Hi guys i am restoring perhaps my 6th bike but my first british bike - A65 with a T140 forks. I've a well equipped home workshop of tools for the japanese bikes i've done along with assorted sundries - metric everything!
What i really want to know is are all the nuts and bolts on my bike likely to be whitworth sizes and if so what of the threads as it seems there are different types - BSW BSF and BSC?
I ask because i'd like to order an assortment so i can replace as i go but obvioulsy want to buy the write ones! QM
Wrench sizes is one issue, hardware replacement another. Hardware on the T140 front end will be Unified, which has the same wrench sizes, bolt diameters, and thread densities as SAE or "American" (I don't know what you call it over there - oh yeah, Unified). One thing though, the Unified thread form is slightly different from SAE.
On the engine (also '65 I assume) you're going to find a lot of CEI hardware, mostly 1/4" X 26 tpi, 5/16" X 26 tpi, and 3/8" by 26 tpi. For this hardware you will need a set of British wrenches. They may be marked "BS" or "Whitworth", or both.
You might drive yourself crazy trying to amass "an assortment". If you buy hardware from a parts supplier, ordering by part number, just buy a few extras of whatever you order. Over here we have an outlet called "British Tools and Fasteners", from whom you can buy hardware by diameter, thread density, length, etc., AND they have British thread gauges - along with Metric and SAE thread gauges, an invaluable tool if you decide to buy hardware by spec. I don't know if you have such a place over there, or if you might consider sourcing overseas.
As said, generally UNF on the forks and CEI (aka 'Cycle' and 'BSC' - British Standard Cycle) on the frame.
As not mentioned so far, BSF (British Standard Fine) on the engine, and the forks drain plugs are 2BA (not interchangeable with either 3/16"UNF, No.10UNF or M5 (5 mm. metric)).
UNF- (and UNC-) threaded fasteners use "AF"-marked tools; in the same way as metric, the measurement refers to Across Flats of the head.
Otoh, Cycle, BSF and BA tools are marked with the shank diameter; e.g. 5/16"UNF, 5/16"Cycle and 5/16"BSF bolts all have the same shank diameter, but a 5/16"UNF bolt will require a 1/2"AF spanner while the Cycle and BSF bolts will require a spanner marked (usually) "5/16 BS" (but not "5/16 W" (5/16" Whitworth)).
This is before you get into 'small hex.' heads ...
Originally Posted By queenmonkey
i'd like to order an assortment so i can replace as i go
What you might need to accept is the easiest way to buy "an assortment" is to buy 'buckets' of fasteners in the appropriate threadforms from a stainless steel fastener supplier. Afaict, old British vehicle restorers are now the largest users of especially Cycle and BSF fasteners and most old British vehicle restorers want stainless.
Unfortunately, this can lead to quality issues. By definition, then stainless Cycle and BSF fasteners have cut, rather than rolled, threads. From long experience, I know that people like Dave & Richard Middleton have the necessary machine tools to turn out high-quality cut threads and they supply some other smaller stainless retailers. But some others make their own Imperial fasteners, and the quality is ... uh ... variable.
The alternative is to collect the fasteners that come off the bike and, when you have a bucket-load, get 'em tumbled and zinc-plated.
I would strongly recommend that you invest in a set of screwpitch gauges (e.g. http://stainlessmiddleton.co.uk/content/11-which-thread and scroll down) and, if you don't have it/them already, a way of accurately measuring fastener shank diameters - at least a decent steel rule but micrometer or calipers are better. If you don't already, keep an eye on your local Lidl and Aldi stores, they do inexpensive but good-quality tools regularly. Note that, in addition to the thread chart on the Middletons' site, you can find more comprehensive ones through your preferred internet search engine.
I would also recommend acquiring some taps and dies for the threads - to start with, say, 2BA, 1/4"UNF and 5/16"UNF, 1/4"Cycle, 5/16"Cycle and 3/8"Cycle, and 5/16" BSF. Reason is, mainly, you're dealing with 35-year-old threads on the forks and 50-year-old threads on the rest of the bike, some swarf is bound to have collected in particularly blind holes ... but mainly you're dealing with the depredations of mainly d.p.o. If you get into the habit of running a tap with a bit of grease on the end into each threaded hole, you will 99%-certain be staggered at the amount of general crap - mainly old sealants - that comes out on the end of it. Otoh, if you simply push new fasteners into holes you haven't cleaned first, you will do some damage at some point, guaranteed.
Finally, bookmark http://stainlessbits.com/link12.html, you'll find it an invaluable reference. Only thing to watch is, because the compiler was American, sometimes he gets small threads wrong - e.g. specifying No.10UNF ("10-32" in the US) instead of the correct 2BA.
Oh god what have i done??!! and i thought buying a British Project had the advatage of being simpler, if only the availability of parts? I've inherited boxes of my old uncles tools (relaegated to the back of the workshop) so i think there going to come in handy - this includes taps and dies in WD boxes, me thinks i'm going to have to pull them out from the back of the workshop and dust them down!
Guys a big 'thank you' for your advice (especially you Stuart) i will follow it. I'm also thinking that i going to befriend the chaps as Anglian Fasteners (large fastener shop in my home town) into joining me in thread identification. QM
but think of the fun you'll have when your "expert" neighbor comes over. you hold up what looks like a 9/16 wrench then tell him it's a 1/4. Then your #0 socket will be about ten mm and the #10 socket will be about one mm.
Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers) "It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)
69 bonney 72 commando 75 commando interstate 06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance couple of beesas a ducati and the Snake Bike
BTW--the company that compiled the stainlessbits listings no longer exists. The website could disappear at any moment. My advice would be to download it (and for belt and braces also print it off) while it is still around. HTH