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Saturdays Question #603335
06/07/15 8:06 am
06/07/15 8:06 am
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 685
S.W. Pa.
breeze1954 Offline OP
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Lisa and I were going to the spring OVBSA swapmeet Saturday but couldn't decide, should we take the blazer or ride out as we were only hoping to find some BSA kickstart rubbers and a few other small things. Well it is a swapmeet so just in case we did take the blazer and I'm so glad we did. Just look what we drug home for the old flathead. Been wanting a chair on that old nail since I got it years ago. And even more so since I refurbished it a bit 3 or 4 years ago, but could just never seem to make it happen, till now! smile emoticon Now where'd I put that OD green paint?






It will be going on this old girl;



BTW: Id also like to thank everyone in advance for the help to all the questions Im about to start asking smile


beerchug


Nothing ticks you off more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong!

Ride Safe When You Can; Tim

Small print Disclaimer: I am not responsible for spelling, grammar or political correctness. Actually Im not very responsible at all!
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Re: Saturdays Question [Re: breeze1954] #603336
06/07/15 8:22 am
06/07/15 8:22 am
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Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Wow! Good score! That'll look great on the old twin.

I'll be interested to see the questions AND the answers regarding mounting the hack. I understand that its a mysterious art understood only by the initiates .....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Saturdays Question [Re: breeze1954] #603348
06/07/15 9:16 am
06/07/15 9:16 am
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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If you google "sidecar mounting instructions", you'll get at least 18 different (and often conflicting) procedures.

This ought to be good.

One thing you need is a good steering stabiliser.

On mounting to the frame: IF you use any sort of clamps, you need to sandwich the frame tubes in 2 half-sections of stiff but thin pipe, to avoid pinching the frame tubes. More mounts = less likelihood of over-stressing any one point.


Last edited by GrandPaul; 06/07/15 9:17 am.

GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Saturdays Question [Re: breeze1954] #603351
06/07/15 9:32 am
06/07/15 9:32 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,272
North Carolina
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Gordon Gray Offline
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Hey Tim,

NICE!!!!!!!

I'm going to ask you a favor though......we have a sidecar forum and if you don't mind....could you get the Rod and Tappet moderator to move this thread over there?????????

I would be easier for folks interested in outfits to find the information....AND it's just what that forum NEEDS!!!!

Now on to your chair.....I pretty much have the same one on my B44 and I think it'll be a perfect match for your bike. Do keep in mind that it was made for a 350cc bike so it's a "little" light but you shouldn't have any problems.

IF......it were me I would use the Velorex instructions (they are online) as a guide line for stuff like wheel lead and such.

READ.....there's lots of information out there.

Somewhere along the line you'll have to decide whether or not to use a "sub frame" or the Velorex frame clamps.

I use a sub frame.....Bob in NW Pa uses the frame clamps...and I think Barb does too???????

WHEN it comes time to adjust it all.....even though the Velorex instructions say not to.....the experts say to do it with the chair loaded.....and since I'm setting it up that way now...it seems to make sense.

Have you driven a outfit before????

Good luck.....I LOVE mine and I hope you do yours....Pokey (aka Pokey)


Last edited by Gordon Gray; 06/07/15 12:43 pm.
Re: Saturdays Question [Re: Gordon Gray] #603354
06/07/15 9:41 am
06/07/15 9:41 am
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North Carolina
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Gordon Gray Offline
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North Carolina
In your second photo......it looks like the front lower mounting strut is missing????? BUT.....look at the two on the right...the lower and the upper are pretty much in the position you'll want them mounted when you get that far. The lowers need to be at right angles to the bike and the uppers need to be angled out away from each other.

Lonnie Commer (sp?) is getting out of the business and is selling off all his left over Velorex mounting hardware. If your missing some pieces he probably has them.

http://www.sidecar.com/

Good thing is......there is still a Velorex USA you can contact....and a Velorex UK too.

Pokey

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 06/07/15 9:42 am.
Re: Saturdays Question [Re: breeze1954] #603357
06/07/15 10:11 am
06/07/15 10:11 am
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ohio
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Good score, Tim, Have fun with it


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
Re: Saturdays Question [Re: Gordon Gray] #603360
06/07/15 10:22 am
06/07/15 10:22 am
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Posts: 685
S.W. Pa.
breeze1954 Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies guys. I am quite tickled with it!
Gordon, ok Ill try to have it moved, I didnt start a thread in the sidecar forum yet as it will be a bit before I start this project. I have 2 other projects I have to get completed first. Was not ready for it at all and itll probably be winter again before I can get to it. But the price was a take it now and stash it till I can kinda thing.
But I guess that does give me plenty of time for research bigt
Yes I've rode an outfit a few times but not so much to be proficient


beerchug

Last edited by breeze1954; 06/07/15 10:26 am.

