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Indian made fuel tank and girder fork #498061
07/17/13 9:24 am
07/17/13 9:24 am
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5
india
B
basu roy Offline OP
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basu roy  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5
india
Hii guys , Im from india and i recently came across this forum while searching for user feedback on indian made replica fuel tanks , girders and such products for british motors.

From what I have read on the web so far , it appears the products can be branded as mediocre at best. The reason im interested in them is coz im planning to start on a project myself and I was surprised to find than india is the only source on eBay/net which is supplying these parts for reasonable price(i understand high quality products are crafted in limited quantity in UK/US but they sometime cost more than the bike itself !!! ).

I would like feedack from those who have firsthand experience with these products from my country and if they are worth purchasing ?

im especially concerned about the girder fork , do u consider it safe to risk purchasing one ? i have so far been able to track down only 1 eBay store in delhi(they are ALL located in delhi , i have identified about 5 so far through eBay but 3 of them have no contact ID for indians which is weird and fishy).
I visited their store and inspected the fork , it was coated with primer making it hard for me to judge it but the texture of the metal felt very similar to the low quality cast iron one expects from a sewer cover . Being an indian , im more than familiar with how people tend to work here so it wont surprise me if this things break when i hit a bump at 60km/h.


anways , this post is to start a discussion about indian replica products in general . I have very less experience with bikes but u guys can feel free to ask me about indian stuffs.I have a good idea how metal craftsmen work here , how much it takes to craft them and things like that.

I recently purchased an enfield 350cc bullet from a military auction (2006 model) , im planning to do some custom work on it and these indian replica shops seem to be the only place on earth supplying the necessary product.


if admins allow posting links over here , i can post the link to the 2 sellers who seem to have some kind of adress/indentity on the web. the rest simply exist on eBay.com(not even on eBay.in).

I made copy post on the enfield page as well , admins please feel free to delete one of them which isnt attracting any attention.


royal enfield owner.
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Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498068
07/17/13 2:32 pm
07/17/13 2:32 pm
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 417
Australia
A
Adrian1 Offline
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 417
Australia
Check through the seller's feedback. Then email the people who bought the same item you are considing. Best way to get unbiased feedback!

Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498078
07/17/13 3:56 pm
07/17/13 3:56 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,481
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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U.S.
Originally Posted By: basu roy
it appears the products can be branded as mediocre at best...

Being an indian , im more than familiar with how people tend to work here so it wont surprise me if this things break...
This is a problem that is more the fault of the West than it is of India. Making many of the parts that are needed to restore/rebuild an old British bike is much more a matter of skilled labor and quality control than it is of having to invest in the latest manufacturing technology. India has the skilled labor and tools needed to fabricate excellent steel and Al tanks which, thanks to low labor costs, could be done less expensively than in the West. It also has more lax environmental regulations that, to the detriment of the health of the population, means that chrome plating and painting with high VOC pigments can be done as well as in the West, but for less money.

Given the above, the problem with having high quality Indian replacement parts (tanks, mudguards, fender braces, taillight assemblies, etc.) is that first a manufacturer has to establish itself as producing high quality, well fitting components. No doubt these will cost at least 25% more than what could be quickly cranked out by another shop down the road (with lower quality), so another problem is establishing brand identity. People would need to know they could trust that brand, while other brands remained a gamble.

The major problem to establishing a business in India based on producing only high quality parts, though, is that we in the West love cheap stuff. Although a large number of people claim they want high quality, many of them aren't actually willing to pay for it. Often this means they buy products that are 25% worse at a savings of only 5%. If this weren't the case Walmart wouldn't be the largest retailer in the world.

Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498093
07/17/13 6:50 pm
07/17/13 6:50 pm
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6
Wales
R
Rhodri Offline
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Rhodri  Offline
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R
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6
Wales
I have bought two Indian made fuel tanks, one for a Gold Star and one for a rigid B31. The cost was good, the postage obviously high to send to the UK, but the quality was very, very poor. Although the outside of the tank was clean, the inside of both were heavily rusted, why couldn't the rust have been cleaned off ? On the Gold Star tank, one side was larger than the other, because the u shaped saddle that fits over the top frame tube was badly formed. This is the foundation of the tank, if it is crooked how can the rest of the tank be shaped correctly ? The threads for the taps were very poorly formed. The filler neck is too big in diameter for the cap that is one of those with a large wing nut on top, possibly the neck is a "metric" piece of tube. The B31 tank had the forward mounting brackets different on each side, the rear stud holes in different positions on each side as well. The shape of the tank, at the front, is too forward, the underneath of the tank hits the rocker cover. The fuel cap is a different type, a locking one and that fits nicely.

