Hi guys, I have a BSA B44 441 cc. My situation right is someone converted the original frame into a hard tail by welding those 45 degree hardtail cross bars to the original swingarm. The frame in general is way to small I feel, there's not even any room to put an airfilter on my carb. I wanted to replace the entire frame. I've found BSA hard tail frames for larger BSA's like the a50/a60 but can't find one specific for my engine. I'm in san diego, California, anyone know where I could buy a frame or have one fabricated ?
I have noticed a lot of inquiries like this recently. I have a question:
British motorcycle engineers spent a lot of time developing a decent rear suspension to give your bike a decent quality of ride that wouldn't jar your teeth loose. So, knowing that, WHY would you want to step back to 1930 technology with a rigid rear frame, have a harsh, lousy ride, and also devalue your bike as a result?
no but I do get your point. It would be much easier and cheaper to hunt down a rear frame loop and put it back to normal. Anyone know where I could find one of those? the ones on eBay look pretty screwed up, and I'd prefer to find one with the mounting tabs and all that for the shocks seat, as well as the support cross bars. Getting a freshly fabricated one would be better.
hey I found a nice frame on craigslist for a bsa. The frame number is A50B6321. The guy thinks its from a 65 lightening but isn't sure. I looked it up here, but can't match up the frame sequence number. Its a frame for either a 500 or 650 cc engine, while my engine is a 441 victor. Do you think my engine would be compatible with a frame like that and have the right look? tks
I guess I don't quite understand what you're looking for... what does put back to normal mean to you? You're talking about finding a BSA hardtail frame, then you say you want a "rear loop" (?) with shock mounts.
I may have a good stock 441 orphan frame that I'd sell cheap, if that is what you're looking for?
Re: BSA bobber hard tail frame for B44 441cc
#594117 04/08/1511:21 pm04/08/1511:21 pm
B44 of B25 stock frames are a dime a dozen. It is hard to give them away. Problem is that shipping is a pain and costs more than the frame.
If you want a bigger rigid frame no doubt you can put a 441 motor in it. Just how much work do you want to do? Won't be a bolt in job! And the right look? That would be up to your tastes. I doubt you'd want a motor surrounded by lots of empty space in a frame, like you just poked it into a larger frame. What ever look you are looking for all the parts should look to be in harmony, like they were designed to be together. Not look cobbled together.
I once rescued a C15 from a lost soul who tried to convert it into a bobber. Perhaps a bobber for a midget. Oh well.
I'm slowly figuring all this out and it turns out what I have now is a 441cc engine, mounted on a bsa frame for a 250cc model. The frame number is C1546469. That's why I have no space for an airfilter, its put on with a rubber elbow off to the side. As I said the guy hardtailed it by removing the subframe and mounting the cross bars off the swing arm. This is my first bike and now that I'm developing an eye for this stuff, I know it looks like shit. Not just because the swingarm/hardtail but because I also have those bars just below the swing arm where the passenger footpegs used to be mounted, so there are no clean lines at all.
So it looks like finding a proper bobber/hardtail frame for the bike isn't going to happen because they're all made for 500/650cc engines. That would also probably mean I'd have to buy bigger tires and new front forks to make it look right, at that point I'd might as well buy a new bike.
Everyone is telling me to find the subframe, or rear frame loop as its sometimes called, which holds the seat and mounts the top of the shocks. Here are the options:
A. I could find an entirely new frame made for the b44 engine, with the subframe already attached. But would that also mean I would have to buy new front forks and bigger tires? It would be helpful if I knew how big the tires and forks are on a b44 to figure that out.
B. Just stick with the little 250cc bsa frame i have now, since I already know the mounting tabs and all that lines up perfectly, despite the frame being too small for the engine, and just find the proper corresponding 250 cc subframe.
Here is a possible solution for you. This belongs to a friend of mine in Vista, not too far away from you. He is asking too much, but it has been available for a long time, and could probably be had for less. This is a "gooseneck" type frame, very similar to yours but a competition (S) version, that doesn't have the goofy rear footpeg holders. Also has the full size forks and wheels (19 front, 18 rear)...don't know what size you currently have, some C15 models came with 17.
Same guy also has a 441 roller in about the same shape and price... do an eBay search for his other items. Another possibility, and you wouldn't have an aircleaner fitment problem. Much stronger frame.
Either one will involve some work. Either one is probably preferable to what you have.
Same guy also has a 441 roller in about the same shape and price... do an ebay search for his other items. Another possibility, and you wouldn't have an aircleaner fitment problem. Much stronger frame.
The A50 and A65 are twin cylinder motors, the 441 is a single, big difference in the frames and everything else. Watch eBay and Craigs list. Try running and ad in Craig's list. The 250/441 frames a fairly common. I have picked up three 441 frames in the last year for $100 each. Before you put any money in the bike, I would check with the state on getting a title. If you do not have one it can be a pain and if you start swapping engines and frames, then you are talking an assembler's title. Jeff
Not sure about California but a lot of states, Texas being one, title off the frame number. They don't even look at the engine number. I have a non-matching numbers Trident that uses its 74 frame number for the title. So if you buy a frame, wise to get one with a title or be prepared to go through the lost title process.