Nothing ticks you off more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong!

Ride Safe When You Can; Tim

Small print Disclaimer: I am not responsible for spelling, grammar or political correctness. Actually Im not very responsible at all!
Re: Saturdays Question [Re: breeze1954] #603393
06/07/15 12:51 pm
06/07/15 12:51 pm
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Gordon Gray Offline
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It's all good Tim...I would have loved to get my hands on that thing....I'm looking for another one.

If you look on the plate on frame near the lower rear strut it'll tell you what year it is.

Model 562 but there were a few versions of that one. Probably has the 15mm axle that you'll read about...the newer ones use a 20mm. Mine has the 15mm and it's still straight...I don't plan on it getting abused so it'll stay that way. I have one of those conversion kits for the 20mm axle....but I REALLY don't like the look of the trailer type wheel it uses. Velorex in the UK sells a 20mm kit that still uses the stock wheel.

It's going to make a fine rig and I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

Research Doug Bingham (sp?) and contact him...he's a GREAT fellow to talk to and he'll send you a STACK of information just for the asking.

Now if that darn thing gets in your way....I'll be happy to come get rid of it for you.... laughing

Pokey

Re: Saturdays Question [Re: Gordon Gray] #603466
06/07/15 7:10 pm
06/07/15 7:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,405
SLO County, CA
D.Bachtel Offline
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Originally Posted By Gordon Gray
It's all good Tim...I would have loved to get my hands on that thing....I'm looking for another one.

Pokey


Well, it's a bit farther away than you'd like but I do know of a clean late model 562 out here Gordon. I'll contact and will assist anyone who might be interested in checking it out. I do recommend a sub frame or at least sub assemblies for mounting. Makes a better aeroframe for asymmetrical flight!

Don in Nipomo

Re: Saturdays Question [Re: D.Bachtel] #603468
06/07/15 7:22 pm
06/07/15 7:22 pm
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North Carolina
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Gordon Gray Offline
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Originally Posted By D.Bachtel
Well, it's a bit farther away than you'd like but I do know of a clean late model 562 out here Gordon. I'll contact and will assist anyone who might be interested in checking it out. I do recommend a sub frame or at least sub assemblies for mounting. Makes a better aeroframe for asymmetrical flight!

Don in Nipomo


Well....I do want another one. Got a bigger bike to mount it on and I think the 562 would be a nice fit.

I really don't want to start acting like I know what I'm doing....because it's still so new to me but after that trip to Northern PA last year I feel really comfortable with what I have.

I like the idea of a subframe....and had no clue what one was until you helped me figure it out. Mine's probably way over designed but so far it's been solid as a rock and I have never had to re adjust any of the struts.

Bob in NW Pa BSA uses the clamps and it always has. He has a lot more miles on his rig than I do mine.

Thanks for the heads up but it's probably to far away to make it worth the money.

Looking forward to seeing what Tim comes up with and wish him the best of luck.

I don't want to be without one now that I've tried it.

Pokey

Re: Saturdays Question [Re: Gordon Gray] #603473
06/07/15 7:43 pm
06/07/15 7:43 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,405
SLO County, CA
D.Bachtel Offline
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Originally Posted By Gordon Gray
Originally Posted By D.Bachtel
Well, it's a bit farther away than you'd like but I do know of a clean late model 562 out here Gordon. I'll contact and will assist anyone who might be interested in checking it out. I do recommend a sub frame or at least sub assemblies for mounting. Makes a better aeroframe for asymmetrical flight!

Don in Nipomo


. Got a bigger bike to mount it on and I think the 562 would be a nice fit.



Pokey




So.... drumroll please, what is the new "bigger" that resides in your shop? Time to reveal.
Will it make it to Wichita so we can tour the Coleman Museum together?





Don in Nipomo - meet ya half way!

Re: Saturdays Question [Re: D.Bachtel] #603532
06/08/15 7:11 am
06/08/15 7:11 am
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Posts: 4,272
North Carolina
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Gordon Gray Offline
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North Carolina
Don....the trip across the US will be done on the B44. I'm in the process getting that engine sorted as we speak. I am working on another "wild hair" idea for it. I gave up on the idea of hauling a bike off the side of it.....it just didn't feel right.

The "new" bike is nothing special.....vertical twin, 1975...they made and sold a million of them. I got one for a song and dance ($400) and got it back on the road....it'll make a perfect back up outfit. Very stock XS650B.

