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Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor #562453
09/09/14 4:59 pm
09/09/14 4:59 pm
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 89
the wilderness
old-grizz Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
old-grizz  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 89
the wilderness
Forks. BSA. 441. Victor. I am SURE this has been covered in this forum before, but I cannot find the right combination of key words and tricky phrases to make the search engine pay off. Can anyone provide a starting point for finding info on swapping/changing/upgrading Victor front forks from the stock items? Ceriani? Yamaha? Oneida? Others?

Any and all help appreciated. Many thanks - O.G.

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Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #562474
09/09/14 7:47 pm
09/09/14 7:47 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,854
The Northwoods... Michigan
Steve Erickson Online content
BritBike Forum member
Steve Erickson  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,854
The Northwoods... Michigan
Use Google instead. Put in one or two of your key words (Ceriani 441), followed by Britbike.com. That will get you going, change words as needed. Easier than the search engine here.

Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #562522
09/10/14 8:19 am
09/10/14 8:19 am
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 351
Oslo Norway
P
Per B Offline
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Per B  Offline
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P
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 351
Oslo Norway
Well, I have a late B44 fork with Marzocchi damper rod on Goldi Scrambler, its not a sraight fit and you need a lath to it. The damping is still pretty basic and I am not satisfied with it.

Racetech is selling a version of their damper valve for the B44 http://racetech.com/ProductSearch/1/BSA/Victor%20441/65-70 , its probably better than change to any of the damper you mention above. I will try a Ractech conversion next time I have the fork off,

Last edited by Per B; 09/10/14 8:24 am.

best regards

Per
Goldi Clubmans
Goldi Scrambler
Rob North R3
OIF A65
Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #562525
09/10/14 9:10 am
09/10/14 9:10 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 921
Jaffrey, NH, USA
Peter Quick Offline

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Peter Quick  Offline

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Posts: 921
Jaffrey, NH, USA
I've put Ceriani forks and Betor forks on B44s and similar framed unit singles. They definitely improve the suspension and riding experience anywhere the roads are less than smooth. Problem is that none are a simple swap. Issues such as steering stem length and diameter, bearings and races, ball bearing vs tapered bearings, steering stops on the frame will need to be heavily altered or added, what wheel to use, how to adapt the wheel spindle and spacers to the chosen forks, and so on. Now I usually recommend finding a complete front end you like (forks & wheel) and then you just have to adapt how it mounts to the headstock. Of course you have to find forks that are the correct length and look for the bike. Just wish there was a magic upgrade to make the old Victor forks dampen alot better even with their limited travel.


Peter


check out: www.bsaunitsingles.com
2500 BSA part numbers with inventory in stock just for the unit singles!
Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #562529
09/10/14 9:57 am
09/10/14 9:57 am
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 89
the wilderness
old-grizz Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
old-grizz  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 89
the wilderness
Thanks, all, for the input:

Steve - wow - didn't know one could access the data that way via Google. One lives, one learns!!

Per B - thanks for the steer to RaceTech - I will keep them in mind.

Per B and Peter - I appreciate your advice on difficulty. Without having the units side-by-side for comparison, I had no good idea of difficulty. I have always heard people say " . . . and I replaced the BSA forks with Cerianis . . . " and assumed maybe it wasn't all that difficult. ( I am pretty good with a wrench, but not so much with machining. Also very reluctant to hire out my work. USA Hillbilly mentality, I suppose.)

Anyway - I will keep your guidance in mind. If I progress down this path, I will post back some photos and info to the forum.

Thanks again!!

-O.G.

Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #562532
09/10/14 10:58 am
09/10/14 10:58 am
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline

BritBike Forum member
Alex  Offline

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
O.G.: Click on and read the "Advanced Search Tips" link in the search window of the britbike search. It works! Google works as well. Just put in site:britbike.com before your search terms and it will only search the britibike site.

I have a set of Betor forks off a can-am on my C15 MX bike and have to say these are a great improvement over the rod damper forks. One advantage of these is that you can adjust the rake. As stated above, though, you need a lathe to adapt them properly. I can provide details if needed.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: Per B] #562562
09/10/14 3:51 pm
09/10/14 3:51 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 190
Sverige
Pelle Offline
BritBike Forum member
Pelle  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 190
Sverige
Originally Posted By: Per B
Racetech is selling a version of their damper valve for the B44


Racetech's general description of how the valve is fitted seems to be incompatible with a B44 fork, so there must be some adapter involved. Interesting stuff. Per, if you try these valves you must tell us!

Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: Peter Quick] #562576
09/10/14 4:59 pm
09/10/14 4:59 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,719
BC Canada
441/R3cafeSteve Offline
BritBike Forum member
441/R3cafeSteve  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,719
BC Canada
This is not a tip but....I use 30wt or 20wt regular oil LOL! little leaking and really stiffens up the front end. It will not break anything in an emergency where fork oil is not available and the 30wt works good in engine as well.
S


The 441, most versatile BSA of the 60's
Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: 441/R3cafeSteve] #569276
10/27/14 11:37 am
10/27/14 11:37 am
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Yorkshire
K
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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K
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Yorkshire
Hi O.G.