Here in Michigan the Frame, Motor and transmission numbers need to all match or they can impound the bike. If they do not match then you need to get a assembled title. Be prepare to show with receipts were all major components came from, motor, frame, tranny, front end, wheels, seat etc. Lost title is a real pain, I have done 16 in the last couple of years. ( All Barn finds) 1. Fill out form where and how you got bike. 2. Must have receipt. 3. turn in for state & Federal check for stolen or liens. 4. turn in copy of Dealer or NADA appraisal(NADA is too High) 5. Pay fee and tax on which ever is higher. Get title 6. Value over $2500, you are screwed. 7. Now must post Cash Surety Bond for 3 years at 2x value. 8. Another form, Pay to have local Law Enforcement check VIN. 9. And if they are having a bad day, LEO check running and all equipment working. Get title 10 Assembled is like above, but must verify were each major part came from. Jeff
Here in Jooooisey only the frame number is important--the rest are irrelevant from the viewpoint of titling. So that part is easier. BUT--the rest is much more difficult--if not downright impossible. The first time I tried to title a barn find --quite a few years ago (it was a BSA) I called the special section in DMV at Trenton (the State capital). I explained the situation: the guy at State gave me a list of 12 pieces of paper necessary to get a title. Two of them concerned exhaust emissions. I explained that it was an old bike before exhaust emission regulations. "Ah--in that case you have to get a letter from the manufacturer confirming that" " But the manufacturer went bust in 1972" " In that case I am sorry--I can't help you"---and put the phone down on me. Little wonder that us Joooisey guys have to resort to other means to title barn finds.
I explained that it was an old bike before exhaust emission regulations. "Ah--in that case you have to get a letter from the manufacturer confirming that" " But the manufacturer went bust in 1972" " In that case I am sorry--I can't help you"---and put the phone down on me. Little wonder that us Joooisey guys have to resort to other means to title barn finds.
That's not just a Joisey phenomenon - it's true anywhere where you have low-wage drones running a desk. A certain percentage of those guys ONLY want to get you to go away and quit bothering them; don't you understand they have a DMV to run? They haven't got time for you ..
To solve this, I do all this kind of thing face to face, and I keep trying until I find a decent clerk who will actually try to help me solve my problem, like in their job description.
Good results so far.
I'm like super lazy today. It's like normal lazy, but I'm wearing a cape.
I didn't even consider title issues. The best way to go about this is to just find a bolt on subframe and not complicate my life anymore that it already is. Found a few on eBay that would work perfect like this one. You can see everything is bolt on.
Here's a pic of my swingarm. I was thinking the subframe bolted one here by unscrewing the bolts... or maybe there is a bracket for it im missing that goes between the bolt and the spindle. what do you think?
See that A65 in my avatar? I had it in a hardtail frame for ten years. Sharp-looking bike, if I do say so myself, but the ride was brutal. And I had a 13"-wide La Para solo seat with five-inch springs under it. All those little shots you take may not hurt at the time, but they have a cumulative effect. The only part of that project I don't regret is that I learned a lot about fabrication.
Awwwww.....ya'll leave the fellow alone. He wants a hard tail bobber...help a brother out here.
I will say that the way the bike is set up now it looks like an ass eater. BUTT....level the seat some and add a cut down rear fender and it might just work.
There is a SLIM pancake filter that would fit in there...I don't have one but I've seen them.
Mark Z's bobber.....man that was a sweet bike.
I've been hanging out on another brand/model bike site and they are HUGH into hardtail bobbers with that model...not my cup of tea but I can understand it. Hell what a boring world it'd be if we all rode around on the same bike.
I don't think you are going to find anything that will just bolt on....not for what you have. If it were me, I'd try working with what you have instead. There are a lot of things I like aout that bike the way it is.
A small bobber on UNIT SINGLEFRAME HMMMMM. I've got a unit single frame that I've wanted to give away. I can see it. A spooked up B44 engine in a bobber for a Sunday ride thru the beach towns. Why not. If I want a longer ride, I have more than one bike. I was never a true purist.
Re: BSA bobber hard tail frame for B44 441cc
#596568 04/25/1511:02 am04/25/1511:02 am
Gordon, nice looking bike. But every time I see one of these bikes set up this way without rear fender and the small seat. It sends chills up my back. When I was a little kid back on the lane where we used to live, in the day of the Schwinn Orange and Apple crate style bicycles. One of the local teens on the lane had removed the rear fender and replaced the Banana seat with a short seat. As normal he was showing off, popping a few wheelies etc. When all of a sudden he slipped and came down on the rear tire. As was his custom has had on his old cotton shorts. To make a long story short, the whole neighborhood got to watch as the Fire Department removed the rear tire to extract his family jewels from the tight area between the rear tire and the frame. I do not ever recall Jim riding a bike after that. I can only imagine what motorcycle could do. Jeff