359
Joined: June 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
207 registered members (57nortonmodel77), 2,350 guests, and 679 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
myshootingstar68, Caddy, Spitfiregary, Ashley, HerbertG
10073 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Lannis 85
koan58 82
NickL 81
Stuart 64
Popular Topics(Views)
503,301 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics66,021
Posts638,985
Members10,073
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: John Healy] #614114
08/22/15 9:14 pm
08/22/15 9:14 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
perfect.tommy Online content
BritBike Forum member
perfect.tommy  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
Well, it certainly wouldn't be the first time I was mistaken!


1970 Triumph Tiger
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!
Membership Type! Free
Member
Premium
Member
Premium Life
Member
Vendor
Member
Site
Sponsor
Recognition No Premium Member Premium Life member (5 years) Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
Post commercial threads No No No Yes Yes
Custom title No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Upload avatar & photos No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Link avatar & photos Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Private Message Storage: 10 100 100 100 100
Length of signatures 255 600 600 600 600
Removes this very advert island between post 1&2 No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Price Free $12.90/year $105.00 No End
$55.00/5 years
$210.00/year
($17.50/month)
Email
Click on button >>
  Premium Member Premium Life member Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: desco] #614118
08/22/15 9:34 pm
08/22/15 9:34 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,664
Pacific northwest
Q
quinten Online confused
BritBike Forum member
quinten  Online Confused
BritBike Forum member
Q
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,664
Pacific northwest
Originally Posted By desco
You are better off starting a new post than digging one up from five months ago
It's not clear clear to me if you are running with or without oil.

Why haven't you started a new post ? This has nothing to do with this thread , without anewpost itsalljustonrebigrunonsentence.

I know what problem is , but ...

Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: quinten] #614122
08/22/15 9:58 pm
08/22/15 9:58 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
perfect.tommy Online content
BritBike Forum member
perfect.tommy  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
I posted in this thread because it is a problem related to primary chain tension. And because there are a lot of experienced people on this thread already.

Unfortunately, many of the threads on the forum are populated by opinions and conjecture from backyard mechanics. No offence.

With landspeed record bikes and John already on this thread, it seemed the fastest way to an authoritative answer.


1970 Triumph Tiger
Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: perfect.tommy] #614127
08/22/15 10:09 pm
08/22/15 10:09 pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,562
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Online content

BritBike Forum member
TR6Ray  Online Content

BritBike Forum member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,562
Illinois, USA
tommy,

It looks to me like a relevant place for your question. I guess I spoke too soon earlier. It seems there are a number of people who run chain wax or grease on their primary chain like you described, with the chaincase otherwise dry. It still seems strange to me, but I'm willing to learn.

In your searching, did you see this post by beltdriveman who used to post on the forum?

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: TR6Ray] #614133
08/22/15 11:25 pm
08/22/15 11:25 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
perfect.tommy Online content
BritBike Forum member
perfect.tommy  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
Ray,

Ha, I've tried to read his posts but had difficulty getting through them, mostly because his lack of paragraph breaks. They are large blocks of text!

I did read that through just now and it was interesting. The more i think about my scenario, i think that without an oil bath and not enough ventilation, everything just got too hot. The tensioner blade melted off. The stator expanded and rubbed on the rotor. That generated more heat. The chain was dry on disassembly. The heat and centrifugal force flung it off.

John i found the post I was referring to, and not only was it not you, it was on another forum altogether. My apologies to you, sir.

I'll run an oil bath until my belt system comes back. My crankshaft to mainshaft CTC distances were wide resulting in a very tight belt. A smaller pulley is being made and I'm running the stock clutch now in the meantime. I'll look at more adequate ventilation at that time.

Thanks for the link, Ray.


1970 Triumph Tiger
Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: perfect.tommy] #614140
08/23/15 1:14 am
08/23/15 1:14 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,394
OZ
Triless Online content
BritBike Forum member
Triless  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,394
OZ
What I 've found over time is that the button on the end of the trunnion adjuster rod is too small, and as a result, suffers from wear which could cause it to pull through. Adjuster slackens off! I fit a thicker, larger diameter washer which spreads the load here.

Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: Triless] #614146
08/23/15 2:04 am
08/23/15 2:04 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
perfect.tommy Online content
BritBike Forum member
perfect.tommy  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
I have had the lobes of the adjuster get so worn that under tension it did itself undone. Totally know what you mean.