Take care.....Pokey

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 06/08/15 7:12 am.
Re: Saturdays Question [Re: breeze1954] #605110
06/17/15 8:46 pm
06/17/15 8:46 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 769
Overland Missouri
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old mule Offline
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Do good research, that bike was made to use a sidecar and needs no subframe. Look at the old tests in Motor Cycling and The Motor Cycle, or their successor magazines, and you'll see dozens of photos of the attachments.
Subframes are for modern thin-tubed frames that were not made with mounting points.
The only complication will be to make a lower rear that does not interfere with one's heel, upon use of the kick starter. The Triumph lower rear mount was for a left-hand sidecar, of course.
It will be a nice machine, look forward to how you will made the sidecar look "period correct" on the handsome Triumph. I suppose you will use a Triumph rear mudguard on the sidecar?

Keep us updated on your progress.

Re: Saturdays Question, So it begins.. [Re: breeze1954] #606145
06/25/15 9:29 pm
06/25/15 9:29 pm
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Posts: 685
S.W. Pa.
breeze1954 Offline OP
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Didnt think Id be starting on this yet but for some reason it wont let me be, So the flathead's out of the barn and now it begins.





Nothing ticks you off more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong!

Ride Safe When You Can; Tim

Small print Disclaimer: I am not responsible for spelling, grammar or political correctness. Actually Im not very responsible at all!
Re: Saturdays Question, So it begins.. [Re: breeze1954] #606582
06/29/15 4:29 pm
06/29/15 4:29 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
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breeze1954 Offline OP
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Well I finally got me a day off work and being as I read the directions I figured I might as well do some fitting up. Heres where I am now. I had to stop before I wanted to today because a few parts are missing, just a few particular nuts and bolts but I want to find the right ones. This thing has all metric and I figure to keep it that way as itll make it a pain down the road if its mixed ( I hate that).








If anyone in the know sees something Im doing wrong or off somehow please school me some, as this is the first one Ive ever tried on my own. Ill post more as soon as I get the fasteners I need.
Also been thinking I might like to try and make my own box for it, something different maybe but not sure yet. Baby steps I think.


Nothing ticks you off more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong!

Ride Safe When You Can; Tim

Small print Disclaimer: I am not responsible for spelling, grammar or political correctness. Actually Im not very responsible at all!
Re: Saturdays Question, So it begins.. [Re: breeze1954] #606635
06/30/15 12:35 am
06/30/15 12:35 am
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 248
NW PA
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BOB in NW PA Offline
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breeze1954 - looks like you're on your way to building a beautiful classic rig. when it's done I suggest doing some miles in a big parking lot. hacks are a totally different critter from a solo bike, and you have to stick with it. 25 years ago when I built my B50/Squire combination, I thought I'd built a monster, having never driven nor ridden in an outfit, but my wife and I hung in there and after about 30 miles it all made sense, in fact we rode a 110 mile Lucas run from Cable's that year, and had a ball, even though we got lost. check out Bob Wark's Sidecar Installation Instructions on his warkshop.com website, you probably already know the Warkman from Marietta, OH he's an old sidecar man and always ready to help you with good advice. I'll be 77 in August and still can start and ride both my outfits, I no longer ride solo bikes, but hope to keep riding for a long time yet. besides, my wife likes to ride in the hack. good luck! Bob Kent, OVBSAOC #3


Bob Kent
Re: Saturdays Question, So it begins.. [Re: BOB in NW PA] #607228
07/04/15 7:22 am
07/04/15 7:22 am
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S.W. Pa.
breeze1954 Offline OP
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No pictures, but the 18mm nuts came from Velorex yesterday so Im going to try and get some time on it today.
One question for now please; I know the lean-out, the toe-in and distance of frame to frame etc, but have found nothing on if it should be level front to back or if front should be lower or higher than back? If not level, I would suppose the front should be down a bit but nothing is mentioned on any print out I got my hands on.


Nothing ticks you off more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong!

Ride Safe When You Can; Tim

Small print Disclaimer: I am not responsible for spelling, grammar or political correctness. Actually Im not very responsible at all!
Re: Saturdays Question, So it begins.. [Re: breeze1954] #607237
07/04/15 8:35 am
07/04/15 8:35 am
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,806
Elburn, Ill. USA
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Irish Swede Online content
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Mount the sidecar, put your passenger in it and see how level it "sits."
Make any up-down adjustment from there.

I personally like the sidecar to appear level. Wind resistance isn't a real problem, because a sidecar rig is aerodynamically "dirty" anyway (unless you're operating a "platform" outfit on a race track.)

A word of advice, from personal experience: Consider mounting a small headlamp somewhere on the sidecar frame, near the wheel. If you have ever ridden with a sidecar at night, you will know about that BIG DARK HOLE ahead of the sidecar which the bike's own headlight won't penetrate.

