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#592971 - 04/01/15 10:16 am NHT small bolt pattern head-ID?  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,253
Dave Comeau Offline
Crew Chief
Dave Comeau  Offline

Crew Chief

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,253
Hamilton, Mass. USA
I've taken on a job for a friend to get his manxman going. In partial trade I get some parts. I was to receive a supposed basket case 650SS engine. Now in my possession, the head/barrel lump is a 8 fin 500 with a smooth side head, medium fin, 20 degree EXH port, with 1-5/8" manifold bolt pattern. This is the first head like this I have seen. Of course here in the US we have very few pre commando bikes except atlas.

looks like this head , which is a 1-1/2" bolt spacing:

http://atlanticgreen.com/images/NHTheadMDFN.jpg

BUT This new head is definitely 1-5/8"

What is the time frame for this head? 1960 and after???

thanks Dave


dynodave
BSA 3 1961-1963
Ducati 3 1992-2002
Norton many 1951-1975
87 Serv-Equip 100HP MC brake dynamometer,
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#593051 - 04/01/15 10:24 pm Re: NHT small bolt pattern head-ID? [Re: Dave Comeau]  
Joined: Aug 2001
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Rohan Online content
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Rohan  Online Content
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Posts: 1,923
Oztralia
7mb, and not even a very good view of it - can't see the inlet ports, finning, valves or combustion chamber.
And its not even the head you are asking about !!
Must be April 1st....

#593080 - 04/02/15 8:02 am Re: NHT small bolt pattern head-ID? [Re: Dave Comeau]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,253
Dave Comeau Offline
Crew Chief
Dave Comeau  Offline

Crew Chief

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,253
Hamilton, Mass. USA
I'm looking for some who knows MORE than me. This pix shows the finning pattern and every one knows this is a 1.4" In and 1.3" EX. If you don't know this, than I doubt you have enough knowledge in this area. If you don't have anything to add i.e. years of use, it is OK to not make comments.

These heads are identical except the 1-1/2" or 1-5/8" bolt spacing.
smooth side head, no picket fence
medium finning in EXH area, shown exceptionally well in PIX this is KEY to ID this head.
20 degree EXH port,
with 1-5/8" manifold bolt pattern

I'm guessing used til end of production 88 not ss, 99(and SS) 650 not ss
60-63 ?
61-63 ?
62-63 ?
other


dynodave
BSA 3 1961-1963
Ducati 3 1992-2002
Norton many 1951-1975
87 Serv-Equip 100HP MC brake dynamometer,
#593118 - 04/02/15 12:37 pm Re: NHT small bolt pattern head-ID? [Re: Dave Comeau]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,923
Rohan Online content
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Rohan  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,923
Oztralia
So this is not an April Fools day ??

Your pic shows an M in the casting number, does the head in question ?

I'd have about a dozen dommie cylinder heads in my collection, and since what ye ask about doesn't match any of them, clearly its some other variant. Of which there seem to be many. Not having a sideview to compare to assembled engines/bikes makes it less than optimal to identify from your pic - a topview (only) of a head isn't very a very common view to compare diagnostic features on others' assembled bikes either !

Since it doesn't have downdraft inlet ports (? can't really tell from pic) it has to be pre the SS models.

If you, the moderator no less, don't know how to resize photos down to a simple screenshot size, we can give lessons.
I knew your pic was big, it was slow to load - slow server somewhere ?
A pic with good detail doesn't need to be more than 200 or 300 kb, this one is under 200kb...
http://s12.postimg.org/h0p954yh9/Head_resized.jpg
Thats 40 times smaller...



#593198 - 04/02/15 6:58 pm Re: NHT small bolt pattern head-ID? [Re: Dave Comeau]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,923
Rohan Online content
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Rohan  Online Content
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Oztralia
P.S. While we have your attention on cylinder heads, there is an error on your page on them.
This was mentioned by a few folks some time back, but hasn't trickled through to any updates yet.

You state "This third head is from a model 88 (500cc) version that started about 1955. This aluminum casting is also marked with # T2225 M above the intake rocker cover. It is cosmetically/visually the same as the previous iron head. ".

In fact its not identical, a study of the finning in the front of the alloy head would shows that it has slightly more fin area, and a slightly different form. So they certainly weren't cast from the same molds.
A recent pic on the NOC website shows the different (front) finning.
http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-chat...-head-front-jpg

There is also the minor matter that strictly speaking, BSF is not a Whitworth thread form,
almost your opening line on your page.

Accuracy is everything.....

#593206 - 04/02/15 7:42 pm Re: NHT small bolt pattern head-ID? [Re: Dave Comeau]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,923
Rohan Online content
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Rohan  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,923
Oztralia
PPS Seems this question was relatively recently answered on the NOC website.
Where it seems you also posed this question. And got about the same answer...
http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-chat/technical2-heavy-twins-forum/858507678

#593244 - 04/03/15 12:08 am Re: NHT small bolt pattern head-ID? [Re: Dave Comeau]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,253
Dave Comeau Offline
Crew Chief
Dave Comeau  Offline

Crew Chief

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,253
Hamilton, Mass. USA
Accuracy is everything.....BSF is not a Whitworth thread form

My machinery hand book 14th edition shows same whitworth thread profile formula for both BSF and BSW.

ON NOC Phil answered my question.

For the norton enthusiasts:
In conclusion the two heads I have are the same casting and machining except for the manifold bolt spacing.
FWIW T2225 is not a head identifier, but I call it the skull mold #. There are two different heads with t2225 on top but different bottom molds. Each individual Norton heads has probably over a dozen mold subcomponents.

Back to head work, I have 4 on the bench including the FullAuto

Last edited by Dave Comeau; 04/03/15 10:45 am.

dynodave
BSA 3 1961-1963
Ducati 3 1992-2002
Norton many 1951-1975
87 Serv-Equip 100HP MC brake dynamometer,
#593354 - 04/03/15 7:08 pm Re: NHT small bolt pattern head-ID? [Re: Dave Comeau]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,923
Rohan Online content
BritBike Forum member
Rohan  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,923
Oztralia
Any possibility of a correction to your webpage on heads,
on early alloy twin heads NOT being the same as the iron heads. ?

Moderator added..
your words above

My words=It is cosmetically/visually the same as the previous iron head.
nothing to correct IMO
END

Originally Posted By Dave Comeau

My machinery hand book 14th edition shows same whitworth thread profile formula for both BSF and BSW.


Must be an american handbook ?
BSF and Whitworth were two different thread systems,
even if they shared the same thread profiles.

We note your question was also answered sometime back on the NOC, several times.
The twin carb manifold manifold also, including some discussion somewhere from Skip, even if he didn't realise the significance at the time.
http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-chat...dited-1-web.jpg

Last edited by Dave Comeau; 04/04/15 8:36 am.

Moderated by  Dave Comeau 


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