1970 Triumph Tiger
Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: perfect.tommy] #614281
08/23/15 8:32 pm
08/23/15 8:32 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,272
Back on the mainland!
JubeePrince Online content

Life member
JubeePrince  Online Content

Life member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,272
Back on the mainland!
Originally Posted By perfect.tommy

Unfortunately, many of the threads on the forum are populated by opinions and conjecture from backyard mechanics.


I resemble that remark!! laughing

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: perfect.tommy] #614301
08/23/15 11:11 pm
08/23/15 11:11 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,654
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content

fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,654
ohio, usa
Originally Posted By perfect.tommy
My crankshaft to mainshaft CTC distances were wide resulting in a very tight belt. A smaller pulley is being made and I'm running the stock clutch now in the meantime. I'll look at more adequate ventilation at that time.


who made the belt drive, tommy?

i have a newby i'm going to be putting into a 1970 T120, and i don't know yet if there will be any CTC issues on it. i'm curious about your solution, should i have difficulties.


live every day.
die once.
Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: Hillbilly bike] #614307
08/24/15 12:42 am
08/24/15 12:42 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
perfect.tommy Online content
BritBike Forum member
perfect.tommy  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
It's a Bob Newby belt drive. And it really is a work of art.

I don't know if 1970 was a particularly bad year for tolerances and quality control at Meriden, but John Healy has a very wide set of cases here:

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=596119#Post596119

Bob's current belt design (twenty years old now) was based on a set of "wide cases". He claims he hasn't run into a problem since. But when I sent my measurements he confirmed that my CTC distance was .070" wider than spec, and .040" wider than the set of cases he based his design on.

He is currently working on a smaller pulley/basket to accommodate this. My belt was very tight when cold, and of course it only gets tighter as the cases warm up. This can lead to all sorts of problems, including broken gearboxes.

I did have an issue with the end of my gearbox mainshaft being uncomfortably close to the pressure plate. Bob sent another steel clutch plate, but said that the feel of the clutch engagement would be different. Bob's normal clutch setup has the pressure plate engaging with a fibre plate, not steel. I chose to have my machinist take .200" off the mainshaft instead. Bob said he hadn't come across that type of clearance issue before, but I did find a Vincent owner on another forum that had to turn down his mainshaft as well.

The clutch pushrod will need shortening, and I would get your machinist to round the end into a bullet shape. The adjuster pin on the PP is concave, so if the pushrod is square it has a tendency to try to walk out.

I would also consider an MAP belt system as it retains the cush drive. There is worthy debate about wether or not the belt alone is adequate. I am not qualified to answer that, but in retrospect I would probably opt for a cush drive on a street bike. I haven't asked Marino if he has provisions for extra wide CTC cases, but you could certainly give him a call and ask.

Last edited by perfect.tommy; 08/24/15 12:44 am.

1970 Triumph Tiger
Re: And another kinked primary chain [Re: kevin roberts] #614308
08/24/15 1:09 am
08/24/15 1:09 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
perfect.tommy Online content
BritBike Forum member
perfect.tommy  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
vancouver, canada
Hey Kevin,

It's a Bob Newby belt drive. It really is a work of art. But the belt was tight when the engine was cold, which just means it gets tighter as the engine gets hot. This can introduce a number of problems, from broken gearboxes to crankshafts.

I'm not sure if 1970 was a particularly bad year for tolerances and quality control at the Meriden factory, but John Healy has a set of very wide cases here:

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=596119#Post596119

Bob said that he based his most recent design (twenty years old now) on a set of wide CTC cases. My measurements were .040" wider than that, and .070" wider than what it is supposed to be. John's Bonneville cases were .100" wider.

Bob is attempting to make a pulley/basket combination to accommodate this.

I would also consider the MAP belt drive as it retains the cush drive. There is some worthwhile debate about wether or not the belt on its own is adequate. I'm not qualified to answer that, but in retrospect I would be inclined to retain the cush on a street bike. I have not asked Marino at MAP if he has solutions for wide cases, but you could certainly give him a call.

I also had an issue with the end of the gearbox mainshaft being uncomfortably close the the pressure plate. I had my machinist take .200" off the mainshaft. Bob sent me another steel plate, which would have moved the pressure plate further out, but also said the steel plate would feel different on clutch engagement. He said this was a first for him, but i did find a Vincent owner on another forum that had a similar clearance issue.

The clutch basket has no wobble when the clutch is disengaged. It feels lighter and smoother. I am hoping he can work it out for me, because i really do prefer the feel and action of his clutch and belt.


1970 Triumph Tiger
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  John Healy 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.383s Queries: 16 (0.016s) Memory: 1.0927 MB (Peak: 1.2944 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2018-02-21 12:51:38 UTC