Re: Saturdays Question, So it begins.. [Re: Irish Swede] #607286
07/04/15 5:06 pm
07/04/15 5:06 pm
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Posts: 685
S.W. Pa.
breeze1954 Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies guys.
I messed with it some today, but needed to do oil change on one of the bikes I ride regular too. Now I got go get cleaned up a bit, we're taking the grandsons to the 7:00 ball game. bigt


beerchug


Nothing ticks you off more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong!

Ride Safe When You Can; Tim

Small print Disclaimer: I am not responsible for spelling, grammar or political correctness. Actually Im not very responsible at all!
Re: Saturdays Question, So it begins.. [Re: BOB in NW PA] #607612
07/07/15 3:13 pm
07/07/15 3:13 pm
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breeze1954 Offline OP
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Ok then, heres some pictures of the mounts. They are the only way Ive found that will let me have the proper lineups the books say I need. I cut some pipe to go around the frame so the clamps are good and snug, but Im wondering about the upper rear. Maybe I shouldnt be as I couldnt get it to move and dont know how else to put it. What yall think, will it stay put? Im thinking to strap some weight on the bare frame just to try it out and see how it does before I start on a tub.






beerchug


Nothing ticks you off more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong!

Ride Safe When You Can; Tim

Small print Disclaimer: I am not responsible for spelling, grammar or political correctness. Actually Im not very responsible at all!
Re: Saturdays Question [Re: breeze1954] #607629
07/07/15 5:01 pm
07/07/15 5:01 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,405
SLO County, CA
D.Bachtel Offline
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Looks good from here! How does it measure out?
Track, tow-in, lean. Do you have a picture from the rear we could see.

It's all a compromise but 3 out of 4 of your points look square to me.
The rear upper could be prone to rotate on the frame with that angle, I'd roll it over 90 degrees and shorten the strut.

Measure up, make some match marks on the fittings, take it for a spin and see if it shifts.
You're gunna like the way it rolls. What's the worst that could happen?






Don in Nipomo

Re: Saturdays Question [Re: D.Bachtel] #607645
07/07/15 6:15 pm
07/07/15 6:15 pm
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breeze1954 Offline OP
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Hi Don, thanks for the reply. I dont like the looks of it either, but not sure what to do with that rear mount. I tried other places but then nothing else would line up right. I guess I could cut the strut shorter so it would fit straight to the frame. That might work if I can still get on the kick start.
Anyway, I have it at; 11 7/8 frame to frame, 1/2" lean out and 3/8 toe in. The papers said 12 frame to frame but every time I tried for that everything else went nuts on me so Im going to hope it works there. Does that sound about right?

Nice setup ya got there by the way, love the tail light on the car, where's it from?


beerchug

Last edited by breeze1954; 07/07/15 6:17 pm.

Nothing ticks you off more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong!

Ride Safe When You Can; Tim

Small print Disclaimer: I am not responsible for spelling, grammar or political correctness. Actually Im not very responsible at all!
Re: Saturdays Question [Re: breeze1954] #607669
07/07/15 10:08 pm
07/07/15 10:08 pm
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SLO County, CA
D.Bachtel Offline
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What's the overall track width? Center of tug tire to center of tub tire.
Hey it looks good to me, you would have to shorten the strut to get that last point.
Take it out and see if it flexes much.

53-54 Dodge Meadowbrook, Plymouth Savoy on the taillight.
Got the focused backup on the front.




Don in Nipomo

Re: Saturdays Question [Re: D.Bachtel] #607705
07/08/15 7:20 am
07/08/15 7:20 am
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OZ
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I'm really enjoying this TRW outfit build thread, but that Greeves outfit is a bloody beauty!

Re: Saturdays Question [Re: D.Bachtel] #607722
07/08/15 9:44 am
07/08/15 9:44 am
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S.W. Pa.
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Morning Don, sorry but I got numbers backwards, its 3/8 lean out and 1/2" toe in. I also measured width this morning and its 42 1/2. I hadnt checked that before as none of my papers questioned it. Is there a proper width it should be? On the rear mount, Im thinking Ill try it out as is and if everything else works and handles good, then Ill shorten the strut so its straight to the frame. Dont want to cut anything till I know everything else will work as is. Straightening out that mount shouldnt change the rest I dont think.
BTW: are those donut marks I see in the picture clap


beerchug


Nothing ticks you off more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong!

Ride Safe When You Can; Tim

Small print Disclaimer: I am not responsible for spelling, grammar or political correctness. Actually Im not very responsible at all!
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