I bought the Goldie one first, and informed the seller of my dissatisfaction, but took things no further. When I wanted the b31 tank I sought reassurances the things would be perfect. I was reassured and bought it. The heavy rust inside had been heavily coated with red primer,that smelled is if it was cellulose based and not a tank sealer. I was reimbursed the cost and the postage, and I still have the tank.

What a shame, if only the metal was cleaned and a proper jig made, and the fuel neck was the right size, these would be a cheap solution to tank replacement, everyone would be happy.

I need some Norton mudguards, they are advertised on eBay , but I can't risk it. Come on India, the external finish of the tanks was exemplary, how about the rest of it !!

Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498111
07/17/13 10:12 pm
07/17/13 10:12 pm
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5
india
B
basu roy Offline OP
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basu roy  Offline OP
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B
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5
india
people like these sellers will always take shortcut mainly coz the entire customer base is in foreign land and there isnt any chance of physical confrontation with the faulty product. they won't knowingly make a cracked girder but given the choice , they will always gamble on the riskier side.

the fuel tanks are hand crafted by beating the metal sheet over a block , no wonder they are so inaccurate.


personally i have decided to gamble on a fuel tank and a girder fork , it will cost me 20k inr which is roughly 350$(it prolly cost them 100$ to make both). Will keep u guys updated on how the product is with pictures .


royal enfield owner.
Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498155
07/18/13 3:52 am
07/18/13 3:52 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,833
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

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Posts: 12,833
Central Virginia
I think the above is a good summary of some of the issues that come with "globalization" of products.

Our specification in the US and UK to the Asian manufacturers is always the same.

1) It must be cheaper than anything else.
2) It must cost less than the other guys.
3) If in doubt, refer to rules 1 and 2.

Quality? Pfft, who cares? Nothing about quality is in the specification. And you can't confront the seller personally - he's 10,000 miles away and he's got your money, sucka.

India is completely capable of making high-quality products. They've got tons of skilled labor, and they understand what will bring in the money. But they've been in business about 2000 years longer than we in the West, and if they can make a buck off of you the easy way, and you continue to sit still for it, they'll do it. If they realize that they will NOT make money unless the product actually does what it says on the tin ... well, they'll change ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498166
07/18/13 7:17 am
07/18/13 7:17 am
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,023
Christchurch NZ
R Moulding Offline
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R Moulding  Offline
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Posts: 2,023
Christchurch NZ

Even a hand beaten tank over a wooden buck can be made accurately, the unfortunate thing is that it takes time and money to make jigs and you need something to make them from. If you pick up a 40 year old knackered tank and bang it out straight, you need a complete bike to check it against before you use it as a basis for making new tanks.

Rod


So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498236
07/18/13 10:01 pm
07/18/13 10:01 pm
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5
india
B
basu roy Offline OP
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basu roy  Offline OP
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B
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5
india
called some stores again and also looked at the possibility of getting the girder crafted from steel under my supervision. I mentioned how people online are having doubts about the quality , one guy just disconnected but another talked to me over the phone and said while we cant expect OEM quality , the girder wont break on me when riding at 60km/h, he went on about how he has been in the business for 25 yrs bla bla bla.


royal enfield owner.
Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498307
07/19/13 6:01 pm
07/19/13 6:01 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,906
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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HawaiianTiger  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,906
Maui Hawaii
I've had two tanks and a set of mudguards from Tradesparesauto. They are what John Healy calls "usable lumps" That is, while the product appears to be what is desired, there will be some "adjusting" likely. I found the product to be a reasonable value for the money. This is the result of my purchases from them.
Not perfect, but for my purposes a bit more than good enough.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498311
07/19/13 6:26 pm
07/19/13 6:26 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,481
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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U.S.
Originally Posted By: basu roy
the girder wont break on me when riding at 60km/h, ... he has been in the business for 25 yrs
It's easy to stay in business for 25 years making faulty girder forks since none of the customers who had them break at 60km/h survive in order to complain...

Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: Magnetoman] #498327
07/19/13 9:02 pm
07/19/13 9:02 pm
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5
india
B
basu roy Offline OP
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basu roy  Offline OP
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B
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5
india
Originally Posted By: Magnetoman
Originally Posted By: basu roy
the girder wont break on me when riding at 60km/h, ... he has been in the business for 25 yrs
It's easy to stay in business for 25 years making faulty girder forks since none of the customers who had them break at 60km/h survive in order to complain...


lol ..

anways what do u guys suggest , should i go for it expecting suspect casting job ?

also i have never experienced a girder fork in my life and have no idea about them so some tips about things i should look out for while purchasing one ? also is the suspension and riding experience better than the factory telescopic fork or are they only good for aesthetic purpose ?


royal enfield owner.
Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: Magnetoman] #498345
07/20/13 5:04 am
07/20/13 5:04 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,014
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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DavidP  Offline

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Posts: 5,014
Gnashville
Originally Posted By: Magnetoman
It's easy to stay in business for 25 years making faulty girder forks since none of the customers who had them break at 60km/h survive in order to complain...