I had the same thing on my Victor GP a few years ago. I first tried some CZ MX forks but they bottomed out too much for me (I am 15-1/2 stone so need something substantial). I then got a pair of 35mm Ceriani with matching yokes, these were a bit better but still a bit light weight for me. Then tried a pair of late BSA/Triumph 4 bolt forks. These worked great with no problems at all and I was completely happy.

I do have a lathe but I don't remember having to do much to fit any of the above forks apart from the odd shim or spacer.

Hope this helps,

Keith.

Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #569285
10/27/14 1:00 pm
10/27/14 1:00 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,232
Scotland
kommando Offline
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kommando  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,232
Scotland
I have adapted clones of Racetech valves to B44 forks, the Racetech scheme is flawed in that there is no internal spring to hold the valve down against the top of the damper body which is they way they do it in other forks. It also does not seal on the OD so oil is not directed into the valve. My alternative is to mount the valve on the end of an alloy rod screwed into the top fork nut and with a custom OD with groove for a X ring all the oil goes through the valve. It acts very well as an anti dive and also gets rid of a 1/4" first movement no damping zone plus increases the damping at low fork movement speeds when you need it and release the increased damping on fast deflections. I also turn one of the valves upside down to act as a rebound damper and change the port sizes so one valve give the same damping as 2 valves. So one leg on the brake side give compression damping with anti dive and rebound damping on the non brake side. The point at which the damping changes from high to low is adjustable by removing the fork top nuts.

Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #569394
10/28/14 7:57 am
10/28/14 7:57 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 921
Jaffrey, NH, USA
Peter Quick Offline

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Peter Quick  Offline

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Posts: 921
Jaffrey, NH, USA
kommando, These are for the damper rod type forks correct? If so I have more questions.

Peter


check out: www.bsaunitsingles.com
2500 BSA part numbers with inventory in stock just for the unit singles!
Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #569415
10/28/14 10:57 am
10/28/14 10:57 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,232
Scotland
kommando Offline
BritBike Forum member
kommando  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,232
Scotland
Yes Peter they are for damper forks also but it also fits pre damper B series and the later Shuttle Valve with less work needed. PM me for more info.

Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #569423
10/28/14 12:41 pm
10/28/14 12:41 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,308
SE Ohio
No Name Man Offline

Life member
No Name Man  Offline

Life member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,308
SE Ohio
So Keith...when you say "4 bolt" do you mean the axle clamp bolts? And what wheel and brake did you use?
Thanks,

Bill E


69 A65T
71 B50T
85 K100RS
54/59 A10SR
69 B44VS
71 A65FS
95 Trident
Too much moderation is bad for you.

Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #569584
10/29/14 11:54 am
10/29/14 11:54 am
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 443
S.E. Ohio
H
HillbillyBarr Offline
BritBike Forum member
HillbillyBarr  Offline
BritBike Forum member
H
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 443
S.E. Ohio
I've got 2 Victors with Cerranni forks both use the Arces triple trees. They use the cerranni adjustable stem. Makes the bikes handle real well even in some quick dirt ridin. Both are the 35mm tubes. One thing is you gotta find a front wheel to fit the axle size.

Bill did you ever ride my 69 Victor?

Hillbilly

Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #569587
10/29/14 12:23 pm
10/29/14 12:23 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,308
SE Ohio
No Name Man Offline

Life member
No Name Man  Offline

Life member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,308
SE Ohio
Well, I rode the one in my barn...didn't change the sprocket. Several things made it unsuitable for the road. New wheels and knobbies. Headed for the dirt. Definitely need upgraded forks.


69 A65T
71 B50T
85 K100RS
54/59 A10SR
69 B44VS
71 A65FS
95 Trident
Too much moderation is bad for you.

Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: old-grizz] #569596
10/29/14 2:44 pm
10/29/14 2:44 pm
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 443
S.E. Ohio
H
HillbillyBarr Offline
BritBike Forum member
HillbillyBarr  Offline
BritBike Forum member
H
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 443
S.E. Ohio
Nah I meant my 69 with the cerranni forks. I just went out to the shop and both Victors have the original balls and race setup. The Arces set on top and below the BSA races.

Re: Fork Upgrade - 441 Victor [Re: No Name Man] #569619
10/29/14 6:18 pm
10/29/14 6:18 pm
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Yorkshire
K
Keith Offline
BritBike Forum member
Keith  Offline
BritBike Forum member
K
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Yorkshire
Originally Posted By: No Name Man
So Keith...when you say "4 bolt" do you mean the axle clamp bolts? And what wheel and brake did you use?
Thanks,

Bill E


Hi Bill,

Yes the 4 bolt bottom cap ones. I used the original GP wheel with shims and spacers to suit. As I had to make a torque arm and drill a hole in the brake plate to fit it I didn't use my original brake plate as the GP one is unique with extra strengtheners on it.

I have a B25 Scrambler that has the same forks (with Falcon rear shocks) and I can honestly say it is the best handling off road bike that I have ever ridden. Neither I nor anyone else who has ridden it can fault it. (and I'm still 16 stone).

Keith.



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