Yet, even in this country there are those who decry product liability laws as, "stifling industry."

That said, I just started a QC job with a metal fabrication firm. We make parts for Peterbilt trucks. I make decent money for insuring that Peterbilt will accept everything we send them. Casual observer might watch me walking about the factory looking at parts, filling out endless paperwork, and actually measuring holes, bends, spacing: he might see a waste of time and money. However, our customers can easily go elsewhere if we fail to supply the quality they demand.
It's a shame that we individual customers have fewer options.

Last edited by DavidP; 07/20/13 11:06 am.

Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498348
07/20/13 6:32 am
07/20/13 6:32 am
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 727
angeles city, rp
J
jaycee Offline
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Posts: 727
angeles city, rp
indian made girder forks sound positively frightening to me.but then im not exactly fearless in my old age.they might be good for a display piece.read an article about some fellas making them in uk a few years back in CLASSIC BIKE.it would seem that would be the prudent choice if a man actually wanted to ride the thing.i got burned by burton bike bits over some a65 mud guards ten years ago that went in the rubbish bin, total junk they were. for me to trust my life and limb on anything made in india just aint gonna happen.you do what you want,me id rather open my wallet than run an unnecessary risk

Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498361
07/20/13 8:37 am
07/20/13 8:37 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,481
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Posts: 4,481
U.S.
Originally Posted By: basu roy
anways what do u guys suggest , should i go for it expecting suspect casting job ?

also is the suspension and riding experience better than the factory telescopic fork or are they only good for aesthetic purpose ?
There are two issues that are partially interrelated, safety and manufacturing quality.

Safety: unlike a reproduction fuel tank that fits badly when it arrives and then starts leaking through rust holes after 100 miles, failure of the front forks is much more likely to have much more serious consequences for the rider.

Manufacturing quality: a girder fork has 8 bushings that all have to be accurately bored parallel with each other in order for the spindles not to at least partially bind, affecting the suspension. Further, bushings made of an appropriate grade of bronze need to be pressed into those 8 holes in the girders and reamed to give the proper clearance for the spindles -- too tight and they bind, too loose and rigidity is compromised. Those holes and bushings could be made with a simple drill press and drill bits and the forks would still "work" but, safety considerations aside, the riding experience wouldn't be anything like it would be with a properly made girder fork, which makes comparisons with telescopic forks moot.

Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #498369
07/20/13 9:48 am
07/20/13 9:48 am
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,632
UK Berks
A
AngloBike Online content
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UK Berks
http://www.jake-robbins-vintage-engineering.co.uk/

if it's a custom Enfield, then perhaps original ex-WD forks or US made "custom" forks for a bobber/chopper might be safer?

Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #583872
02/03/15 8:51 am
02/03/15 8:51 am
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 417
Australia
A
Adrian1 Offline
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Posts: 417
Australia
Guy on Facebook making these. Selling for $800. US based


http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b602/mundey1/imagejpg1_zps2d59b53b.jpg

Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: Adrian1] #583941
02/03/15 7:01 pm
02/03/15 7:01 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,028
Vermont
Jon W. Whitley Offline

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Jon W. Whitley  Offline

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Vermont
Hard to zoom in but looms like a light weight girder. Any other pics or links to pics ? Good to know there is another source !


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: Jon W. Whitley] #584469
02/07/15 6:39 pm
02/07/15 6:39 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,721
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted By Jon W. Whitley
Hard to zoom in but looms like a light weight girder. Any other pics or links to pics ? Good to know there is another source !


That looks like it's for a chopper or bobber. A skilled hobbyist builder using a heavy duty drill press,lathe and welder could build a girder like that. Tooling and materials might be 300 bucks.
I see custom chopper girders at swap meets and on eBay .Many are worn and have extended tubes. But some are good and if necessary the tubes can be shortened,steering stems changed.
If you want a girder that looks like and vintage Brit Bike then there's not much choice...?


I ride junk
Re: Indian made fuel tank and girder fork [Re: basu roy] #584495
02/07/15 9:42 pm
02/07/15 9:42 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,661
Elburn, Ill. USA
I
Irish Swede Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,661
Elburn, Ill. USA
A girder fork with stock length, rake and proper bushing clearances is a joy to ride, but MUST be kept lubricated to avoid wear.
Steering is very positive. It goes where you aim it and does not have the "flex" which happens
with some hydraulic forks.

If someone is making replicas, correct in every way, then "go with it," if you want a vintage or custom look. But make certain it is built right.


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